Does anyone have a good link or design for a 6:1 balun ?

I bought some 420 cores and am stacking 2 of them to handle 1.5 kw. I
wound one using # 14 magnet wire and measuring the return loss showed
not too good of a match with a 300 ohm load.

I though the cores may not be what was advertised, so as a check I wound
a 4:1 and the RL was very good with a 200 ohm resistor. The 4:1 was
wound just on a single core. I had ordered 3 cores instead of just 2.

I later tried several other types using some small scrap wire and none
of the 6:1 seemed to work where a 4:1 would.

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On 7/22/2016 11:44 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:


Does anyone have a good link or design for a 6:1 balun ?

I bought some 420 cores and am stacking 2 of them to handle 1.5 kw. I
wound one using # 14 magnet wire and measuring the return loss showed
not too good of a match with a 300 ohm load.

I though the cores may not be what was advertised, so as a check I wound
a 4:1 and the RL was very good with a 200 ohm resistor. The 4:1 was
wound just on a single core. I had ordered 3 cores instead of just 2.

I later tried several other types using some small scrap wire and none
of the 6:1 seemed to work where a 4:1 would.

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http://www.spirat.com.au/vk5zvs/pic32.htm


This page shows one. Depending on your cores adjust the turns but not
the ratios.


http://tinyurl.com/zx7co7f

Mikek

In article , says...

On 7/22/2016 11:44 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:


Does anyone have a good link or design for a 6:1 balun ?


http://www.spirat.com.au/vk5zvs/pic32.htm


This page shows one. Depending on your cores adjust the turns but not
the ratios.


http://tinyurl.com/zx7co7f

Mikek

I saw that one. It looks to be for low power. One thing I did not
understand is why they used 3 windings in parallel. Seems like just a
waste of wire.

I know I should be able to use larger wire and a larger core as long as
the number of turns are the same.




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Ralph Mowery wrote:

In article , says...

On 7/22/2016 11:44 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:


Does anyone have a good link or design for a 6:1 balun ?


http://www.spirat.com.au/vk5zvs/pic32.htm


This page shows one. Depending on your cores adjust the turns but not
the ratios.


http://tinyurl.com/zx7co7f

Mikek

I saw that one. It looks to be for low power. One thing I did not
understand is why they used 3 windings in parallel. Seems like just a
waste of wire.

I know I should be able to use larger wire and a larger core as long as
the number of turns are the same.



Perhaps it is the same logic as Litz wire. I haven't done the
arithmetic, but if skin depth at the frequency of operation is
comparable with the radius of the wire, or less, then it might make
sense.

--

Roger Hayter

On 07/22/2016 12:44 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

Does anyone have a good link or design for a 6:1 balun ?


Hello, and are you sure of the required impedance ratio? What operating
frequency range (bandwidth) is required? The 6:1 ratio seems oddball
since in most practical applications integer-squared values suffice. A
6:1 broadband balun using tapered transmission lines (no ferrites
required) is realizable but I think the fabrication required is not
something most hams would want to tackle.

Having said all that a quick Google results in a number of hits
including how-to U-toob videos. Sincerely, and 73s from N4GGO,


--
J. B. Wood e-mail:

In article , says...

On 07/22/2016 12:44 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

Does anyone have a good link or design for a 6:1 balun ?


Hello, and are you sure of the required impedance ratio? What operating
frequency range (bandwidth) is required? The 6:1 ratio seems oddball
since in most practical applications integer-squared values suffice. A
6:1 broadband balun using tapered transmission lines (no ferrites
required) is realizable but I think the fabrication required is not
something most hams would want to tackle.

Having said all that a quick Google results in a number of hits
including how-to U-toob videos. Sincerely, and 73s from N4GGO,

Yes, I want a 6:1 balun. It is for an off center fed antenna that is up
around 50 to 60 feet. To be used from 80 to 10 meters. I have had one
up for a number of years and used a 4:1 bought balun that is suspose to
be good for 5 KW. It heats up and the SWR goes up after several minutes
of SSB usage with about 1200 watts. Works fine at 600 watts. My
research seems to incicate that at that height a 6:1 is a beter match.

I have seen a few that seem to use way too many turns for the core and
size of wire I am using (number 14 enamel type).

I tried one that had 2 windings of 11 turns and tapped at 9 turns and it
was not any good at all when I tested it.

Found another design that used 5 wires and 5 turns each. I am now in
the process of building it. Layed out on the bench hooked to a RLB it
looks good. So now to get it into a box and hooked to the antenna.

I built one using the same lengths of wire for field day and at 25 feet
the swr looks a lot beter than mine at 60 feet. Thought I would try a
6:1 as that is what some research seems to indicate at that height.

I agree, 6:1 does seem to be an odd ball number and info hard to come
by. I did see some info on one that used two seperate cores and the
winding on each core for a 4:1 and then paralled or something for the
6:1. I just did not like that design.

I don't think a tapered line would work over a broad range,and even if
it did, I would not want to try to build and use one.
Sort of comes under the open wire feeders. I just would not want to use
them due to getting the feeders into the shack.



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On 07/25/2016 10:10 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

I don't think a tapered line would work over a broad range,and even if
it did, I would not want to try to build and use one.
Sort of comes under the open wire feeders. I just would not want to use
them due to getting the feeders into the shack.


Hello, and again, while not advocating these for ham use, decades ago
J.W. Duncan and V.P. Minerva in the February, 1960 issue of Proceedings
of the IRE described a hundred-to-one bandwidth tapered-line balun. The
one constructed for the article provided for interfacing a 50-ohm coax
to a 15O ohm open wire line. VSWR never exceeded 1.25 from 43 MHz to
2200 MHz (50:1 bandwidth). Sincerely,


--
J. B. Wood e-mail:

On Monday, July 25, 2016 at 6:55:50 AM UTC-4, J.B. Wood wrote:
On 07/22/2016 12:44 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

Does anyone have a good link or design for a 6:1 balun ?


Hello, and are you sure of the required impedance ratio? What operating
frequency range (bandwidth) is required? The 6:1 ratio seems oddball
since in most practical applications integer-squared values suffice. A
6:1 broadband balun using tapered transmission lines (no ferrites
required) is realizable but I think the fabrication required is not
something most hams would want to tackle.

Having said all that a quick Google results in a number of hits
including how-to U-toob videos. Sincerely, and 73s from N4GGO,


--
J. B. Wood e-mail:

300 Ohms is the typical impedance of a folded dipole at it's resonant frequency. I converted a used Terminated Folded Dipole to a simple folded dipole by removing the termination resister and the 12 to 1 balun. I used an SGC antenna coupler with it with great success. I wanted to use the build in antenna tuner in my Yaesu FT-1000 with it but that was futile until I bought a 6 to 1 balun and connected it to the antenna with 300 Ohm window line. Now the built in tuner has no trouble obtaining a match from 160 to 6 Meters. I was told by many on an antenna usenet group that I could use a 4-1 balun and 450 ohm ladder line rather than bothering with the 300 ohm stuff and the 6 to 1 balun. In each case using the 450 LL and the 4-1 balun both separately and together the internal tuner would fail to match the load on many frequencies. Once I changed to a complete match at resonance the internal tuner could manage the rest.

--
Tom

On 7/25/2016 9:10 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...

On 07/22/2016 12:44 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

Does anyone have a good link or design for a 6:1 balun ?


Hello, and are you sure of the required impedance ratio? What operating
frequency range (bandwidth) is required? The 6:1 ratio seems oddball
since in most practical applications integer-squared values suffice. A
6:1 broadband balun using tapered transmission lines (no ferrites
required) is realizable but I think the fabrication required is not
something most hams would want to tackle.

Having said all that a quick Google results in a number of hits
including how-to U-toob videos. Sincerely, and 73s from N4GGO,

Yes, I want a 6:1 balun. It is for an off center fed antenna that is up
around 50 to 60 feet. To be used from 80 to 10 meters. I have had one
up for a number of years and used a 4:1 bought balun that is suspose to
be good for 5 KW. It heats up and the SWR goes up after several minutes
of SSB usage with about 1200 watts. Works fine at 600 watts. My
research seems to incicate that at that height a 6:1 is a beter match.

I have seen a few that seem to use way too many turns for the core and
size of wire I am using (number 14 enamel type).

I tried one that had 2 windings of 11 turns and tapped at 9 turns and it
was not any good at all when I tested it.

Found another design that used 5 wires and 5 turns each. I am now in
the process of building it. Layed out on the bench hooked to a RLB it
looks good. So now to get it into a box and hooked to the antenna.

I built one using the same lengths of wire for field day and at 25 feet
the swr looks a lot beter than mine at 60 feet. Thought I would try a
6:1 as that is what some research seems to indicate at that height.

I agree, 6:1 does seem to be an odd ball number and info hard to come
by. I did see some info on one that used two seperate cores and the
winding on each core for a 4:1 and then paralled or something for the
6:1. I just did not like that design.

I don't think a tapered line would work over a broad range,and even if
it did, I would not want to try to build and use one.
Sort of comes under the open wire feeders. I just would not want to use
them due to getting the feeders into the shack.

I don't understand. The antenna is 300 ohms from 80 to 10 meters? This
boggles the mind.

In article t,
Ralph Mowery wrote:

Yes, I want a 6:1 balun. It is for an off center fed antenna that is up
around 50 to 60 feet. To be used from 80 to 10 meters. I have had one
up for a number of years and used a 4:1 bought balun that is suspose to
be good for 5 KW. It heats up and the SWR goes up after several minutes
of SSB usage with about 1200 watts. Works fine at 600 watts. My
research seems to incicate that at that height a 6:1 is a beter match.

Since the feedpoint impedance of an OCF is a function of the feedpoint
location (how far off-center it is), could you reduce the impedance
towards 200 ohms and use a 4:1 balun by simply moving the feedpoint
some distance towards the center?