Reg, G4FGQ wrote:
"It`s purely a matter of Spherical Geometry"

Edmund A. Laport agrees with Reg in his book "Radio Antenna
Engineering". On page 227 Ed writes:
"If, for example, the computed vertical beam angle for a one-hop circuit
uses 6 degrees at an azimuth of 332 degrees and the horizon in this
direction consisted of a mountain range with a height of 8 degrees, the
performance of the circuit would be greatly compromised by the
obstruction of the mountains. In such a case it might be better to work
this circuit with two hops. Then a vertical beam angle of 20 degrees can
be used instead, with adequate horizon clearance for the wave path. Or
if the circuit required 6 degrees for a two-hop circuit 5400 kilometers
long, with the same obstruction cited, one could change to a three-hop
circuit which for the same layer height would permit the use of a beam
at 14 degrees."

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

"Richard Harrison" wrote in message
...
Reg, G4FGQ wrote:
"It`s purely a matter of Spherical Geometry"

Edmund A. Laport agrees with Reg in his book "Radio Antenna
Engineering". On page 227 Ed writes:
"If, for example, the computed vertical beam angle for a one-hop circuit
uses 6 degrees at an azimuth of 332 degrees and the horizon in this
direction consisted of a mountain range with a height of 8 degrees, the
performance of the circuit would be greatly compromised by the
obstruction of the mountains. In such a case it might be better to work
this circuit with two hops. Then a vertical beam angle of 20 degrees can
be used instead, with adequate horizon clearance for the wave path. Or
if the circuit required 6 degrees for a two-hop circuit 5400 kilometers
long, with the same obstruction cited, one could change to a three-hop
circuit which for the same layer height would permit the use of a beam
at 14 degrees."

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI



OR ....... you take advantage of diffraction abilities of physical parts
such as
mountain edges or other physical parts that can deflect the rays AFTER it
leaves
the FEED POINT which does NOT exclude an antenna array of which the feed
point
is part. The point of confusion emanates from.calculating hop distance on
the
basis of a :"standard:". TOA The "magic" of a stacked antenna exposes
the difference
:that occurs with a different TOA.
I suppose you could use Reg's program so that when the ideal conditions do
occur
maybe after several hours of waiting , when one can say that the upper
layers are now
exactly such or such a height and the assumption used in formulating the
program
are now correct. The fact is that ham radio is about formulating an array
that will
provide the hop distance required by the operator since that is something
he can change.
I am quite sure that LaPorte does NOT say that no amount of shaking an
antenna can
change the hop distance which is what TOA is all about and the subject of
this thread.
Maybe we need another thread to clarify the question that Reg and yourself
are
apparently addressing.

Art

"Reg Edwards" wrote

These days we have other forms of suicide. There are people who are
living
such enforced miserable lives and in such oppressed conditions they prefer
to sacrifice their own lives in the hope of improving the future lives of
their families and their decendents.

Citizens of the United States, and others, ask yourselves WHY?
----
Reg, Amateur Radio, G4FGQ

Reg,

The alleged conditions you describe are not found in the people who do this,
and if it were present would still have zero bearing on the cause of these
lunatic suicides. Fractional existence and/or slavery may be found all over
the globe and was rarely ever a cause of such insanity. Only the influence
of Islam allows such departure from humanity and any hope of a better life
here on earth. Islam executes this insane belief not only on others, but on
themselves. A combination of education and eradication (genocide) may be
applied as needed to calm this insanity. Londoners have their own form of
insanity, that of banning guns from law abiding citizens whilst encouraging
Muslim Mosques to add to the near 40% Muslim population who preach for the
destruction of the West from inside the London city gates.

Regards,

Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia

Jack, who are the lunatics? To have faith in your religeon or beliefs is not
insane,
We have christians who have faith in religeon and beliefs. In war many have
given up their lives
to save others and we have in fact declared war against a religeon.,
Regarding Londoners having their own form of sanity, go to Hyde Park corner
on a sunday
and hear the free speech that is the right of all even if you may disagree
with it..
Regarding the gates of London of which there are eight which surround one
square mile
if you say that 40,000 dwell inside those gates then many must be squatters
inside the palace walls.
Reg is speaking as a European where the main threat of war in the world is
seen to come from the Middle East
with the help of the U.S. Why else would we deliver 50 of our most
sophisticated deep concrete bunker
smart bombs? Surely not for destruction of tents and shacks but more
probably to penetrate heavily concrete
nuclear energy stations like their own. I believe Reg is sincere and correct
in asking the USA from the other side of the pond regarding what we do in
the Middle East. WHY?
As far as banning guns, I do believe they ban hand grenades and a plethoria
of other weapons that can only
be used to kill people. It is a democratic country and it is the peoples
will, why are you concerned about it?.
If there are many close by to you who have the same beliefs as you regarding
genocide you may have to coinsider
whether you want to kill or be considered to be one endangered by the
killing. Your religion may well be different
to your immediate population
Regards
Art

"Jack Painter" wrote in message
news:MfqRd.47386$EG1.7785@lakeread04...

"Reg Edwards" wrote

These days we have other forms of suicide. There are people who are
living
such enforced miserable lives and in such oppressed conditions they
prefer
to sacrifice their own lives in the hope of improving the future lives of
their families and their decendents.

Citizens of the United States, and others, ask yourselves WHY?
----
Reg, Amateur Radio, G4FGQ

Reg,

The alleged conditions you describe are not found in the people who do
this,
and if it were present would still have zero bearing on the cause of these
lunatic suicides. Fractional existence and/or slavery may be found all
over
the globe and was rarely ever a cause of such insanity. Only the
influence
of Islam allows such departure from humanity and any hope of a better life
here on earth. Islam executes this insane belief not only on others, but
on
themselves. A combination of education and eradication (genocide) may be
applied as needed to calm this insanity. Londoners have their own form of
insanity, that of banning guns from law abiding citizens whilst
encouraging
Muslim Mosques to add to the near 40% Muslim population who preach for the
destruction of the West from inside the London city gates.

Regards,

Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia

Hello Art,

I've been to London, and I never heard lunatics advocating the violent
destruction of all things related to the "West" as we know it. But then I
stayed out of Mosques, too. The reference to the city gates was anecdotal
only. The 40% was a figure given to me by a London couple I met last week,
when I quoted 30% muslim population living in London, apparently an old
figure. This particular British couple I met happen to approve of both
President George Bush and our mutual (countries) efforts to eradicate
radical muslim actors. They also have a soldier-son in Kuwait so perhaps
they are privy to information we are not.

We have not declared war on the nation of islam, but we should, because they
have long ago declared war on the west and all of our tenets of free
religion, free economies and forms of self-government.

Wise up and stop defending that which is focused on your own destruction. It
has nothing to do with free speech. It has everything to do with survival. I
don't mince words, and genocide is exactly what it will take to survive the
onslaught of islam. Education may prevent it from reaching the level of
insanity it presently enjoys. It enjoys this status largely due to the
tolerance of fools who think their elected legislators represent them.
Perhaps Reg remembers when Chamberlain lied to his countrymen, waiving the
"peace is at hand" (paraphrased, Art) toilet paper that Nazi Germany gave
him. Saying that Islam is a "peaceful religion" is the same rubbish.

Regards,
Jack

" wrote

Jack, who are the lunatics? To have faith in your religeon or beliefs is
not
insane,
We have christians who have faith in religeon and beliefs. In war many
have
given up their lives
to save others and we have in fact declared war against a religeon.,
Regarding Londoners having their own form of sanity, go to Hyde Park
corner
on a sunday
and hear the free speech that is the right of all even if you may disagree
with it..
Regarding the gates of London of which there are eight which surround one
square mile
if you say that 40,000 dwell inside those gates then many must be
squatters
inside the palace walls.
Reg is speaking as a European where the main threat of war in the world is
seen to come from the Middle East
with the help of the U.S. Why else would we deliver 50 of our most
sophisticated deep concrete bunker
smart bombs? Surely not for destruction of tents and shacks but more
probably to penetrate heavily concrete
nuclear energy stations like their own. I believe Reg is sincere and
correct
in asking the USA from the other side of the pond regarding what we do in
the Middle East. WHY?
As far as banning guns, I do believe they ban hand grenades and a
plethoria
of other weapons that can only
be used to kill people. It is a democratic country and it is the peoples
will, why are you concerned about it?.
If there are many close by to you who have the same beliefs as you
regarding
genocide you may have to coinsider
whether you want to kill or be considered to be one endangered by the
killing. Your religion may well be different
to your immediate population
Regards
Art

"Jack Painter" wrote in message
news:MfqRd.47386$EG1.7785@lakeread04...

"Reg Edwards" wrote

These days we have other forms of suicide. There are people who are
living
such enforced miserable lives and in such oppressed conditions they
prefer
to sacrifice their own lives in the hope of improving the future lives
of
their families and their decendents.

Citizens of the United States, and others, ask yourselves WHY?
----
Reg, Amateur Radio, G4FGQ

Reg,

The alleged conditions you describe are not found in the people who do
this,
and if it were present would still have zero bearing on the cause of
these
lunatic suicides. Fractional existence and/or slavery may be found all
over
the globe and was rarely ever a cause of such insanity. Only the
influence
of Islam allows such departure from humanity and any hope of a better
life
here on earth. Islam executes this insane belief not only on others, but
on
themselves. A combination of education and eradication (genocide) may be
applied as needed to calm this insanity. Londoners have their own form
of
insanity, that of banning guns from law abiding citizens whilst
encouraging
Muslim Mosques to add to the near 40% Muslim population who preach for
the
destruction of the West from inside the London city gates.

Regards,

Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia

Art Unwin wrote:
"---go to Hyde Park Corner on Sunday---"

I did and though it had been 50 years since I last listened, I hadn`t
missed a thing. The soap box orators were saying the same things about
the same topics. There are still "Troubles" with Ireland.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

Art Unwin wrote:
"Jack, who are the lunatics?"

The suicide bombers are lunatics. Self preservation and survival are
natural instincts. When you don`t love life, you`re nuts!

I saw a U.S. Marine in Baghdad on TV yesterday who said he wasn`t keen
on dying for his country but he wanted to live to fight for his country.
He has it right and that marine is apparently completely sane.

Several crusades have been launched from Europe against Islam. Most were
failures. Bush mis-spoke when once calling his Iraq incursion a
"crusade". The war has unified Islam against the U.S.A. But, the whole
Ialamic world has not declared war on the U.S.A. and it won`t. The Iraq
war must be won and the Iraqis must be pacified whatever it takes. The
U.S., U.K. and their allies shall prevail. Why they haven`t hired
soldiers of fortune to imflict on Iraq is a mystery to me.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

Jack Painter wrote:
"Reg Edwards" wrote


These days we have other forms of suicide. There are people who are

living

such enforced miserable lives and in such oppressed conditions they prefer
to sacrifice their own lives in the hope of improving the future lives of
their families and their decendents.

Citizens of the United States, and others, ask yourselves WHY?
----
Reg, Amateur Radio, G4FGQ


Reg,

The alleged conditions you describe are not found in the people who do this,
and if it were present would still have zero bearing on the cause of these
lunatic suicides. Fractional existence and/or slavery may be found all over
the globe and was rarely ever a cause of such insanity. Only the influence
of Islam allows such departure from humanity and any hope of a better life
here on earth. Islam executes this insane belief not only on others, but on
themselves. A combination of education and eradication (genocide) may be
applied as needed to calm this insanity. Londoners have their own form of
insanity, that of banning guns from law abiding citizens whilst encouraging
Muslim Mosques to add to the near 40% Muslim population who preach for the
destruction of the West from inside the London city gates.

Regards,

Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia




Religious fanatics of every stripe are dangerous, whether they be
Christian, Hindu, Moslem or anything else. So, too, are political
fanatics. The West has plenty of both.

Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

Jack Painter wrote:

Hello Art,

I've been to London, and I never heard lunatics advocating the violent
destruction of all things related to the "West" as we know it. But then I
stayed out of Mosques, too. The reference to the city gates was anecdotal
only. The 40% was a figure given to me by a London couple I met last week,
when I quoted 30% muslim population living in London, apparently an old
figure. This particular British couple I met happen to approve of both
President George Bush and our mutual (countries) efforts to eradicate
radical muslim actors. They also have a soldier-son in Kuwait so perhaps
they are privy to information we are not.

We have not declared war on the nation of islam, but we should, because they
have long ago declared war on the west and all of our tenets of free
religion, free economies and forms of self-government.

Wise up and stop defending that which is focused on your own destruction. It
has nothing to do with free speech. It has everything to do with survival. I
don't mince words, and genocide is exactly what it will take to survive the
onslaught of islam. Education may prevent it from reaching the level of
insanity it presently enjoys. It enjoys this status largely due to the
tolerance of fools who think their elected legislators represent them.
Perhaps Reg remembers when Chamberlain lied to his countrymen, waiving the
"peace is at hand" (paraphrased, Art) toilet paper that Nazi Germany gave
him. Saying that Islam is a "peaceful religion" is the same rubbish.

Regards,
Jack

" wrote


Jack, who are the lunatics? To have faith in your religeon or beliefs is

not

insane,
We have christians who have faith in religeon and beliefs. In war many

have

given up their lives
to save others and we have in fact declared war against a religeon.,
Regarding Londoners having their own form of sanity, go to Hyde Park

corner

on a sunday
and hear the free speech that is the right of all even if you may disagree
with it..
Regarding the gates of London of which there are eight which surround one
square mile
if you say that 40,000 dwell inside those gates then many must be

squatters

inside the palace walls.
Reg is speaking as a European where the main threat of war in the world is
seen to come from the Middle East
with the help of the U.S. Why else would we deliver 50 of our most
sophisticated deep concrete bunker
smart bombs? Surely not for destruction of tents and shacks but more
probably to penetrate heavily concrete
nuclear energy stations like their own. I believe Reg is sincere and

correct

in asking the USA from the other side of the pond regarding what we do in
the Middle East. WHY?
As far as banning guns, I do believe they ban hand grenades and a

plethoria

of other weapons that can only
be used to kill people. It is a democratic country and it is the peoples
will, why are you concerned about it?.
If there are many close by to you who have the same beliefs as you

regarding

genocide you may have to coinsider
whether you want to kill or be considered to be one endangered by the
killing. Your religion may well be different
to your immediate population
Regards
Art

"Jack Painter" wrote in message
news:MfqRd.47386$EG1.7785@lakeread04...

"Reg Edwards" wrote


These days we have other forms of suicide. There are people who are

living

such enforced miserable lives and in such oppressed conditions they
prefer
to sacrifice their own lives in the hope of improving the future lives

of

their families and their decendents.

Citizens of the United States, and others, ask yourselves WHY?
----
Reg, Amateur Radio, G4FGQ

Reg,

The alleged conditions you describe are not found in the people who do
this,
and if it were present would still have zero bearing on the cause of

these

lunatic suicides. Fractional existence and/or slavery may be found all
over
the globe and was rarely ever a cause of such insanity. Only the
influence
of Islam allows such departure from humanity and any hope of a better

life

here on earth. Islam executes this insane belief not only on others, but
on
themselves. A combination of education and eradication (genocide) may be
applied as needed to calm this insanity. Londoners have their own form

of

insanity, that of banning guns from law abiding citizens whilst
encouraging
Muslim Mosques to add to the near 40% Muslim population who preach for

the

destruction of the West from inside the London city gates.

Regards,

Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia








Islam can be a beautiful, satisfying religion, or it can not. Like
some of the gutter Christian sects infesting America there are people
who profess a belief in God who would use that belief as an excuse
for killing innocent people. People who preach genocide are low,
anti-social, dangerous, and a danger to society and should be locked
up to keep them from doing harm.

Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

Aunwin, it is indeed reassuring to hear from a USA citizen, a voter, who can
distinguish between the weapons of mass-destruction possessed and EXTREMELY
EXTENSIVLY USED by the USA during the last 60 years on the towns, cities,
rice fields and jungles of innumerable countries of this small Earth of
ours, as distinct from civilised Briitish Gun Laws and the mixed-up
religious population proportions of this still-free country.


Some people need to be reminded there has NOT YET been a single so-called
terrorist attack on the UK by anybody except, for many years, by the Irish
Republican Army, which is but one of the many disruptive international
organisations financed by the CIA and, via USA taxpayers, the USA
government.


But, as the USA government quite openly states, all is being done in the
very well-worth-while interests of USA citizens. Who can blame them? They
are only ordinary human beings after all.


To them, including USA drug-addicted soldiers, their lives are considerably
more important than the remaining five billions of humanity who are doing
their best against Aids, Earth warming, chicken flue virus, earthquakes,
floods, starvation by the tens of millions, and shortages of clean water.

Solution - bring the International Energy Corporations under control.

It must now be assumed I am on the master list of the CIA's Dirty Tricks
Dept computer and liable to disappear from circulation at any time.

And, to return to topic, to keep yourself sane, get yourself a free program.
----
.................................................. ..........
Regards from Reg, G4FGQ
For Free Radio Design Software go to
http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp
.................................................. ..........