Fractal antennas ... turned out to be useless. That's how I understand it.
It is not a myth, as someone here said it. Drawing "fractal dipole" is shown
in "Antennas for all applications" - there is such a book. It,
anecdotically, does not do you much of anything.
Looks fancy, that's it.

There were bunch of articles promising miracles, but it did not work
according to the promises, otherwise we would hear about it, see them
around.

Andrey



"AA" wrote in message
...
Yes. Drop me an e-mail and I'll be happy to provide details.

73,
Chip N1IR

Why? You posted the "commercial" claim in a public forum, please reply to
same. I simply would like to know....if such antennas are commercially
available, then please provide a URL or sales site with the information on
the
antennas. As an engineer, I am always interested in new/different
technology,
thus the desire to look at a commercial unit application. Or are you
getting
Shakespearian on me?

A

There were bunch of articles promising miracles, but it did not work
according to the promises, otherwise we would hear about it, see them
around.


Very interesting. Can you point out the citations of these articles promising
miracles?

Also, how often do you hear about bacon? Or the wonders of frozen food? At some
point, the new stuff mainstreams, and you won't hear as much about it:-) I, for
one, am very happy with the point that the technology has reached.

Let's see...British Columbia...hmmm...pipelines; hotels (you know where Banff
is, right?); farm inventory; coffee shops; retail stores; yadayada.

Look harder. You might learn something.

73,
Chip N1IR

"Fractenna" wrote in message
...
There were bunch of articles promising miracles, but it did not work
according to the promises, otherwise we would hear about it, see them
around.


Very interesting. Can you point out the citations of these articles
promising
miracles?

Let's do it differently: you point out single Cell phone, Wi-Fi or other
consumer gadget that uses Fractal antenna. Point out any other application
when the fractal antenna made difference.

What specific advantages you can achieve using fractal pattern? Increase
bandwidth to some degree, make it a bit smaller - it can be done in numerous
other ways. What else?

Let's turn to some empirics. Here is a website of the company claiming to be
inventors of Fractal Antenna: Fractal Antenna Systems.
http://www.fractalantenna.com/

They were making them since 1998 I guess, have patents, all that. Look at
the antennas (the antennas look beautiful, btw, like jewelry) - they can
make it for any applications. Yet we do not see those antennas. And it does
not look like the guys swim in money.

What does it tell us?

Andrey

"Fractenna" wrote in message
...
There were bunch of articles promising miracles, but it did not work
according to the promises, otherwise we would hear about it, see them
around.


Very interesting. Can you point out the citations of these articles
promising
miracles?

Let's do it differently: you point out single Cell phone, Wi-Fi or other
consumer gadget that uses Fractal antenna. Point out any other application
when the fractal antenna made difference.

What specific advantages you can achieve using fractal pattern? Increase
bandwidth to some degree, make it a bit smaller - it can be done in numerous
other ways. What else?

Let's turn to some empirics. Here is a website of the company claiming to be
inventors of Fractal Antenna: Fractal Antenna Systems.
http://www.fractalantenna.com/

They were making them since 1998 I guess, have patents, all that. Look at
the antennas (the antennas look beautiful, btw, like jewelry) - they can
make it for any applications. Yet we do not see those antennas. And it does
not look like the guys swim in money.

What does it tell us?

Andrey

It tells us that you are not seeking info; it tells us that you have an
agenda; it tells us that your interest has nothing to do with this NG:-)

Have a pleasant day there, eh?

73,
Chip N1IR

"Fractenna" wrote in message
...
There were bunch of articles promising miracles, but it did not work
according to the promises, otherwise we would hear about it, see them
around.


Very interesting. Can you point out the citations of these articles
promising
miracles?

Let's do it differently: you point out single Cell phone, Wi-Fi or other
consumer gadget that uses Fractal antenna. Point out any other application
when the fractal antenna made difference.

Of course I could. But, even I can be convinced that a NG is not the site for
commercial marketing, Andrey.

No reason to do it differently; I have invited you to make citations So...maybe
I and others will learn something?

I will be happy to briefly discuss the technology and not the commercial
products, however.

There is no question that in some single band cases, there are many different
solutions that will meet a highly compromised need. The value equation in
performance and cost, does, shall we say, benefit from the huge design space
available with fractal antenna designs in other circumstances. That is, 99% of
real needs.

The price of cell phone antennas has dropped from about $1.20USD to less than
$0.09USD in the last 8 years. Let's say that in high volume (and for a given
model, its actually not that high)the COGS is $0.06USD PU. Now pay the
insurance premiums that the brain cancer litigation issue--an ongoing one, I
might add-- adds. Suddenly, there's no reason to be in cell phones, unless you
want to have a high chance of going out of business--as many antenna companies
have; seems like one or two goes under every month or so. Obviously some folks
want to continue to take that risk.

I'm not going to provide a list for you of products on this NG: customers, from
my observation, want the emphasis to be on their product and not on a component
in that product. I certainly know of applications in those markets you
describe, in addition to emerging markets along those lines.

Of course, there is no reason why YOU can't spend some money and pop some tops.

Fractal antennas have made profound differences in the lives of many in the
last few years, through their unique benefits in: smaller size; widebandedness;
multibandedness; embedded/covert placement, control of observables; and so on.
The early adopters have embraced the technology, and wireless commercial sector
you allude to, after a very tough 2003, is coming back well.

So, you can see that the reality is very different from your statement. Or
maybe you can't see that, in which case you should listen to someone who knows
the reality.

I hope this helps. If you have commercial interests you know where to reach me
off NG. Otherwise, it all goes outside of the scope of this forum, doesn't it?

73,
Chip N1IR

s a website of the company claiming to be
inventors of Fractal Antenna: Fractal Antenna Systems.
http://www.fractalantenna.com/

And I asked for "publicly accessable" info from Herr Doktor....he gave me the
runaround; so, thank you for this link. Tho 25 bux for a reprinted article is
a tad high......one could post a PDF rather easily.

A

And I asked for "publicly accessable" info from Herr Doktor....he gave me the
runaround; so, thank you for this link. Tho 25 bux for a reprinted article
is
a tad high......one could post a PDF rather easily.

I gave you no runaround, sir. No one knows who you are, based upon your
insistence on anonymoty.

Professionals act like professionals and don't hide behind screennames.

I gave you the opportunity to take it off-line, and you have refused to do so.

So, let me offer you a second opportunity. Tell us who you are, and where you
work, on this NG, and I will be glad to answer your questions here.

73,
Chip N1IR

"Fractenna" wrote in message
...
And I asked for "publicly accessable" info from Herr Doktor....he gave me
the
runaround; so, thank you for this link. Tho 25 bux for a reprinted
article
is
a tad high......one could post a PDF rather easily.

I gave you no runaround, sir. No one knows who you are, based upon your
insistence on anonymoty.

Professionals act like professionals and don't hide behind screennames.

I gave you the opportunity to take it off-line, and you have refused to do
so.

So, let me offer you a second opportunity. Tell us who you are, and where
you
work, on this NG, and I will be glad to answer your questions here.

73,
Chip N1IR

I too would like to see the same information that Mr "A" is looking for.

I've looked at the Fractantenna web site and there is only marketing info
available.

Mark
M1MPW