12 v or 13.8?
 

When looking for a power supply for my Alinco dr-590, what type of
power supply would I look for? The radio says 13.8 v dc but if I get a
12 volt power supply will it put out the same wattage at the radio?

On 25 Jan 2005 08:22:59 -0800, wrote:

When looking for a power supply for my Alinco dr-590, what type of
power supply would I look for? The radio says 13.8 v dc but if I get a
12 volt power supply will it put out the same wattage at the radio?

Hi Don,

Do the math. You have the same load - less voltage. The power laws
describe this simply as E²/R.

However, it is very, very, very unlikely that you have 12.0 V of
anything as this is a "nominal" voltage, and almost never an actual
voltage. The 12 V label is derived from the common application of the
Lead-Acid Edison Battery. The cells of this battery develop 2.1 V
potential, and with their common combination into batteries of either
3 cells or 6 cells, those bring the total up to 6.3 V or 12.6 V. Many
here will recognize these values as common filament voltages for
tubes. So even here, common transformers that are either 6 or 12 V
specified, actually supply more voltage under load (because they were
originally filament power transformers).

The specification for 13.8 V is derived from the automotive electrical
system that was designed (with its voltage regulator and
generator/alternator) to supply a "float" voltage that would keep the
battery topped off while simultaneously carrying the load. Hence,
mobile applications are designed for this configuration and the source
should be robust enough to support the load.

Now, it seems to me you were using a deep discharge battery, or you
were planning to do so. This is a common application in the shack, I
have two batteries in parallel held up with a 20A trickle charge
(voltage adjusted to the optimum value). The charger (actually a
precision source from Acopian) is not large enough to supply my HF
rigs under full power out (my Drake TR-7 is rated well above 100W) but
the combination of batteries and charger manage quite well. Also, I
have connectored everything so that I can strip down, transport and
reconfigure for field day operations (sans charger).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

wrote:

When looking for a power supply for my Alinco dr-590, what type of
power supply would I look for? The radio says 13.8 v dc but if I get a
12 volt power supply will it put out the same wattage at the radio?


Astron RS-20A, or a RS-20M if you want meters. That'll handle your 45
watt radio. It's a 12 volt power supply that is internally adjustable
up to and above 13.8 volts. Get the RS-35 if you plan on adding an HF
rig to your station. Astron is standard equipment on many radio desks.

ac6xg

"Jim Kelley" wrote in message
...


wrote:

When looking for a power supply for my Alinco dr-590, what type of
power supply would I look for? The radio says 13.8 v dc but if I get a
12 volt power supply will it put out the same wattage at the radio?


Astron RS-20A, or a RS-20M if you want meters. That'll handle your 45
watt radio. It's a 12 volt power supply that is internally adjustable up
to and above 13.8 volts. Get the RS-35 if you plan on adding an HF rig to
your station. Astron is standard equipment on many radio desks.

ac6xg

I agree with Jim about Astron. Been using 'em for decades. Simple, robust
design. Zero failures.
The voltage conundrum I believe derives from the necessary voltage to charge
a 12 volt battery.
Gotta overcome that old internal resistance; Turns out to be about 13.8
volts.
I don't know of a "12V" ham rig that would care about the difference.
Get outside the manufacturer's specified range (RTFB) and you may not have a
warranty.
73
H., NQ5H

Richard Clark wrote:
On 25 Jan 2005 08:22:59 -0800, wrote:

When looking for a power supply for my Alinco dr-590, what type of
power supply would I look for? The radio says 13.8 v dc but if I get
a
12 volt power supply will it put out the same wattage at the radio?

Hi Don,

Do the math. You have the same load - less voltage. The power laws
describe this simply as E=B2/R.

However, it is very, very, very unlikely that you have 12.0 V of
anything as this is a "nominal" voltage, and almost never an actual
voltage. The 12 V label is derived from the common application of
the
Lead-Acid Edison Battery. The cells of this battery develop 2.1 V
potential, and with their common combination into batteries of either
3 cells or 6 cells, those bring the total up to 6.3 V or 12.6 V.
Many
here will recognize these values as common filament voltages for
tubes. So even here, common transformers that are either 6 or 12 V
specified, actually supply more voltage under load (because they were
originally filament power transformers).

The specification for 13.8 V is derived from the automotive
electrical
system that was designed (with its voltage regulator and
generator/alternator) to supply a "float" voltage that would keep the
battery topped off while simultaneously carrying the load. Hence,
mobile applications are designed for this configuration and the
source
should be robust enough to support the load.

Now, it seems to me you were using a deep discharge battery, or you
were planning to do so. This is a common application in the shack, I
have two batteries in parallel held up with a 20A trickle charge
(voltage adjusted to the optimum value). The charger (actually a
precision source from Acopian) is not large enough to supply my HF
rigs under full power out (my Drake TR-7 is rated well above 100W)
but
the combination of batteries and charger manage quite well. Also, I
have connectored everything so that I can strip down, transport and
reconfigure for field day operations (sans charger).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

So you are saying it wont matter?

I was wanting to use the marine battery I have but someone else posted
a negative experience with the fumes ruining part of their house and
their own health. It scared me a little.

I was looking at power supplies on ebay and some of them stated 12
volts (older ones) some said 13.8. That is why I asked.
I am still a little confused on what way I need to go.

wrote:

Richard Clark wrote:

On 25 Jan 2005 08:22:59 -0800, wrote:


When looking for a power supply for my Alinco dr-590, what type of
power supply would I look for? The radio says 13.8 v dc but if I get

a

12 volt power supply will it put out the same wattage at the radio?

Hi Don,

Do the math. You have the same load - less voltage. The power laws
describe this simply as E²/R.

However, it is very, very, very unlikely that you have 12.0 V of
anything as this is a "nominal" voltage, and almost never an actual
voltage. The 12 V label is derived from the common application of

the

Lead-Acid Edison Battery. The cells of this battery develop 2.1 V
potential, and with their common combination into batteries of either
3 cells or 6 cells, those bring the total up to 6.3 V or 12.6 V.

Many

here will recognize these values as common filament voltages for
tubes. So even here, common transformers that are either 6 or 12 V
specified, actually supply more voltage under load (because they were
originally filament power transformers).

The specification for 13.8 V is derived from the automotive

electrical

system that was designed (with its voltage regulator and
generator/alternator) to supply a "float" voltage that would keep the
battery topped off while simultaneously carrying the load. Hence,
mobile applications are designed for this configuration and the

source

should be robust enough to support the load.

Now, it seems to me you were using a deep discharge battery, or you
were planning to do so. This is a common application in the shack, I
have two batteries in parallel held up with a 20A trickle charge
(voltage adjusted to the optimum value). The charger (actually a
precision source from Acopian) is not large enough to supply my HF
rigs under full power out (my Drake TR-7 is rated well above 100W)

but

the combination of batteries and charger manage quite well. Also, I
have connectored everything so that I can strip down, transport and
reconfigure for field day operations (sans charger).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC


So you are saying it wont matter?

I was wanting to use the marine battery I have but someone else posted
a negative experience with the fumes ruining part of their house and
their own health. It scared me a little.

I was looking at power supplies on ebay and some of them stated 12
volts (older ones) some said 13.8. That is why I asked.
I am still a little confused on what way I need to go.

Richard always writes as if he's entering a prose contest. He has some
difficulty communicating with Earthlings. :-)

ac6xg

"Jim Kelley" wrote in message
...
snip
Richard always writes as if he's entering a prose contest. He has some
difficulty communicating with Earthlings. :-)

ac6xg

Jim
That's 'cause he gets his plonk from Reg.
;^))))
73
H.

wrote in message
oups.com...

Richard Clark wrote:
On 25 Jan 2005 08:22:59 -0800, wrote:

When looking for a power supply for my Alinco dr-590, what type of
power supply would I look for? The radio says 13.8 v dc but if I get
a
12 volt power supply will it put out the same wattage at the radio?

Hi Don,

Do the math. You have the same load - less voltage. The power laws
describe this simply as E²/R.

However, it is very, very, very unlikely that you have 12.0 V of
anything as this is a "nominal" voltage, and almost never an actual
voltage. The 12 V label is derived from the common application of
the
Lead-Acid Edison Battery. The cells of this battery develop 2.1 V
potential, and with their common combination into batteries of either
3 cells or 6 cells, those bring the total up to 6.3 V or 12.6 V.
Many
here will recognize these values as common filament voltages for
tubes. So even here, common transformers that are either 6 or 12 V
specified, actually supply more voltage under load (because they were
originally filament power transformers).

The specification for 13.8 V is derived from the automotive
electrical
system that was designed (with its voltage regulator and
generator/alternator) to supply a "float" voltage that would keep the
battery topped off while simultaneously carrying the load. Hence,
mobile applications are designed for this configuration and the
source
should be robust enough to support the load.

Now, it seems to me you were using a deep discharge battery, or you
were planning to do so. This is a common application in the shack, I
have two batteries in parallel held up with a 20A trickle charge
(voltage adjusted to the optimum value). The charger (actually a
precision source from Acopian) is not large enough to supply my HF
rigs under full power out (my Drake TR-7 is rated well above 100W)
but
the combination of batteries and charger manage quite well. Also, I
have connectored everything so that I can strip down, transport and
reconfigure for field day operations (sans charger).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

So you are saying it wont matter?

I was wanting to use the marine battery I have but someone else posted
a negative experience with the fumes ruining part of their house and
their own health. It scared me a little.

I was looking at power supplies on ebay and some of them stated 12
volts (older ones) some said 13.8. That is why I asked.
I am still a little confused on what way I need to go.

As far as I know, 100% of supplies sold for ham use are 13.8V, or
thereabouts. 12 Volts was a standard voltage for many linear ICs, along with
15 V. My Astron switching supply came set for 14.05 V. I don't see that as a
problem because all my stuff can be used in a car, and I have never seen the
car voltage drop below 14 V with the engine running.

Tam/WB2TT

"Tam/WB2TT" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...

Richard Clark wrote:
On 25 Jan 2005 08:22:59 -0800, wrote:

When looking for a power supply for my Alinco dr-590, what type of
power supply would I look for? The radio says 13.8 v dc but if I get
a
12 volt power supply will it put out the same wattage at the radio?

Hi Don,

Do the math. You have the same load - less voltage. The power laws
describe this simply as E²/R.

However, it is very, very, very unlikely that you have 12.0 V of
anything as this is a "nominal" voltage, and almost never an actual
voltage. The 12 V label is derived from the common application of
the
Lead-Acid Edison Battery. The cells of this battery develop 2.1 V
potential, and with their common combination into batteries of either
3 cells or 6 cells, those bring the total up to 6.3 V or 12.6 V.
Many
here will recognize these values as common filament voltages for
tubes. So even here, common transformers that are either 6 or 12 V
specified, actually supply more voltage under load (because they were
originally filament power transformers).

The specification for 13.8 V is derived from the automotive
electrical
system that was designed (with its voltage regulator and
generator/alternator) to supply a "float" voltage that would keep the
battery topped off while simultaneously carrying the load. Hence,
mobile applications are designed for this configuration and the
source
should be robust enough to support the load.

Now, it seems to me you were using a deep discharge battery, or you
were planning to do so. This is a common application in the shack, I
have two batteries in parallel held up with a 20A trickle charge
(voltage adjusted to the optimum value). The charger (actually a
precision source from Acopian) is not large enough to supply my HF
rigs under full power out (my Drake TR-7 is rated well above 100W)
but
the combination of batteries and charger manage quite well. Also, I
have connectored everything so that I can strip down, transport and
reconfigure for field day operations (sans charger).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

So you are saying it wont matter?

I was wanting to use the marine battery I have but someone else posted
a negative experience with the fumes ruining part of their house and
their own health. It scared me a little.

I was looking at power supplies on ebay and some of them stated 12
volts (older ones) some said 13.8. That is why I asked.
I am still a little confused on what way I need to go.

As far as I know, 100% of supplies sold for ham use are 13.8V, or
thereabouts. 12 Volts was a standard voltage for many linear ICs, along
with 15 V. My Astron switching supply came set for 14.05 V. I don't see
that as a problem because all my stuff can be used in a car, and I have
never seen the car voltage drop below 14 V with the engine running.

Tam/WB2TT

Bingo
Try Sealed Lead Acid batteries, BTW.
73
H.