On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 21:22:46 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:


"G. Doughty" wrote in message
...
Is this test open game? Basically, are all characters, q-codes, and
prosigns
fair game on this test. I have studied relentlessly and know a majority
of
them and can receive at 10wpm but everytime I look at a different book or
website I find more stuff.

Thanks for the input

73
G. Doughty
KI4BBL

It is the letters of the alphabet, numerals, period, comma, question mark,
/, and the following prosigns: BT (written as =), K, KN, and AR. The test

BT should be the double dash "- - " At least I've never seen it as
anything else.


is sent in the form of a simulated QSO (conversation or contact) between two
stations. It runs for 5 minutes and you copy as much as you can. Then you
will either need to answer 7 out of 10 questions correctly on the content of
the QSO or have 1 minute of solid copy (i.e. no errors) to pass. At 5wpm,

Did they drop the requirement from two minutes to one minute?

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)


one minute is 25 characters, however the numerals, punctuation and prosigns
count as if they were two characters due to their length.

The Q-codes are composed of individual letters so there is no problem there.
Even so, probably the only ones that will occur is QTH (location), QSO
(conversation or contact), and QSL (acknowledge receipt of transmission).

As far as Q-codes (and abbreviations) copy exactly what you hear not what
you think they might be sending and you should be all right.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Roger Halstead" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 21:22:46 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:


"G. Doughty" wrote in message
...
Is this test open game? Basically, are all characters, q-codes, and
prosigns
fair game on this test. I have studied relentlessly and know a
majority
of
them and can receive at 10wpm but everytime I look at a different book
or
website I find more stuff.

Thanks for the input

73
G. Doughty
KI4BBL

It is the letters of the alphabet, numerals, period, comma, question
mark,
/, and the following prosigns: BT (written as =), K, KN, and AR. The
test

BT should be the double dash "- - " At least I've never seen it as
anything else.


Double dash is also "=". And is the only way I've seen it written in the
books on code such as "Morse Code: The Essential Language". It is also
written "=" on the check sheet that the VEs use to check copy. The sequence
for BT is the same as the sequence for the equals sign. For example if you
wanted to send 1 + 1 = 2, it would be

di-dah-dah-dah-dah di-dah-di-dah-dit di-dah-dah-dah-dah dah-di-di-di-dah
di-di-dah-dah-dah

Note that the prosign AR is the same as the "+" sign.


is sent in the form of a simulated QSO (conversation or contact) between
two
stations. It runs for 5 minutes and you copy as much as you can. Then
you
will either need to answer 7 out of 10 questions correctly on the content
of
the QSO or have 1 minute of solid copy (i.e. no errors) to pass. At
5wpm,

Did they drop the requirement from two minutes to one minute?


It has been one minute solid copy since I got into amateur radio in 1992.
Before that, I couldn't say.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE
(VE for ARRL & W5YI)

Dear Neighbor Roger:
It has been one minute of perfect copy (out of five) since at least
the early 50s. That was the only receiving standard. One also had to
demonstrate that one could send CW - you were allowed to bring your own
key.
73 Mac N8TT
--
J. Mc Laughlin - Michigan USA
Home:

"Roger Halstead" wrote in message
snip

Did they drop the requirement from two minutes to one minute?

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:47:29 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:


"Roger Halstead" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 21:22:46 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:


"G. Doughty" wrote in message
...
Is this test open game? Basically, are all characters, q-codes, and
prosigns
fair game on this test. I have studied relentlessly and know a
majority
of
them and can receive at 10wpm but everytime I look at a different book
or
website I find more stuff.

Thanks for the input

73
G. Doughty
KI4BBL

It is the letters of the alphabet, numerals, period, comma, question
mark,
/, and the following prosigns: BT (written as =), K, KN, and AR. The
test

BT should be the double dash "- - " At least I've never seen it as
anything else.


Double dash is also "=". And is the only way I've seen it written in the
books on code such as "Morse Code: The Essential Language". It is also
written "=" on the check sheet that the VEs use to check copy. The sequence
for BT is the same as the sequence for the equals sign. For example if you
wanted to send 1 + 1 = 2, it would be

di-dah-dah-dah-dah di-dah-di-dah-dit di-dah-dah-dah-dah dah-di-di-di-dah
di-di-dah-dah-dah

Note that the prosign AR is the same as the "+" sign.

I've never seen either written that way, but I learned the code in
1961:-)) I use it, but haven't looked at a book on it since.

We never bothered to write out KN, or AR as they had a significance to
the transmission. If you heard KN you did not break in. As with SK
it means this is the last transmission and we didn't write that out
either. Non of those were on the test, but again that was in 61. The
only prosigns were the comma, period, slash bar, and double dash which
was nothing more than adding space. I didn't get any more than that
on the extra and I took that at the FCC Detroit office. Actually I
don't think there was a double dash on the extra.

Times sure change....



is sent in the form of a simulated QSO (conversation or contact) between
two
stations. It runs for 5 minutes and you copy as much as you can. Then
you
will either need to answer 7 out of 10 questions correctly on the content
of
the QSO or have 1 minute of solid copy (i.e. no errors) to pass. At
5wpm,

Did they drop the requirement from two minutes to one minute?


It has been one minute solid copy since I got into amateur radio in 1992.
Before that, I couldn't say.

It was 2 minutes solid when I took the Novice, General, and Extra.
(61, 62, and 73??.. I think it was 73 or at least there abouts.)

At least we didn't have essay questions:-)) which I believe they
phased out in the 50s.
And...I haven't seen any math that couldn't be worked out in the
applicant's head (if they know the material and "rules of thumb"). db
being the easiest of all which a lot of students find difficult.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE
(VE for ARRL & W5YI)

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 22:25:04 -0400, "J. McLaughlin"
wrote:

Dear Neighbor Roger:
It has been one minute of perfect copy (out of five) since at least
the early 50s. That was the only receiving standard. One also had to
demonstrate that one could send CW - you were allowed to bring your own
key.

Well, my memory ain't what it used to be and that was a long time
back, but I'll swear it was a total of 2 minutes when I took the
Novice, General, and Extra...but I do remember being able to bring
your own key down to Detroit.

Sending may sound simple, but trying to do so when really nervous was
a true challenge. LOL I remember one guy at out session who failed
on the transmitt...although it "seems like" they let him redo the
sending test. which wasn't typical. It seems like I remember a couple
of dropped keys too.

I do remember that "for me" the Advanced was the easiest and took
about 10 minutes. The Extra took about 15 to 20 minutes. BUT I worked
in the field and knew the stuff forward and backwards by then. I
hasten to add that it didn't cover a lot of the stuff now covered. It
had about two questions on any phase of Amateur Radio...Now I'd think
it would be impossible to get one question on every phase.

73

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)


73 Mac N8TT

Why not call your VE and ask what is sent on the test.
Here in San Diego, a pre-test info sheet it available -- see URL:
http://ac6v.com/morseaids.htm#CWPASS

A snip from the San Diego pre-test info sheet
-------------------------------------
"You will want to know in what manner to study, note that in the example,
code characters are sent at 13 wpm, with the spacing adjusted for overall 5
wpm speed – study accordingly is recommended. The VEC’s in your particular
area can be found at URL: http://www.arrl.org/arrlvec/veclist.html
You will note that the sample QSO contains all of the alphabet letters,
numbers 1 thru 0, punctuation such as the period, comma, question mark,
slant bar, and the prosigns BT, AR, and SK. All of these are required by the
FCC to demonstrate your knowledge of the Morse Code."

--------------------------------------------

End Snip

Note callsigns with "de" is in the sample message.

I don't think Q-Signals are sent in the test. At least the sample does not
have any.

It may vary in your area, so call your VEC
http://www.arrl.org/arrlvec/veclist.html

Good Luck
73 From the Spurious Noise ';';;';x":.,";"'

--------------------------------------------------

"G. Doughty" wrote in message
...
Is this test open game? Basically, are all characters, q-codes, and
prosigns
fair game on this test. I have studied relentlessly and know a majority
of
them and can receive at 10wpm but everytime I look at a different book or
website I find more stuff.

Thanks for the input

73
G. Doughty
KI4BBL

"Spurious Noise" wrote in message
news:7XAfb.50587$Ms2.14819@fed1read03...
Why not call your VE and ask what is sent on the test.
Here in San Diego, a pre-test info sheet it available -- see URL:
http://ac6v.com/morseaids.htm#CWPASS

A snip from the San Diego pre-test info sheet
-------------------------------------
"You will want to know in what manner to study, note that in the example,
code characters are sent at 13 wpm, with the spacing adjusted for overall
5
wpm speed - study accordingly is recommended. The VEC's in your particular
area can be found at URL: http://www.arrl.org/arrlvec/veclist.html
You will note that the sample QSO contains all of the alphabet letters,
numbers 1 thru 0, punctuation such as the period, comma, question mark,
slant bar, and the prosigns BT, AR, and SK. All of these are required by
the
FCC to demonstrate your knowledge of the Morse Code."

--------------------------------------------

End Snip

Note callsigns with "de" is in the sample message.

I don't think Q-Signals are sent in the test. At least the sample does not
have any.

It may vary in your area, so call your VEC
http://www.arrl.org/arrlvec/veclist.html

Good Luck
73 From the Spurious Noise ';';;';x":.,";"'

From what I remember (and admittedly, it's been awhile), they may include
QTH in the simulated transmission since it is supposed to be representative
of an actual QSO but the question on the written might be phrased "What is
the location?" It's an easy way to include Q. However they will not ask
"What does QTH mean?"

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Spurious Noise" wrote in message
news:7XAfb.50587$Ms2.14819@fed1read03...
Why not call your VE and ask what is sent on the test.
Here in San Diego, a pre-test info sheet it available -- see URL:
http://ac6v.com/morseaids.htm#CWPASS

A snip from the San Diego pre-test info sheet
-------------------------------------
"You will want to know in what manner to study, note that in the example,
code characters are sent at 13 wpm, with the spacing adjusted for overall
5
wpm speed - study accordingly is recommended. The VEC's in your particular
area can be found at URL: http://www.arrl.org/arrlvec/veclist.html
You will note that the sample QSO contains all of the alphabet letters,
numbers 1 thru 0, punctuation such as the period, comma, question mark,
slant bar, and the prosigns BT, AR, and SK. All of these are required by
the
FCC to demonstrate your knowledge of the Morse Code."

--------------------------------------------

End Snip

Note callsigns with "de" is in the sample message.

I don't think Q-Signals are sent in the test. At least the sample does not
have any.

It may vary in your area, so call your VEC
http://www.arrl.org/arrlvec/veclist.html

Good Luck
73 From the Spurious Noise ';';;';x":.,";"'

Also since Q codes are sent as three separate letters with spaces between,
they count as just plain text and each letter is one character. This is
different from prosigns where the two letters are run together with no space
and thus make an extended character and are counted as if they were two
characters.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dear Neighbor: I too took all of the tests, including commercial, at
FCC Detroit. I too remember one fellow who failed the sending test. I
also remember at least one question on transistors where none of the
provided "answers" were correct! One just had to get into the mind of
the person who wrote the exam and guess what that person was thinking.

I sure remember the pass requirement being 20 times 5 characters (100)
correct in a row (with punctuation and numbers counting as two
characters). The paper you wrote down the code on was collected
immediately after the code stopped.

Perhaps others have a different recollection.
73 Mac N8TT

--
J. Mc Laughlin - Michigan USA
Home:

"Roger Halstead" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 22:25:04 -0400, "J. McLaughlin"
wrote:

Dear Neighbor Roger:
It has been one minute of perfect copy (out of five) since at
least
the early 50s. That was the only receiving standard. One also had
to
demonstrate that one could send CW - you were allowed to bring your
own
key.

Well, my memory ain't what it used to be and that was a long time
back, but I'll swear it was a total of 2 minutes when I took the
Novice, General, and Extra...but I do remember being able to bring
your own key down to Detroit.

Sending may sound simple, but trying to do so when really nervous was
a true challenge. LOL I remember one guy at out session who failed
on the transmitt...although it "seems like" they let him redo the
sending test. which wasn't typical. It seems like I remember a couple
of dropped keys too.

I do remember that "for me" the Advanced was the easiest and took
about 10 minutes. The Extra took about 15 to 20 minutes. BUT I worked
in the field and knew the stuff forward and backwards by then. I
hasten to add that it didn't cover a lot of the stuff now covered. It
had about two questions on any phase of Amateur Radio...Now I'd think
it would be impossible to get one question on every phase.

73

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

Ok, well, blew the test! I got a case of the nerves. I didn't know it well
enough. I think that if you really know the code then it can naturally be
copied faster than 5wpm. I need to be at the point where I here the
transmission and it is the letter.

I'll try again soon. Thanks for all the help.


73
G. Doughty
KI4BBL