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Radiation from antennae - a new philosophy
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
snip I understand it has no rest math. But where does the mass come from? There has to be mass to exert pressure. Does the mass just appear from nowhere? I doubt it... This is rather circular, but... It comes from the energy of the photon and the energy of the photon comes from whatever created the photon. Specificially it come from the energy-momnetum relation. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_in_special_relativity Look at the paragraph labled: The relativistic energy-momentum equation. One way to look at it is that relativistic mass is not a real mass but an effect that is equivelant to a mass. If you really want to have something to wonder about, read up on tachyon fields and imaginary mass: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyonic_field -- Jim Pennino |
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Radiation from antennae - a new philosophy
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#4
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Radiation from antennae - a new philosophy
On 10/9/2014 5:14 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/9/2014 1:04 PM, rickman wrote: The only mass a photon has is that which is equivalent to its energy, E = mc^2. I understand it has no rest math. But where does the mass come from? There has to be mass to exert pressure. Does the mass just appear from nowhere? I doubt it... When a proton is accelerated and the mass quadruples, where does that extra mass come from? -- Rick |
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Radiation from antennae - a new philosophy
rickman wrote:
On 10/9/2014 5:14 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 10/9/2014 1:04 PM, rickman wrote: The only mass a photon has is that which is equivalent to its energy, E = mc^2. I understand it has no rest math. But where does the mass come from? There has to be mass to exert pressure. Does the mass just appear from nowhere? I doubt it... When a proton is accelerated and the mass quadruples, where does that extra mass come from? Photons are not accelerated; they either exist and are travelling at the speed of light (in the medium) or they don't exist. And before you ask, the speed change in the local frame due to a change in medium is instantaneous, which would be impossible if they had rest mass. -- Jim Pennino |
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Radiation from antennae - a new philosophy
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#7
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Radiation from antennae - a new philosophy
On 10/9/2014 7:04 PM, rickman wrote:
On 10/9/2014 5:14 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 10/9/2014 1:04 PM, rickman wrote: The only mass a photon has is that which is equivalent to its energy, E = mc^2. I understand it has no rest math. But where does the mass come from? There has to be mass to exert pressure. Does the mass just appear from nowhere? I doubt it... When a proton is accelerated and the mass quadruples, where does that extra mass come from? It comes from the energy used in the acceleration of the proton, based on Einstein's equations. Mass and energy are just different manifestations of the same thing. But by definition, anything moving at the speed of light must be massless, because it takes an infinite amount of energy to accelerate even an electron to that speed. Which means a photon cannot have mass. -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle ================== |
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Radiation from antennae - a new philosophy
On 10/9/2014 9:15 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/9/2014 7:04 PM, rickman wrote: On 10/9/2014 5:14 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 10/9/2014 1:04 PM, rickman wrote: The only mass a photon has is that which is equivalent to its energy, E = mc^2. I understand it has no rest math. But where does the mass come from? There has to be mass to exert pressure. Does the mass just appear from nowhere? I doubt it... When a proton is accelerated and the mass quadruples, where does that extra mass come from? It comes from the energy used in the acceleration of the proton, based on Einstein's equations. Mass and energy are just different manifestations of the same thing. So why do you have trouble understanding where the relativistic mass of a photon comes from? Is the exact same thing but without the rest mass. But by definition, anything moving at the speed of light must be massless, because it takes an infinite amount of energy to accelerate even an electron to that speed. Which means a photon cannot have mass. Yes, it has no *rest mass*. The rest mass is what limits the acceleration. You are thinking in a circle and you can't seem to get out of the loop. Rest mass vs. relativistic mass. One is present even at rest while the other is a result of the energy added as a function of its speed. -- Rick |
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Radiation from antennae - a new philosophy
On 10/9/2014 9:56 PM, rickman wrote:
On 10/9/2014 9:15 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 10/9/2014 7:04 PM, rickman wrote: On 10/9/2014 5:14 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 10/9/2014 1:04 PM, rickman wrote: The only mass a photon has is that which is equivalent to its energy, E = mc^2. I understand it has no rest math. But where does the mass come from? There has to be mass to exert pressure. Does the mass just appear from nowhere? I doubt it... When a proton is accelerated and the mass quadruples, where does that extra mass come from? It comes from the energy used in the acceleration of the proton, based on Einstein's equations. Mass and energy are just different manifestations of the same thing. So why do you have trouble understanding where the relativistic mass of a photon comes from? Is the exact same thing but without the rest mass. But if it's moving at the speed of light, it can't have any mass. Einstein did not differentiate between rest mass and relativistic mass. But by definition, anything moving at the speed of light must be massless, because it takes an infinite amount of energy to accelerate even an electron to that speed. Which means a photon cannot have mass. Yes, it has no *rest mass*. The rest mass is what limits the acceleration. You are thinking in a circle and you can't seem to get out of the loop. Rest mass vs. relativistic mass. One is present even at rest while the other is a result of the energy added as a function of its speed. No, I'm not thinking in circles. According to Einstein, mass is mass. -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle ================== |
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Radiation from antennae - a new philosophy
On 10/9/2014 10:03 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/9/2014 9:56 PM, rickman wrote: On 10/9/2014 9:15 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 10/9/2014 7:04 PM, rickman wrote: On 10/9/2014 5:14 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 10/9/2014 1:04 PM, rickman wrote: The only mass a photon has is that which is equivalent to its energy, E = mc^2. I understand it has no rest math. But where does the mass come from? There has to be mass to exert pressure. Does the mass just appear from nowhere? I doubt it... When a proton is accelerated and the mass quadruples, where does that extra mass come from? It comes from the energy used in the acceleration of the proton, based on Einstein's equations. Mass and energy are just different manifestations of the same thing. So why do you have trouble understanding where the relativistic mass of a photon comes from? Is the exact same thing but without the rest mass. But if it's moving at the speed of light, it can't have any mass. Einstein did not differentiate between rest mass and relativistic mass. Now you are smoking dope... But by definition, anything moving at the speed of light must be massless, because it takes an infinite amount of energy to accelerate even an electron to that speed. Which means a photon cannot have mass. Yes, it has no *rest mass*. The rest mass is what limits the acceleration. You are thinking in a circle and you can't seem to get out of the loop. Rest mass vs. relativistic mass. One is present even at rest while the other is a result of the energy added as a function of its speed. No, I'm not thinking in circles. According to Einstein, mass is mass. If you say so. -- Rick |
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