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#1
August 8th 19, 05:45 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
 external usenet poster First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Aug 2013 Posts: 154
A question about two coils on one form

Hi all,
If you put two coils on one form, but wind one in the opposite
direction, Do the currents flow in opposite directions?

Mikek

PS. opposite winding direction as in clockwise or counter clockwise,
or like a left hand and right hand thread.

#2
August 9th 19, 02:06 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
 external usenet poster First recorded activity by RadioBanter: May 2011 Posts: 549
A question about two coils on one form

On 8/8/2019 11:45 AM, amdx wrote:
Hi all,
If you put two coils on one form, but wind one in the opposite
direction, Do the currents flow in opposite directions?

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Mikek

PS. opposite winding direction as in clockwise or counter clockwise,
Â*or like a left hand and right hand thread.

If it is a continuous coil with only two connections (start to finish)
but winding is reversed in the middle of the coil, the current does not
reverse.
#3
August 13th 19, 03:29 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
 external usenet poster First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Aug 2013 Posts: 154
A question about two coils on one form

On 8/9/2019 8:06 AM, John S wrote:
On 8/8/2019 11:45 AM, amdx wrote:
Hi all,
If you put two coils on one form, but wind one in the opposite
direction, Do the currents flow in opposite directions?

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Mikek

PS. opposite winding direction as in clockwise or counter clockwise,
Â*Â*or like a left hand and right hand thread.

If it is a continuous coil with only two connections (start to finish)
but winding is reversed in the middle of the coil, the current does not
reverse.

That wasn't what I ask, but since I posted I did put an answer
together. It took me several drawing to get to a final answer that makes
it so simple I don't know why I ask the question. I took me several
hours to come to the conclusion though.
My answer to your question would be, the current does reverse and for
your example, the current would be very low. Probably not zero because
of time/phase concerns.

I have one drawing showing a coil and the right hand rule that gives the

file:///C:/Users/Lamont/Dropbox/contra%20wound%20coil%20with%20flux%20and%20curren t%20flow.jpg

Mikek

#4
August 14th 19, 01:26 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
 external usenet poster First recorded activity by RadioBanter: May 2019 Posts: 15
A question about two coils on one form

On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 09:29:19 -0500, amdx wrote:

file:///C:/Users/Lamont/Dropbox/contra%20wound%20coil%20with%20flux%20and%20curren t%20flow.jpg

Errrrr... Uhhhhh... There's no way we can see a file on your personal computer.

#5
August 14th 19, 01:11 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
 external usenet poster First recorded activity by RadioBanter: May 2011 Posts: 549
A question about two coils on one form

On 8/13/2019 9:29 AM, amdx wrote:
On 8/9/2019 8:06 AM, John S wrote:
On 8/8/2019 11:45 AM, amdx wrote:
Hi all,
If you put two coils on one form, but wind one in the opposite
direction, Do the currents flow in opposite directions?

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Mikek

PS. opposite winding direction as in clockwise or counter clockwise,
Â*Â*or like a left hand and right hand thread.

If it is a continuous coil with only two connections (start to finish)
but winding is reversed in the middle of the coil, the current does
not reverse.

Â*That wasn't what I ask, but since I posted I did put an answer
together. It took me several drawing to get to a final answer that makes
it so simple I don't know why I ask the question. I took me several
hours to come to the conclusion though.
Â*My answer to your question would be, the current does reverse and for
your example, the current would be very low. Probably not zero because
of time/phase concerns.

I have one drawing showing a coil and the right hand rule that gives the

file:///C:/Users/Lamont/Dropbox/contra%20wound%20coil%20with%20flux%20and%20curren t%20flow.jpg

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Mikek

The current can not reverse in a series connection. But the magnet field
can reverse in the two series windings if one of the windings is reverse
wound.

#6
August 15th 19, 02:40 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
 external usenet poster First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Aug 2013 Posts: 154
A question about two coils on one form

On 8/13/2019 7:26 PM, Allodoxaphobia wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 09:29:19 -0500, amdx wrote:

file:///C:/Users/Lamont/Dropbox/contra%20wound%20coil%20with%20flux%20and%20curren t%20flow.jpg

Errrrr... Uhhhhh... There's no way we can see a file on your personal computer.

Thanks for pointing that out.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c4k2hh4syd...0flow.jpg?dl=0

Mikek

#7
August 15th 19, 02:46 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
 external usenet poster First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Aug 2013 Posts: 154
A question about two coils on one form

On 8/14/2019 7:11 AM, John S wrote:
On 8/13/2019 9:29 AM, amdx wrote:
On 8/9/2019 8:06 AM, John S wrote:
On 8/8/2019 11:45 AM, amdx wrote:
Hi all,
If you put two coils on one form, but wind one in the opposite
direction, Do the currents flow in opposite directions?

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Mikek

PS. opposite winding direction as in clockwise or counter clockwise,
Â*Â*or like a left hand and right hand thread.

If it is a continuous coil with only two connections (start to
finish) but winding is reversed in the middle of the coil, the
current does not reverse.

Â*Â*That wasn't what I ask, but since I posted I did put an answer
together. It took me several drawing to get to a final answer that
makes it so simple I don't know why I ask the question. I took me
several hours to come to the conclusion though.
Â*Â*My answer to your question would be, the current does reverse and
for your example, the current would be very low. Probably not zero
because of time/phase concerns.

I have one drawing showing a coil and the right hand rule that gives

file:///C:/Users/Lamont/Dropbox/contra%20wound%20coil%20with%20flux%20and%20curren t%20flow.jpg

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Mikek

The current can not reverse in a series connection. But the magnet field
can reverse in the two series windings if one of the windings is reverse
wound.

The coil(s) are put in an electromagnetic field, creating a magnetic
field around the coil. the magnetic field creates a current in each coil.
what is the direction of each of those currents?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c4k2hh4syd...0flow.jpg?dl=0

Mikek
PS, it took me hours to get this understood and now, it's like, well ya!

#8
August 15th 19, 08:41 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
 external usenet poster First recorded activity by RadioBanter: May 2011 Posts: 549
A question about two coils on one form

On 8/15/2019 8:46 AM, amdx wrote:
On 8/14/2019 7:11 AM, John S wrote:
On 8/13/2019 9:29 AM, amdx wrote:
On 8/9/2019 8:06 AM, John S wrote:
On 8/8/2019 11:45 AM, amdx wrote:
Hi all,
If you put two coils on one form, but wind one in the opposite
direction, Do the currents flow in opposite directions?

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Mikek

PS. opposite winding direction as in clockwise or counter clockwise,
Â*Â*or like a left hand and right hand thread.

If it is a continuous coil with only two connections (start to
finish) but winding is reversed in the middle of the coil, the
current does not reverse.

Â*Â*That wasn't what I ask, but since I posted I did put an answer
together. It took me several drawing to get to a final answer that
makes it so simple I don't know why I ask the question. I took me
several hours to come to the conclusion though.
Â*Â*My answer to your question would be, the current does reverse and
for your example, the current would be very low. Probably not zero
because of time/phase concerns.

I have one drawing showing a coil and the right hand rule that gives

file:///C:/Users/Lamont/Dropbox/contra%20wound%20coil%20with%20flux%20and%20curren t%20flow.jpg

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Mikek

The current can not reverse in a series connection. But the magnet
field can reverse in the two series windings if one of the windings is
reverse wound.

The coil(s) are put in an electromagnetic field, creating a magnetic
field around the coil. the magnetic field creates a current in each coil.
what is the direction of each of those currents?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c4k2hh4syd...0flow.jpg?dl=0

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â* Mikek
PS, it took me hours to get this understood and now, it's like, well ya!

Ok. You have all the answers so go with that. Good luck.
#9
August 20th 19, 12:12 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
 external usenet poster First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Aug 2013 Posts: 154
A question about two coils on one form

On 8/15/2019 2:41 PM, John S wrote:
On 8/15/2019 8:46 AM, amdx wrote:
On 8/14/2019 7:11 AM, John S wrote:
On 8/13/2019 9:29 AM, amdx wrote:
On 8/9/2019 8:06 AM, John S wrote:
On 8/8/2019 11:45 AM, amdx wrote:
Hi all,
If you put two coils on one form, but wind one in the opposite
direction, Do the currents flow in opposite directions?

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Mikek

PS. opposite winding direction as in clockwise or counter clockwise,
Â*Â*or like a left hand and right hand thread.

If it is a continuous coil with only two connections (start to
finish) but winding is reversed in the middle of the coil, the
current does not reverse.

Â*Â*That wasn't what I ask, but since I posted I did put an answer
together. It took me several drawing to get to a final answer that
makes it so simple I don't know why I ask the question. I took me
several hours to come to the conclusion though.
Â*Â*My answer to your question would be, the current does reverse and
for your example, the current would be very low. Probably not zero
because of time/phase concerns.

I have one drawing showing a coil and the right hand rule that gives

file:///C:/Users/Lamont/Dropbox/contra%20wound%20coil%20with%20flux%20and%20curren t%20flow.jpg

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Mikek

The current can not reverse in a series connection. But the magnet
field can reverse in the two series windings if one of the windings
is reverse wound.

The coil(s) are put in an electromagnetic field, creating a magnetic
field around the coil. the magnetic field creates a current in each coil.
what is the direction of each of those currents?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c4k2hh4syd...0flow.jpg?dl=0

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â* Mikek
PS, it took me hours to get this understood and now, it's like, well ya!

Ok. You have all the answers so go with that. Good luck.

That answer as stated makes me think you disagree. I would like to
have the conversation. Clearly is was a slog for me an I could easily
have something wrong.
I would say my strongest evidence would be that in order to make the
contracoil measure maximum inductance with a series connection, you
can't just connect the coils in the center and measure from the to
outside ends.
Please let me know what you think.
Mikek
#10
August 20th 19, 03:11 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
 external usenet poster First recorded activity by RadioBanter: May 2011 Posts: 549
A question about two coils on one form

On 8/19/2019 6:12 PM, amdx wrote:
On 8/15/2019 2:41 PM, John S wrote:
On 8/15/2019 8:46 AM, amdx wrote:
On 8/14/2019 7:11 AM, John S wrote:
On 8/13/2019 9:29 AM, amdx wrote:
On 8/9/2019 8:06 AM, John S wrote:
On 8/8/2019 11:45 AM, amdx wrote:
Hi all,
If you put two coils on one form, but wind one in the opposite
direction, Do the currents flow in opposite directions?

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Mikek

PS. opposite winding direction as in clockwise or counter clockwise,
Â*Â*or like a left hand and right hand thread.

If it is a continuous coil with only two connections (start to
finish) but winding is reversed in the middle of the coil, the
current does not reverse.

Â*Â*That wasn't what I ask, but since I posted I did put an answer
together. It took me several drawing to get to a final answer that
makes it so simple I don't know why I ask the question. I took me
several hours to come to the conclusion though.
Â*Â*My answer to your question would be, the current does reverse and
for your example, the current would be very low. Probably not zero
because of time/phase concerns.

I have one drawing showing a coil and the right hand rule that

file:///C:/Users/Lamont/Dropbox/contra%20wound%20coil%20with%20flux%20and%20curren t%20flow.jpg

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Mikek

The current can not reverse in a series connection. But the magnet
field can reverse in the two series windings if one of the windings
is reverse wound.

The coil(s) are put in an electromagnetic field, creating a magnetic
field around the coil. the magnetic field creates a current in each
coil.
what is the direction of each of those currents?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c4k2hh4syd...0flow.jpg?dl=0

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â* Mikek
PS, it took me hours to get this understood and now, it's like, well ya!

Ok. You have all the answers so go with that. Good luck.

Â*That answer as stated makes me think you disagree. I would like to
have the conversation. Clearly is was a slog for me an I could easily
have something wrong.
Â* I would say my strongest evidence would be that in order to make the
contracoil measure maximum inductance with a series connection, you
can't just connect the coils in the center and measure from the to
outside ends.
Â*Please let me know what you think.
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Mikek

Ok, Mike. Are you familiar with the phasing dots of transformers shown
on some symbols and schematics?

Wind a coil and put a dot at the start of the winding. Wind another coil
in the same direction as the first coil and put a dot at the start of
the second winding:

---.UUUUU---- ---.UUUUU---- (The phasing dots are periods)

Now connect the two closest ends together, and you get 4x the inductance
of one of the coils if you have perfect coupling.

Now rotate one of the coils 180 degrees and connect the closest ends
together:

---.UUUUU---- ----UUUUU.---

If you have perfect coupling, the inductance is zero.

I see no reason the have a contra-wound coil. And you don't have to
actually rotate the coil. By simply changing the connections you can
achieve the same thing as "contra-wound" coils.

BTW transformers and air-wound coils obey the same laws. The difference
between them is coupling factor and core losses.

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