Jack Painter wrote:
"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
How do you feel about the sacking of Constantinople?

"the sacking"? 1204 or 1453?

The 1204 sacking of the Christian city by Christian
Crusaders during the Fourth Crusade.

"Eventually, the crusaders were victorious, and the citizens of the
city, strangely, at least to western eyes, welcomed them into the city
as usurpers, not as conquerors. The crusaders did not see it this way,
and they inflicted a horrible and savage sacking on Constantinople for
three days, during which many ancient works of art were stolen or
destroyed."

How does one defend those Christian acts?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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wrote:
Tom, remember mustard gas used in the first world war?
Terrible stuff to use yet the largest stockpile in the world
of that terrible stuff is held in mid U.S., for what reason
I do not know, Do you?
Regarding Commander Harris, are you saying that he took a squadron
to Iraq and sprayed poison gas?
Art

"Tom Donaly" wrote in message
...

Reg Edwards wrote:

snip.........................................


Unmitigated hypocrisy. The British have no business sticking their
noses in the air over our behavior in Iraq. An example: there have
been two men who have been responsible for
using poison gas against civilians in that country. One of them is
the infamous Saddam. The other is the great British war hero
"Bomber" Harris, who, like Adolph Hitler, believed you could win
wars simply by slaughtering innocent people.
Stick your nose in a history book, Reg, and you might be able
to cure yourself of the habit of making these asinine posts.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH




Hi Art,
before WWII, when Britain was heavily involved in Iraq that's
exactly what he did.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

Jack Painter wrote:

"Tom Donaly" wrote


Jack Painter wrote:


"Tom Donaly" wrote

Jack Painter wrote:


Hello Art,

I've been to London, and I never heard lunatics advocating the violent
destruction of all things related to the "West" as we know it. But then

I


stayed out of Mosques, too. The reference to the city gates was

anecdotal


only. The 40% was a figure given to me by a London couple I met last

week,


when I quoted 30% muslim population living in London, apparently an old
figure. This particular British couple I met happen to approve of both
President George Bush and our mutual (countries) efforts to eradicate
radical muslim actors. They also have a soldier-son in Kuwait so

perhaps

they are privy to information we are not.

We have not declared war on the nation of islam, but we should, because

they


have long ago declared war on the west and all of our tenets of free
religion, free economies and forms of self-government.

Wise up and stop defending that which is focused on your own

destruction. It


has nothing to do with free speech. It has everything to do with

survival. I


don't mince words, and genocide is exactly what it will take to survive

the


onslaught of islam. Education may prevent it from reaching the level of
insanity it presently enjoys. It enjoys this status largely due to the
tolerance of fools who think their elected legislators represent them.
Perhaps Reg remembers when Chamberlain lied to his countrymen, waiving

the


"peace is at hand" (paraphrased, Art) toilet paper that Nazi Germany

gave


him. Saying that Islam is a "peaceful religion" is the same rubbish.

Regards,
Jack

" wrote




Jack, who are the lunatics? To have faith in your religeon or beliefs

is

not



insane,
We have christians who have faith in religeon and beliefs. In war many

have



given up their lives
to save others and we have in fact declared war against a religeon.,
Regarding Londoners having their own form of sanity, go to Hyde Park

corner



on a sunday
and hear the free speech that is the right of all even if you may

disagree


with it..
Regarding the gates of London of which there are eight which surround

one


square mile
if you say that 40,000 dwell inside those gates then many must be

squatters



inside the palace walls.
Reg is speaking as a European where the main threat of war in the

world

is


seen to come from the Middle East
with the help of the U.S. Why else would we deliver 50 of our most
sophisticated deep concrete bunker
smart bombs? Surely not for destruction of tents and shacks but more
probably to penetrate heavily concrete
nuclear energy stations like their own. I believe Reg is sincere and

correct



in asking the USA from the other side of the pond regarding what we do

in


the Middle East. WHY?
As far as banning guns, I do believe they ban hand grenades and a

plethoria



of other weapons that can only
be used to kill people. It is a democratic country and it is the

peoples

will, why are you concerned about it?.
If there are many close by to you who have the same beliefs as you

regarding



genocide you may have to coinsider
whether you want to kill or be considered to be one endangered by the
killing. Your religion may well be different
to your immediate population
Regards
Art

"Jack Painter" wrote in message
news:MfqRd.47386$EG1.7785@lakeread04...



"Reg Edwards" wrote




These days we have other forms of suicide. There are people who are

living



such enforced miserable lives and in such oppressed conditions they
prefer
to sacrifice their own lives in the hope of improving the future

lives

of



their families and their decendents.

Citizens of the United States, and others, ask yourselves WHY?
----
Reg, Amateur Radio, G4FGQ

Reg,

The alleged conditions you describe are not found in the people who

do

this,
and if it were present would still have zero bearing on the cause of

these



lunatic suicides. Fractional existence and/or slavery may be found

all

over
the globe and was rarely ever a cause of such insanity. Only the
influence
of Islam allows such departure from humanity and any hope of a better

life



here on earth. Islam executes this insane belief not only on others,

but


on
themselves. A combination of education and eradication (genocide) may

be


applied as needed to calm this insanity. Londoners have their own

form

of



insanity, that of banning guns from law abiding citizens whilst
encouraging
Muslim Mosques to add to the near 40% Muslim population who preach

for

the



destruction of the West from inside the London city gates.

Regards,

Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia


Islam can be a beautiful, satisfying religion, or it can not. Like
some of the gutter Christian sects infesting America there are people
who profess a belief in God who would use that belief as an excuse
for killing innocent people. People who preach genocide are low,
anti-social, dangerous, and a danger to society and should be locked
up to keep them from doing harm.

Tom Donaly, KA6RUH


then Tom added:


Religious fanatics of every stripe are dangerous, whether they be

Christian, Hindu, Moslem or anything else. So, too, are political
fanatics. The West has plenty of both.

Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

Well Tom, fortunately for you, there are rough men ready to fight in the
middle of the night on the other side of the world, in order that you

can

sleep in your bed free from fear. As to your thinking that I should be
locked up, I nonetheless defend your right to be a useless twit, unable

to

stand for anything, and able to make dribble about righteousness without

a

defining origin of those thoughts. Everything is o.k. with you, except
things that suck. Someone should take care of that stuff for you, so you
don't have to worry too much about it. Gotcha. Oh and Tom, we'll be

watching

for those zealous Christian sects infesting America, watching for the

first

sign of their *suicide bombings*. In the meantime, maybe you can point

to

some evidence of Christians doing that anywhere in the world, ever.

Jack



Many atrocities have been committed over the years in the name of
Christ. That doesn't meant that Christianity is bad, but that there
have been people willing to use it as an excuse for slaughter, as
you do. Face it, Painter, when you advocate genocide, you're no better
than the Islamic fanatics in Saudi Arabia calling for the annihilation
of the infidels, or the racialist bigots of Nazi Germany screaming for
the elimination of the Jews. Moreover, you should get something
through your thick, Southern skull before you and people like you
do something stupid: there are Islamic countries that possess nuclear
capabilities. You're not going to be able to murder the people of
those countries without getting something back in return. You need
to calm down and quit watching those hick preachers on T.V. on Sunday.
Maybe you should get out of your easy chair and go to a real Christian
church and learn some real Christianity before you shoot off your
mouth on this newsgroup and make a fool of yourself like Reg.

Tom Donaly, KA6RUH



I never made the argument that Christians should rise up against Islam, you
did. You're as fond of attacking Christians as anything else you don't
understand, but we could leave that out of the discussion easily, as it just
gets you more confused and doesn't answer the problem that I stated, which
was:


We have not declared war on the nation of islam, but we should, because

they

have long ago declared war on the west and all of our tenets of free
religion, free economies and forms of self-government.


Read that to yourself a few times, Tom.

I may have a big mouth, but I will not apologize for the beliefs and
fundamentals that made western life the best the world has ever known. It is
also the only system of beliefs that sacrifices our sons and daughters to
free others from tyranny, and to educate and promote free trade that allows
employment of all in an honest living. That saps like you will argue
everything Americans say or do is more evidence that we are truly a divided
country. But what divides us in not what the muslims want to kill us for,
and you are too much of an ass to see that you will be as dead a sap-sucker
as I will be a patriot, unless we agree on the definition of islam as evil.
That has nothing whatsoever to do with christianity or any other religion.
It is reality.

Other places your stereotype darts landed were also wrong; I grew up in the
north-east, have a bachelor of science from a northern school (minor in
poli-sci), and was also educated in West Germany where I was an exchange
student for a year. I traveled all over europe then and many times later,
not counting my service as a launch operations supervisor aboard a ballistic
missile sub, forward deployed in scotland. I'm well aware of the atrocities
of nazi germany, and its another mark of your ignorance that you could
assume you know what my education and experience was there. Want to teach me
some more about who has nuclear weapons next? My "thick southern skull" is
so ripe for your vast knowledge of tripe, tom.

Islam and its muslim cronies that have been the cause of crusades in the
past and are causing history to repeat itself now. I never heard any tv
preacher say that, it's as obvious as the day is light. Maybe you folks in
california just don't appreciate what it felt like to have one plane load of
muslim suicide-bombers fly over you and then crash in your state, and have
another one headed for the same place, fall a little short. Or hear about
how two of the same bombers were in your city for two weeks scoping out weak
points in your seaport and military installations. But virginians do
remember that it was the city council of berkley california that made
several demands to the u.s. government to stop bombing japan even as we were
losing thousands of young marines and sailors every week to push the japanee
out of the occupied territories of the pacific. Good thing I don't believe
in stereotypes like you do, or else you and most of your state would be
given one-way tickets out.

Jack



Islam is no more evil than any other ancient religion, and even if
it were, you couldn't stop it by aping it. As for this wonderful
country, it wasn't built on the principals of ethnic hatred and
genocide (if you leave out what happened to the Native Americans).
You may be from the North East, but your intellect is straight out of
the middle ages, just like that of the people you profess to hate.
It's a good thing most people don't share your views. The U.S. would
quickly deteriorate into a second-rate country of religious fanatics,
ethnic bigots and tribalists making us ripe for exploitation by any
people who were willing to exploit our backwardness.

Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

"Cecil Moore" wrote

Jack Painter wrote:
"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
How do you feel about the sacking of Constantinople?

"the sacking"? 1204 or 1453?

The 1204 sacking of the Christian city by Christian
Crusaders during the Fourth Crusade.

"Eventually, the crusaders were victorious, and the citizens of the
city, strangely, at least to western eyes, welcomed them into the city
as usurpers, not as conquerors. The crusaders did not see it this way,
and they inflicted a horrible and savage sacking on Constantinople for
three days, during which many ancient works of art were stolen or
destroyed."

How does one defend those Christian acts?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


Sympathizers of islam? (greek v latin *). Selected dates:

626: Siege of Constantinople by Persians and Avars
674-78: Siege of Constantinople by Arabs
717-18: Second siege of Constantinople by Arabs
1054: Schism between Eastern (Greek) and Western (Latin) Churches *
1097: First crusade
1147: Second Crusade. Normans capture Corfu, Corinth and Thebes
1182: Massacre of Latins in Constantinople *
1204: Capture of Constantinople by Fourth Crusade and establishment of Latin
Empire *
1261: Recapture of Constantinople by Nicaean force and end of Latin Empire
1397-1402: Siege of Constantinople by Sultan Bajezid
1422: Murad besieges Constantinople
1453: Turks take Constantinople on May 29.

How do the battles to contain muslims then differ from now?

Islam and the Theology of Power
A Muslim scholar looks at Islamism
http://www.islamfortoday.com/elfadl01.htm

El Fadl says that Islamism is at its core a,
.... supremacist puritanism that compensates for feelings of defeat,
disempowerment and alienation with a distinct sense of self-righteous
arrogance vis-à-vis the nondescript "other" -- whether the other is the
West, non-believers in general or even Muslims of a different sect and
Muslim women. In this sense, it is accurate to describe this widespread
modern trend as supremacist, for it sees the world from the perspective of
stations of merit and extreme polarization.

Read the whole thing. It's eye opening.

73,
Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia

Tom Donaly wrote:
A long, long message. Never saw so many "whereases". Thought we would
never get to a "therefore".

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

Jack Painter wrote:
Read the whole thing. It's eye opening.

Read the whole Bible. It's eye opening. Particularly
the part advocating stoning to death all adulterers.
Thou shalt not kill (except adulterers).

Islam, Christianity, and Judaism all have the identical
God-head and share many books of the Bible. Allah,
Jehovah, and Yahweh are all the same divine entity,
a member of the Elohim (plural gods) clan. When Jesus
prayed in Aramaic, he prayed to Allah. Under Islam,
Jesus is considered to have been a great prophet.
Jesus' image hangs in many Islamic mosques.

Stirring up hatred for Islam is just as evil as stirring
up hatred for Christianity, Judaism, or any other religion.
It is definitely NOT what Jesus taught so you are not
following your religious teachings any better than
the Islamic terrorists are following their religious
teachings. Shame on you.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Richard Harrison wrote:
Tom Donaly wrote:
A long, long message. Never saw so many "whereases". Thought we would
never get to a "therefore".

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI


Hi Richard,
if you don't like the message, don't read it.
Are you an advocate of religious intolerance, too?
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

"Cecil Moore" wrote
Jack Painter wrote:
Read the whole thing. It's eye opening.

Read the whole Bible. It's eye opening. Particularly
the part advocating stoning to death all adulterers.
Thou shalt not kill (except adulterers).

Allow me to introduce you to the New Testament, which while acknolwedging
the history and covenants formed in most of the Old Testament, includes the
spoken words of the Lord Jesus Christ, the one and only Savior. Taken as a
whole, these testaments together form the basis for Christianity.


Islam, Christianity, and Judaism all have the identical
God-head and share many books of the Bible. Allah,
Jehovah, and Yahweh are all the same divine entity,
a member of the Elohim (plural gods) clan. When Jesus
prayed in Aramaic, he prayed to Allah. Under Islam,
Jesus is considered to have been a great prophet.
Jesus' image hangs in many Islamic mosques.

Stirring up hatred for Islam is just as evil as stirring
up hatred for Christianity, Judaism, or any other religion.
It is definitely NOT what Jesus taught so you are not
following your religious teachings any better than
the Islamic terrorists are following their religious
teachings. Shame on you.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

I don't need to bring whatever religion (or lack thereof in 90% of liberals
and probably 50% of conservatives today) is followed in the United States in
order to argue for the destruction of Islam, before it destroys us. And if
you do insist on bringing up Christianity and calling me shameful or without
belief of the teachings of Christ, then please cite where you think Christ
wanted us to succumb to evil or murderous practice, whether on the highway
or by foreign invasion. Some duties He said were the job of the state, and
that is where our influence comes into play, as we are part of the state in
any system of self government. Bringing a highwayman to the magistrate (dead
or alive), foreign or domestic terrorists to trial (same condition applies),
or defeating a whole army of evil (read MUSLIM, socialist, communist, etc)
is the job of the state. I was a volunteer then and now for the "state". And
I am still a Christian, though it is no business of yours whether a religion
is the background for the #1 law of nature or not: self preservation. As a
people, as a country, and as any of the freely practiced religions
(including none at all for atheists) we are at war with Islam, whether you
admit this or not. There is enough evidence to convince a misbehaving child
of this fact, but you can certainly set a new standard for misbehavior
there - as long as you stay out of our way while the rest of us survive.

73, Jack

Cecil Moore wrote:
Jack Painter wrote:

In the meantime, maybe you can point to
some evidence of Christians doing that anywhere in the world, ever.


How do you feel about the sacking of Constanople?

Most cultures have advanced in the last 800 years.

ac6xg

Jack Painter wrote:
"Cecil Moore" wrote

Jack Painter wrote:

Read the whole thing. It's eye opening.

Read the whole Bible. It's eye opening. Particularly
the part advocating stoning to death all adulterers.
Thou shalt not kill (except adulterers).


Allow me to introduce you to the New Testament, which while acknolwedging
the history and covenants formed in most of the Old Testament, includes the
spoken words of the Lord Jesus Christ, the one and only Savior. Taken as a
whole, these testaments together form the basis for Christianity.


Islam, Christianity, and Judaism all have the identical
God-head and share many books of the Bible. Allah,
Jehovah, and Yahweh are all the same divine entity,
a member of the Elohim (plural gods) clan. When Jesus
prayed in Aramaic, he prayed to Allah. Under Islam,
Jesus is considered to have been a great prophet.
Jesus' image hangs in many Islamic mosques.

Stirring up hatred for Islam is just as evil as stirring
up hatred for Christianity, Judaism, or any other religion.
It is definitely NOT what Jesus taught so you are not
following your religious teachings any better than
the Islamic terrorists are following their religious
teachings. Shame on you.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


I don't need to bring whatever religion (or lack thereof in 90% of liberals
and probably 50% of conservatives today) is followed in the United States in
order to argue for the destruction of Islam, before it destroys us. And if
you do insist on bringing up Christianity and calling me shameful or without
belief of the teachings of Christ, then please cite where you think Christ
wanted us to succumb to evil or murderous practice, whether on the highway
or by foreign invasion. Some duties He said were the job of the state, and
that is where our influence comes into play, as we are part of the state in
any system of self government. Bringing a highwayman to the magistrate (dead
or alive), foreign or domestic terrorists to trial (same condition applies),
or defeating a whole army of evil (read MUSLIM, socialist, communist, etc)
is the job of the state. I was a volunteer then and now for the "state". And
I am still a Christian, though it is no business of yours whether a religion
is the background for the #1 law of nature or not: self preservation. As a
people, as a country, and as any of the freely practiced religions
(including none at all for atheists) we are at war with Islam, whether you
admit this or not. There is enough evidence to convince a misbehaving child
of this fact, but you can certainly set a new standard for misbehavior
there - as long as you stay out of our way while the rest of us survive.

73, Jack



One of the fastest growing religions in the U.S. today is Islam. Muslims
participate in all parts of society, including national defense. Like it
or not, Jack, your jihad against Islam is doomed to failure, just as
your sick version of Christianity is. The Wahhabists of Saudi Arabia
are certainly loathsome people, but you're not doing the world, or
yourself, a favor by patterning your behavior after them.

Tom Donaly, KA6RUH