Antennas vs Antennae
 

From Kraus' 'Antennas', first edition, footnote on page 1:

In its zoological sense, and antenna is the feeler, or organ of touch, of an
insect. According to usage in the United States the plural of "insect
antenna" is "antennae," but the plural of "radio antenna" is "antennas".
However, the usage in England makes no distinction, the plural of both
"insect" antenna" and "radio antenna" being "antennae."


************************

So for those not native to the USA or England, it depends on where your
English teaher came from, I guess.


Jim
N8EE

"Jim" wrote in message
...
From Kraus' 'Antennas', first edition, footnote on page 1:

In its zoological sense, and antenna is the feeler, or organ of touch, of
an
insect. According to usage in the United States the plural of "insect
antenna" is "antennae," but the plural of "radio antenna" is "antennas".
However, the usage in England makes no distinction, the plural of both
"insect" antenna" and "radio antenna" being "antennae."


************************

So for those not native to the USA or England, it depends on where your
English teaher came from, I guess.


Jim
N8EE

I think in England it's "aerials".
Rob

Jim wrote:
From Kraus' 'Antennas', first edition, footnote on page 1:

In its zoological sense, and antenna is the feeler, or organ of touch,
of an insect. According to usage in the United States the plural of
"insect antenna" is "antennae," but the plural of "radio antenna" is
"antennas". However, the usage in England makes no distinction, the
plural of both "insect" antenna" and "radio antenna" being "antennae."

But remember that was the *first* edition of Kraus, reflecting the usage
of a half-century ago.

At that time, the word over here was "aerial"; and also "wireless"
rather than "radio". "Antenna" was a new Americanism, and we hadn't
really decided what to do with it.

Individual preferences ruled quite strongly - and were very much
influenced by the preferences of one's former Latin master. I recall a
college friend who was determined to speak of "owdio" and "widayo",
because that's how he'd been taught to pronounce those words. "Antennae"
was just another of those Latinate plurals, but was never in wide use by
British engineers.

Today, we generally use the American terms for engineering (including
amateur radio) and save the Ancient British language for older people
and arts graduates.


--
73 from Ian G3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek

Often a word can be mispelled or used
in a generally unique or gramatically
incorrect manner when a tongue-in-cheek
reference is made. Hence: antennae vice
antennas. 73s and 88s W6BWY

Count your blessings if you see either one. The most grating plural of
antenna often seen on the net is "antenna's".

73--Nick, WA5BDU


Spike wrote:
Often a word can be mispelled or used
in a generally unique or gramatically
incorrect manner when a tongue-in-cheek
reference is made. Hence: antennae vice
antennas. 73s and 88s W6BWY

Nick: You are not paying attention. grin My personal favorite is
"antennaes"

73

Paul AB0SI


"Nick" wrote in message
oups.com...
Count your blessings if you see either one. The most grating plural of
antenna often seen on the net is "antenna's".

73--Nick, WA5BDU


Spike wrote:
Often a word can be mispelled or used
in a generally unique or gramatically
incorrect manner when a tongue-in-cheek
reference is made. Hence: antennae vice
antennas. 73s and 88s W6BWY

If the ARRL Handbook and other similar publications ever get
translated into Latin, antennae would be correct :-)

Omnia decum metrus solarium spottus est nihlis. Illegitimi
noncarborundum. Veni, vidi, vici contestum DXCCibus con
cannonium maximus.

W3JT


On 23 Dec 2004 10:32:10 -0800, "Nick" wrote:

Count your blessings if you see either one. The most grating plural of
antenna often seen on the net is "antenna's".

73--Nick, WA5BDU


Spike wrote:
Often a word can be mispelled or used
in a generally unique or gramatically
incorrect manner when a tongue-in-cheek
reference is made. Hence: antennae vice
antennas. 73s and 88s W6BWY

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:50:04 -0500, J. Teske
wrote:
Illegitimi noncarborundum
It is Non Illegitimus Carborundum

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:55:52 GMT, Richard Clark
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:50:04 -0500, J. Teske
wrote:
Illegitimi noncarborundum
It is Non Illegitimus Carborundum

Not if you have more than one *******! -us ending = singular.

"Non" refers to the verb and must be next to it, otherwise you have a
Latin equivalent of a split infinitive and we must always try to never
split infinitives. According to scholars the version you cited
(which admittedly is more often seen) came about when posters were
published years ago for comsumption by engineers and written by
engineers who should have stuck to Pig Latin...in which case it would
be:

Ontday etlay hetay astardsbay rindgay ouyay ownday. :-)

W3JT Who is pentalingual, but as you might guess none of the five is
Latin.

No it is Illegitimus non carborundum
"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:50:04 -0500, J. Teske
wrote:
Illegitimi noncarborundum
It is Non Illegitimus Carborundum

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:50:15 -0500, J. Teske
wrote:
According to scholars the version you cited
(which admittedly is more often seen) came about when posters were
published years ago for comsumption by engineers and written by
engineers who should have stuck to Pig Latin...

Hi OM,

Umm, not my source (although my cohort). Check with John Ciardi's
"Good Words to You." He follows you closer, but there is no
"noncarborundum." As many of John's entries derive from the military,
I bet this one does too (which is where I heard it first 35 years ago
anyway).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard Clark wrote:
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:50:04 -0500, J. Teske
wrote:

Illegitimi noncarborundum

It is Non Illegitimus Carborundum

It just depends on how many of the *******s there are, Richard! 8^)


- Mike KB3EIA -

J. Teske wrote:

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:55:52 GMT, Richard Clark
wrote:


On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:50:04 -0500, J. Teske
wrote:

Illegitimi noncarborundum

It is Non Illegitimus Carborundum


Not if you have more than one *******! -us ending = singular.

"Non" refers to the verb and must be next to it, otherwise you have a
Latin equivalent of a split infinitive and we must always try to never
split infinitives. According to scholars the version you cited
(which admittedly is more often seen) came about when posters were
published years ago for comsumption by engineers and written by
engineers who should have stuck to Pig Latin...in which case it would
be:

Ontday etlay hetay astardsbay rindgay ouyay ownday. :-)


I cana beata neone ina gama dominos.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Anyone willing to take on "data" and "datum?"

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 20:44:02 -0500, Mike Coslo
wrote:




I cana beata neone ina gama dominos.

I think I heard that one in one of my rare sojourns into a Catholic
Church in the old days.

I think the next line set the stakes"

"Dominos pro Nabiscos."

Jon W3JT

- Mike KB3EIA -

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 18:44:22 -0700, "Spike"
wrote:

Anyone willing to take on "data" and "datum?"

No!

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 01:02:20 GMT, Richard Clark
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:50:15 -0500, J. Teske
wrote:
According to scholars the version you cited
(which admittedly is more often seen) came about when posters were
published years ago for comsumption by engineers and written by
engineers who should have stuck to Pig Latin...

A googling will reveal several varients. A somewhat scholarly
discussion and a theory as to its origins can be found at
http://alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxillegi.html

I first heard it forty years ago when I was in college {English/French
major, not engineer}.

The discussion above credits General "Vinegar Joe" Stillwell as
popularizing the phrase when he gestingly took it as his motto.
The second time I heard it was from a famous cryptologist who actually
was on Stillwell's staff during WW II. [BTW I was a not-so-famous
cryptologist in my working life.]
The writer of the discussion attributes the phrase to British
Intelligence in WW II and having worked with these guys, I could
certainly believe it.

W3JT

Hi OM,

Umm, not my source (although my cohort). Check with John Ciardi's
"Good Words to You." He follows you closer, but there is no
"noncarborundum." As many of John's entries derive from the military,
I bet this one does too (which is where I heard it first 35 years ago
anyway).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

J. Teske wrote:
... we must always try to never split infinitives.

:-) good one. 73, Cecil, W5DXP


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Spike wrote:
Anyone willing to take on "data" and "datum?"


Too late - "data" have already been carborundumbed into the singular.


--
73 from Ian G3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek

Language corruption isn't always bad. Just a few nights ago I was
listening to the BBC World Service (rebroadcast here on public radio). A
(British) lady was expounding about the troubles of some American
government officials and their illegal-alien nannies. When asked if she
had a nanny, she hesitated, then said she did. And she added that any
revelation of impropriety on her behalf would be very "red-facening".

I thought it was, well, you know, like, whatever.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Ian White, G3SEK wrote:
Spike wrote:

Anyone willing to take on "data" and "datum?"


Too late - "data" have already been carborundumbed into the singular.

"Roy Lewallen" skrev i melding
...
Language corruption isn't always bad. Just a few nights ago I was
listening to the BBC World Service (rebroadcast here on public radio). A
(British) lady was expounding about the troubles of some American
government officials and their illegal-alien nannies. When asked if she
had a nanny, she hesitated, then said she did. And she added that any
revelation of impropriety on her behalf would be very "red-facening".

I thought it was, well, you know, like, whatever.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Ian White, G3SEK wrote:
Spike wrote:

Anyone willing to take on "data" and "datum?"


Too late - "data" have already been carborundumbed into the singular.


Opera vs.opus?

Alf

"Roy Lewallen" skrev i melding
...
Language corruption isn't always bad. Just a few nights ago I was
listening to the BBC World Service (rebroadcast here on public radio). A
(British) lady was expounding about the troubles of some American
government officials and their illegal-alien nannies. When asked if she
had a nanny, she hesitated, then said she did. And she added that any
revelation of impropriety on her behalf would be very "red-facening".

I thought it was, well, you know, like, whatever.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Ian White, G3SEK wrote:
Spike wrote:

Anyone willing to take on "data" and "datum?"


Too late - "data" have already been carborundumbed into the singular.

Or better: kollo vs. kolli

Alf

Roy Lewallen wrote:
Language corruption isn't always bad. Just a few nights ago I was
listening to the BBC World Service (rebroadcast here on public radio).
A (British) lady was expounding about the troubles of some American
government officials and their illegal-alien nannies. When asked if she
had a nanny, she hesitated, then said she did. And she added that any
revelation of impropriety on her behalf would be very "red-facening".

I thought it was, well, you know, like, whatever.

Any noun can be verbed. Any verb is subject to abusage.

Then there's The Adjectival Superlative of the Present Participle, as
overheard at a music festival the USA: "These are the dancingest folks."

But the booze writers surely cap it all. We've just been given something
that offers "a superbly sweet and peaty island experience on the nose"
and promises "a lingering peaty finale." It takes real artistry to write
like that... and much more nerve than I possess.


Happy Holidays!
--
73 from Ian G3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 11:01:13 +0100, "Alf Jacob Munthe"
wrote:


"Roy Lewallen" skrev i melding
...
Language corruption isn't always bad. Just a few nights ago I was
listening to the BBC World Service (rebroadcast here on public radio). A
(British) lady was expounding about the troubles of some American
government officials and their illegal-alien nannies. When asked if she
had a nanny, she hesitated, then said she did. And she added that any
revelation of impropriety on her behalf would be very "red-facening".

I thought it was, well, you know, like, whatever.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Ian White, G3SEK wrote:
Spike wrote:

Anyone willing to take on "data" and "datum?"


Too late - "data" have already been carborundumbed into the singular.


Opera vs.opus?

Oh that's an easy one. Opera is an alternate web browser and Opus is a
penguin.

Jon W3JT (who as a violinist in his other life could tell you more
about Opera and Opus than you would ever care to know. Kindly, he will
spare you this.)

Alf

How come I never saw the original post?

In any case, Antennas IS the PROPER Plural form of the word when used
in reference to: a metallic device (as a rod or wire) for sending out
or receiving radio waves.

Antennae is plural for the word when used in reference to an
arthropod.

Now if your Antenna is covered with growing mildew and moss, I guess
Antennae's would be the more appropos choice, hi hi.....

TTUL
Gary

Ian White, G3SEK wrote:

Roy Lewallen wrote:

Language corruption isn't always bad. Just a few nights ago I was
listening to the BBC World Service (rebroadcast here on public radio).
A (British) lady was expounding about the troubles of some American
government officials and their illegal-alien nannies. When asked if
she had a nanny, she hesitated, then said she did. And she added that
any revelation of impropriety on her behalf would be very "red-facening".

I thought it was, well, you know, like, whatever.

Any noun can be verbed. Any verb is subject to abusage.

Then there's The Adjectival Superlative of the Present Participle, as
overheard at a music festival the USA: "These are the dancingest folks."

But the booze writers surely cap it all. We've just been given something
that offers "a superbly sweet and peaty island experience on the nose"
and promises "a lingering peaty finale." It takes real artistry to write
like that... and much more nerve than I possess.

I wonder how many of them ate peat to find out what a "peaty finish"
was? Sounds like the tastage experience would be bad indeed.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Gary wrote:
In any case, Antennas IS the PROPER Plural form of the word...

If a word is used spelled or defined incorrectly by enough people for a long
enough period of time it likely will become considered by those who make the
rules to now be considered the correct usage spelling or definition and perhaps
by the time that this marathon of absolute correctness of usage thread ends the
word may well have in fact changed anyway and I hope you all have a gay Xmas.

BTW feel free to argue about the commas in my sentence... ;)

The real plural, from its Latin root is, "antennae".

The Latin word meant a yardarm for a sail, but in those
days sails were not square rigged but lateen types. Hence
it seemed a good analogy to use the word for feelers of insects.

(The etymological entymological derivation is thus not
the original)

Those who are ignorant about the English Language and its
etymology, especially the Yanks and nerdy types, have
introduced the erroneous plural, "antennas".

Language changes, but where an obvious error has been introduced
by the ignoramuses of this World, there is no harm in correcting
the error and using, "antennae" henceforth. Let those who are CBers
and CBers-Masquerading-As-Radio-Hams identify themselves by
continuing with the use of the uneducated errneous plural!

"Jim" wrote in message
...
From Kraus' 'Antennas', first edition, footnote on page 1:
In its zoological sense, and antenna is the feeler, or organ of touch, of
an
insect. According to usage in the United States the plural of "insect
antenna" is "antennae," but the plural of "radio antenna" is "antennas".
However, the usage in England makes no distinction, the plural of both
"insect" antenna" and "radio antenna" being "antennae."
************************
So for those not native to the USA or England, it depends on where your
English teaher came from, I guess.

And never start a sentence with a conjunction.

Don't never use double negatives.

A preposition is not something to end a sentence with.

Eschew obfuscation.

Single word sentences? Don't!

Even if a mixed metaphor sings, it should be derailed.

etc, etc.

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
J. Teske wrote:
... we must always try to never split infinitives.

:-) good one. 73, Cecil, W5DXP


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Datum - singular, data - plural. No difficulty there.

"Spike" wrote in message
...
Anyone willing to take on "data" and "datum?"

What do you call an Irishman who has been dead for 200 years?
Pete!

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
I wonder how many of them ate peat to find out what a "peaty finish"
was? Sounds like the tastage experience would be bad indeed.

No. Antennae is the proper plural.

Antennas is used by those who are ignorant about the
English language such as nerdy geeks and Yanks.

The OED gives "antennae" as the correct plural, with "antennas"
as an alternative.

"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." wrote in message
...
How come I never saw the original post?

In any case, Antennas IS the PROPER Plural form of the word when used
in reference to: a metallic device (as a rod or wire) for sending out
or receiving radio waves.

Antennae is plural for the word when used in reference to an
arthropod.

Now if your Antenna is covered with growing mildew and moss, I guess
Antennae's would be the more appropos choice, hi hi.....

TTUL
Gary

Which reminds me of that elaborate hoax using a
seemingly ancient earthenware jar with the Latin-like
motto on it, "ITI SAPIS POTANDA BIGONE"

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
I cana beata neone ina gama dominos.

Those who are ignorant about the English Language and its
etymology, especially the Yanks and nerdy types, have
introduced the erroneous plural, "antennas".

Lessee now...which side won the Revolution??? :-).
Which country has the most native speakers of English as the first
language?

54-40 or fight (Oops, wrong war)

As my college English philology teacher (a Brit) said:

"If the participle wants to dangle, let it dangle."

Jon W3JT (And this was written BEFORE I have had my Christmas morning
mimosa or rum soaked fruitcake.)

Merry Christmas to All (Even Brits)


"Jim" wrote in message
.. .
From Kraus' 'Antennas', first edition, footnote on page 1:
In its zoological sense, and antenna is the feeler, or organ of touch, of
an
insect. According to usage in the United States the plural of "insect
antenna" is "antennae," but the plural of "radio antenna" is "antennas".
However, the usage in England makes no distinction, the plural of both
"insect" antenna" and "radio antenna" being "antennae."
************************
So for those not native to the USA or England, it depends on where your
English teaher came from, I guess.

On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 13:30:36 -0000, "Airy R. Bean"
wrote:

The real plural, from its Latin root is, "antennae".

The original root is actually the translation of "horns of insects"
from Greek which predates the Roman invention of the term (used in the
sense of a sail's yardarm as you say) into Latin.

Those who are ignorant about the English Language

strikes the source. ;-)

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

England. Yanks do not speak English.

"J. Teske" wrote in message
...
Which country has the most native speakers of English as the first
language?

You need to discuss Ancient Greek and not Modern Greek.
AIUI, "Antennae" is not a word in the Greek style.
What was the word from which you say a translation occurred?

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 13:30:36 -0000, "Airy R. Bean"
wrote:

The real plural, from its Latin root is, "antennae".

The original root is actually the translation of "horns of insects"
from Greek which predates the Roman invention of the term (used in the
sense of a sail's yardarm as you say) into Latin.

Those who are ignorant about the English Language

strikes the source. ;-)

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 13:37:41 -0000, "Airy R. Bean"
wrote:

The OED gives "antennae" as the correct plural, with "antennas"
as an alternative.

The OED does not prescribe nor proscribe English, it describes it by
historical usage. For instance, the RF usage for antenna|e did not
enter the language until 1902 - the same time "aerial wire" appeared;
but whose adjective has since been promoted to the substantive when
radios(US 1915) became "wireless"(1904).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 17:14:06 -0000, "Airy R. Bean"
wrote:

You need to discuss Ancient Greek and not Modern Greek.

For Medieval Latin? Please note the usages.

AIUI, "Antennae" is not a word in the Greek style.
What was the word from which you say a translation occurred?

You want me to write Greek in ASCII? What a hoot.

Consult "A Concise Etymological Dictionary of Modern English," Ernest
Weekly, MA, of University College, Nottingham, 1924.

It is also so described in the OED.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

and simmer for several hours.
Serve on spaghetti.
Accompany with green salad, garlic bread and red wine.



Newborn Parmesan

This classic Sicilian cuisine can easily be turned into Eggplant Parmesan
If you are planning a vegetarian meal. Or you could just as well use veal -
after all, you have to be careful - Sicilians are touchy about their young
family members...

6 newborn or veal cutlets
Tomato gravy (see index)
4 cups mozzarella, 1cup parmesan, 1cup romano
Seasoned bread crumbs mixed with
parmesan
romano
salt
pepper
oregano
garlic powder
chopped parsley
Flour
eggwash (eggs and milk)
Peanut oil for frying.

Pound the cutlets.
Dredge in flour, eggs, then the bread crumb mixture.
Fry till golden brown in 350° peanut oil.
In a baking pan, place a layer of gravy,
then one of meat, gravy, and cheese.
Another layer each of meat, gravy, and cheese.
Then bake at 350° for 45 minutes.
Serve on hot pasta with romano cheese.



Southern Fried Small-fry

Tastes like fried chicken, which works just as well.
In fact you may want to practice cutting up whole chickens
for fr