(W1RFI) wrote in message ...
Under the present
rules, they must be tested at 3 typical locations. "

What's the FCC definition of "typical locations"??

There is none.

.. . . 'nuff sed . .


15.209 is the problem, it's grossly outdated, did not foresee anything
like BPL and the limits needs to be revised downward which is one
piece of this brawl. Ref: Tailpipe emissions regs, same basic problem,
different pollution media.

A good tailpipe analogy would be to consider the present tailpipe emissions
limits. We can still breathe with the number of cars that emit. Now, the
equivalent to BPL emissions occurring on several MHz at a time would be to
stack 100 cars on top of each other and have them all running at the same time.
The equivalent to building the system as large as an entire community is to do
that for every square inch of roadway. Would the emissions limits that work for
an occasional car passing by your home still work under those circumstances, or
would we all choke to death in a matter of minutes?

Very good analogy. Choke = Dead. Get sombody from over at the EPA to
submit comments on w3hj's spectrum analyzer screen grabs of SS BPL.
He/she would no doubt understand the problem better than the FCC gloms
can.

The silence is deafening. Did I scare you away from the meeting?


73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

w3rv

On 17 Oct 2003 11:15:24 GMT, (W1RFI) sent into the
ether:

Is the ARRL preparing a FAQ for amateurs who have scopes, spectrum
analyzers, or service monitors, etc., as to how they might go about
inspecting a suspected chunk of spectrum and how detect, identify,
qualify whey they see/hear?

Not at this time, Dan. I want to talk with amateurs who are going to go into
the trial areas, to share my experiences and to make sure I learn as much as
possible from theirs. FAQs are a great way for beginners to learn about a
subject, but some things are still best left to real dialogue.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI


Hi Ed, good work. I probably missed it, but will ask anyway, is there
a list of the areas that are being tested? Anything in the Northern
IL or Southern WI areas?

Dan, N9JBF
Dan, N9JBF
Amateur radio - What a hobby!
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In article , Carl R. Stevenson
wrote:


Hi Carl,

I made a trip to the Cape Giradeu MO test area. This ws a very limited
test area encompassing maybe 10 - 15 homes judging from the inductors I
saw on the utility poles. I found that BPL seems to operate in an
"idle" mode and a active demand mode.

When in the idle mode the intereference from the upper BC band through
20 meters is quite noticable and was registering S7 - S9 on the meter
of my IC-737 connected to a Hustler antenna with 40 and 20 meter
resonators attached. It was also audible from about 1520 and up on the
BC band.

When in active mode, (probably when someone was downloading something)
the S meter readings went to 30+ over S9 and the top of the broadcast
band was seriously hacked up. I also detected effects at the bottem of
the FM broadcast band. The highest reading I saw was on the 20 meter
band. When in the active mode, I could detect serious levels of BPL
interference at 500 feet growing weaker out to about 1,000 feet when
it dropped below my traditional mobile noise level.

After hearing it and seeing it's potential for devestating interference,
I am of the opinion that it will be a serious problem for anyone using
the spectrum between 1.6 and 88 MHZ. In addition, I am willing to bet
that the radiation will be rich in harmonics.

73
George
K3UD

EX- WA3DNC, W3GEO

"W1RFI" wrote in message
...
Write or call your local AM broadcast stations and tell them that
thier signal is being wiped out and you can't recieve them.

When I was in Emmaus, PA, I turned on the car AM radio and didn't hear any
noise on the AM broadcast band. I believe that some of the reports may
have
been in error.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

I can confirm what Ed reports above ... on my first drive through the Emmaus
BPL area, I didn't have my FT-817 with me ... I noted little/no BPL noise
in the AM broadcast band ... perhaps a bit of extra noise at the very upper
end of the band around 1600 kHz, but nothing like what exists on 80-15m.

Again, I want to help Ed drive the point home - false claims of "BPL
interference"
will do a LOT of harm to our cause ... I encourage anyone who thinks they
might
be experiencing BPL interference to communicate with Ed and let him help to
verify
things.

I also encourage everyone to send a donation to the ARRL's BPL fund - you
don't have to agree with *everything* the ARRL does to be willing to help
to overcome this major threat to our future on HF.

Carl - wk3c

"PDQ" wrote in message
...
In article , Carl R. Stevenson
wrote:


Hi Carl,

I made a trip to the Cape Giradeu MO test area. This ws a very limited
test area encompassing maybe 10 - 15 homes judging from the inductors I
saw on the utility poles. I found that BPL seems to operate in an
"idle" mode and a active demand mode.

You might want to contact this fellow.

http://iamnee.com/

I don't remember if he's a ham, I worked with him on a project there a
couple years ago. He does have nice spectrum analysis tools, and he lives
there in Cape G.

Most of this discussion on BPL focuses on the impact of
BPL on HF reception. What would 1500w of continuous RTTY
do to the users of BPL? How would a BPL modem, which is
necessarily wideband cope with gross overload?

Tom - N1MM
Check out the N1MM Free Contest Logger at:
http://www.n1mm.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/N1MMLogger/

(Brian Kelly) wrote in message . com...
"Phil Kane" wrote in message . net...
On 15 Oct 2003 22:30:17 -0700, Brian Kelly wrote:

This means that the manufacturer is required to test them to
ensure that they comply with the FCC regulations. Under the present
rules, they must be tested at 3 typical locations. "

What's the FCC definition of "typical locations"??

De facto: any place where the results support the stand that one is
advocating.

Oh golly, I would never have guessed that . .

Its a complex issue. Thank goodness we have lawyers and engineers to
figure it all out for us.

I probably missed it, but will ask anyway, is there
a list of the areas that are being tested? Anything in the Northern
IL or Southern WI areas?

Nothing in those areas, at least not for now. I have most of the locations
pinned down, but I have not posted them on a "public" URL. A few of the
utilities and one of the BPL manufacturers (Ambient) is being very cooperative.
One of the promises I made is that ARRL will help them determine the
interference potential of BPL systems, but that we will do it in a way that is
minimally disruptive to them. Having hordes of hams showing up in these areas
would probably not be a good idea, especially seeing as it would only take one
of the ones who offered to use the couplers for target practice to undermine
months of building good will.

If you are willing to do a more quiet foray into the test areas, email me and
let me know and I can provide some info, although it will be a good drive for
you.

I have posted the cities involved, and can repeat the list if it is needed.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

Having hordes of hams showing up in these areas
would probably not be a good idea, especially seeing as it would only take
one
of the ones who offered to use the couplers for target practice to
undermine
months of building good will.

Defnintely not fair play!

If you are willing to do a more quiet foray into the test areas, email me
and
let me know and I can provide some info, although it will be a good drive
for
you.

I have posted the cities involved, and can repeat the list if it is
needed.

I can do a quiet sniff within any reasonable distance of east central
indiana.

BTW: I was wondering exactly how you calibrate your system for field
strength values.

(Brian) wrote in message . com...

Its a complex issue. Thank goodness we have lawyers and engineers to
figure it all out for us.

Heaven forbid that you'd ever take the initiative to think for yourself, Brain.

Steve, K4YZ

On 18 Oct 2003 20:32:45 GMT, (W1RFI) sent into the
ether:

I probably missed it, but will ask anyway, is there
a list of the areas that are being tested? Anything in the Northern
IL or Southern WI areas?

Nothing in those areas, at least not for now. I have most of the locations
pinned down, but I have not posted them on a "public" URL. A few of the
utilities and one of the BPL manufacturers (Ambient) is being very cooperative.
One of the promises I made is that ARRL will help them determine the
interference potential of BPL systems, but that we will do it in a way that is
minimally disruptive to them. Having hordes of hams showing up in these areas
would probably not be a good idea, especially seeing as it would only take one
of the ones who offered to use the couplers for target practice to undermine
months of building good will.

If you are willing to do a more quiet foray into the test areas, email me and
let me know and I can provide some info, although it will be a good drive for
you.

I have posted the cities involved, and can repeat the list if it is needed.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI


I was just curious about the locations. I would be interested in
helping in my area, Mid to Southern WI or Northern IL. If anything
happens out this way, let me know if you need a hand.
Dan, N9JBF
Amateur radio - What a hobby!
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