Jerry Stuckle wrote in news:m3nrfk$dii$1@dont-
email.me:

In general, you can *refer* to another company's trademark, but you
can't *use* their trademark in a competing way (see below).


That's how I understand it, but Yamaha are very particular about syntax.
That's why I'm asking them directly, because that way I might get two things:
better clarification (because their web page details use of 'YAMAHA', but not
of 'DX7'), and perhaps even some slack (as written permission) regarding
their usual rules, if they decide my use is not in conflict, but co-
operation, which it is, being essentially a matter of interoperability. When
I make my own synthesiser ideas public, beyond emulation of theirs, it will
have its own name, which is already chosen, unless I think of a better one.

On 11/9/2014 11:05 AM, Lostgallifreyan wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote in news:m3nrfk$dii$1@dont-
email.me:

In general, you can *refer* to another company's trademark, but you
can't *use* their trademark in a competing way (see below).


That's how I understand it, but Yamaha are very particular about syntax.
That's why I'm asking them directly, because that way I might get two things:
better clarification (because their web page details use of 'YAMAHA', but not
of 'DX7'), and perhaps even some slack (as written permission) regarding
their usual rules, if they decide my use is not in conflict, but co-
operation, which it is, being essentially a matter of interoperability. When
I make my own synthesiser ideas public, beyond emulation of theirs, it will
have its own name, which is already chosen, unless I think of a better one.

If you have a question about the exact nature of the trademark, go to
the USPTO and see who has a trademark on DX7. They have a search on
their web site. Not as easy to use as google, but it does work. Yamaha
has no more claim to the trademark than what is registered.

I did a quick search and found nothing. I did get hits on RX7 though,
so I was using it correctly. Looks like DX7 is not trademarked in the
US at least. You'll have to figure out how to do the search in the EU.

--

Rick

rickman wrote in :

If you have a question about the exact nature of the trademark, go to
the USPTO and see who has a trademark on DX7. They have a search on
their web site. Not as easy to use as google, but it does work. Yamaha
has no more claim to the trademark than what is registered.

I did a quick search and found nothing. I did get hits on RX7 though,
so I was using it correctly. Looks like DX7 is not trademarked in the
US at least. You'll have to figure out how to do the search in the EU.


I'll give it a go. I did look at some trademark searcher recently (probaly
not a very good one), ans also drew blanks on 'DX7' possibly due to
miunderstanding how to find it. Thing is, suppose Yamaha take exception? It
may not cut much ice with them if I say I did an online trademark search
instead of asking them personally. Even if they never reply, I have a
written record of having asked.

On 11/9/2014 11:57 AM, Lostgallifreyan wrote:
rickman wrote in :

If you have a question about the exact nature of the trademark, go to
the USPTO and see who has a trademark on DX7. They have a search on
their web site. Not as easy to use as google, but it does work. Yamaha
has no more claim to the trademark than what is registered.

I did a quick search and found nothing. I did get hits on RX7 though,
so I was using it correctly. Looks like DX7 is not trademarked in the
US at least. You'll have to figure out how to do the search in the EU.


I'll give it a go. I did look at some trademark searcher recently (probaly
not a very good one), ans also drew blanks on 'DX7' possibly due to
miunderstanding how to find it. Thing is, suppose Yamaha take exception? It
may not cut much ice with them if I say I did an online trademark search
instead of asking them personally. Even if they never reply, I have a
written record of having asked.

If they have not registered the trademark in the US they can't complain
in the US that you are violating anything. You can also search on
Yamaha and it will show all trademarks they own. But I'm sure they
don't have a trademark on DX7.

--

Rick

rickman wrote in :

If they have not registered the trademark in the US they can't complain
in the US that you are violating anything. You can also search on
Yamaha and it will show all trademarks they own. But I'm sure they
don't have a trademark on DX7.


I'm in the UK, but I'll assume it may not differ much. You may be right,
they may not keep a trademark on that name, they may have dropped it the
moment they started with SY77, TG77 and SY00, th e'second generation' FM
synths. It just seems weird to me though, because as you say, it being their
first great success in FM, they might want to keep it in case of some big
revival. So I ask them. I can think of no better course of action, other than
to bounce ideas off people whose opinions are worth hearing. I'm doing ok
here. I got more useful responses to my ideas here than any other place
I've tried. The people I know in 'real life' have not been able to suggest
anything. I've held off sounding out the people most likely to be interested
in my work so far though, because I don't want to give away too many clues to
what may be the most shark-infested water out there. Besides, I can make
my instrument even without them, what I cannot do alone is figure out the
best protection for it, and any honest professional familiar with patents and
such may be as good as I'll find short of paying a lawyer. And if I do, I
want to know what to tell them to save time...

Lostgallifreyan wrote in
:

SY00

SY99. typo....

On 11/9/2014 12:41 PM, Lostgallifreyan wrote:
rickman wrote in :

If they have not registered the trademark in the US they can't complain
in the US that you are violating anything. You can also search on
Yamaha and it will show all trademarks they own. But I'm sure they
don't have a trademark on DX7.


I'm in the UK, but I'll assume it may not differ much. You may be right,
they may not keep a trademark on that name, they may have dropped it the
moment they started with SY77, TG77 and SY00, th e'second generation' FM
synths. It just seems weird to me though, because as you say, it being their
first great success in FM, they might want to keep it in case of some big
revival. So I ask them. I can think of no better course of action, other than
to bounce ideas off people whose opinions are worth hearing. I'm doing ok
here. I got more useful responses to my ideas here than any other place
I've tried. The people I know in 'real life' have not been able to suggest
anything. I've held off sounding out the people most likely to be interested
in my work so far though, because I don't want to give away too many clues to
what may be the most shark-infested water out there. Besides, I can make
my instrument even without them, what I cannot do alone is figure out the
best protection for it, and any honest professional familiar with patents and
such may be as good as I'll find short of paying a lawyer. And if I do, I
want to know what to tell them to save time...

Instead of speculating you could do some research. I checked for all
trademarks under the name Yamaha and none of those trademarks show up.
I did find 'SY' and 'TG' alone as well as 'SY/TG' and 'DX for TG'... all
dead. Also, each of these were logos and not just text.

--

Rick

rickman wrote in :

Instead of speculating you could do some research.

I did. Tonight I looked at about 780 Yamaha trademarks registered now or at
soem past time in the EU. Nothing. Even so I'm waiting for a while to see if
Yamaha reply. I want to know what they say as a basuc courtesy. If they say
nothing, I at least have it on record what I asked them, and that I tried to
contect them directly. In any dispute, that cuts a LOT of ice, as a legal
document.