Radio amateurs and just as many professionals suffer from delusions of
accuracy where RF measurements are concerned.

Especially HF current and power measurememts.

Far too much importance is attached to names like GR and HP and Fluke rather
than their own abilitity to assess and sum the accumulation of measuring
errors.

--
=======================
Regards from Reg, G4FGQ
For Free Radio Design Software
go to http://www.g4fgq.com
=======================
"Mark Keith" wrote in message
om...
oSaddam (Yuri Blanarovich) wrote in message
...
But....Just using my built in
"BS" filter only, which rarely seems to fails me, and ignoring all
other influences, I still have to side with Tom. I still think the
current is fairly constant.

Nothing
personal either way...But I have learned never to ignore my BS filter,
so I'm going with it. MK


Same here,
did your filter filtered out W5DXP pudding? The "theoretical" proof is
right
there. Or are you drinking the same coolaide as Tom? :-)

Yuri

Reality vs. Speculations? Duuuh?''

Oh, purely speculation on my part. I have no easy way of really
knowing the reality. There is a small part that keeps bugging me, but
I'd have to see for sure where he is measuring the currents. I missed
the pix on the site. I'll assume for now he measured at each end of
the coil, pretty much at the connection to the mast or whip. The part
the bugs me is a possible stunting of the current at the top of the
coil due to the capacitance it is looking at, at the end of the coil.
To my thinking, once you leave the coil, even right at the end, you
should see a reduction of current, compared to say even a turn or two
from the top of the coil. I'm just wondering if this may be giving a
false indication of the true currents within the coil,if he is
measuring slightly outside of the coil. I'd be more satisfied if he
could measure a few turns from each end "using a large, many turns,
coil for 80 or 160" to get a general view within the windings
themselves. But I realize this could be very difficult. You all may be
totally correct. I'd just like to be a little better convinced before
I totally agree. I expect a slight decrease in current at the top vs
bottom. But I don't expect it to be large. I also don't expect the
bottom of the coil to be "hot", with a radical current taper on the
upper windings. The main thing I see to causing a reduction of
current , is the stinger on top of the coil. "capacitance" I wonder if
he is seeing the effects of that capacitance in his lower measurement?
Only the shadow knows for sure....:/
As far as the reverse currents Cecil mentions, I'd have to ponder that
a while.
Seems to me that could wildly vary from antenna to antenna depending
on height, coil positions, any top loading, etc..Although it looks
good on paper, I smell a hook. So I'd have to think about that more.
BTW, this amount of current in the coil, is something I've also
thought about myself. I've just come to the "different" conclusion
it's fairly constant through the coil. I could always be wrong.
Wouldn't be the first time.. But I need to see/hear a bit more to be
convinced. MK

Reg finally figured it out:

Radio amateurs and just as many professionals suffer from delusions of
accuracy where RF measurements are concerned.

Especially HF current and power measurememts.

Far too much importance is attached to names like GR and HP and Fluke rather
than their own abilitity to assess and sum the accumulation of measuring
errors.

Thank goodness we have your formulas, failproof programs and variety of
speculations. Gentlemen, case is solved, closed. We can't measure it, we are
all bunch of dumb delusional morons with faulty instruments who don't know how
to use them. Current must be the same in the coil according to Rauch, Kirchoff,
Ohm, Reg. So now make your antennas out of coils, you will have constant
current radiator tip to tip with 300% efficiency and you can throw your
instruments away. Reg has the formula for it, use it!

Seriously, I thank you Cecil, Fred and few others who enlightened our case,
that's what I was hoping for and found it here. It will be the springboard for
further development, it already gave me some ideas how to improve efficiency of
loaded aerials. The others from the flat earth society showed their colors and
they ain't pretty. Just like democRATs, when they are deficient in arguments
they triviliarize and ridicule.
We are planning mobile antenna shootout here on east coast in the spring, so
get your wares ready and see who is da king koil.

Yuri, da BU/m

Yuri Blanarovich wrote:
Current must be the same in the coil according to Rauch, Kirchoff,
Ohm, Reg.

Kirchhoff and Ohm were not wrong. For a lossless coil, the forward current
magnitude must be the same in the coil and the reflected current magnitude
must be the same in the coil. But the net current is the sum of those two
component waves which have phase angles rotating in opposite directions.
The basic problem is using lumped circuit calculations for a distributed
network problem, a well known no-no.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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