Over The Hill wrote:
However, the really really good ones have something
extra which is learned from books. Those are the special ones, the
inventors.


Sorry, should read:

However, the really really good ones have something
extra which is *not* learned from books. Those are the special
ones, the
inventors.


--
Over The Hill
__________________________________________________ ___________________________

The question of whether computers can think is like the question of
whether submarines can swim.

***Edsgar Dijkstra***

Wayne Watson wrote:
"What about the underlying methodology behind this?"

Please refer to the 3rd. edition of "Antennas for All Applications", by
John D. Kraus with a host of other professors, for answers to nearly all
your questions. Kraus organizes antennas by types.

The dipole is the simplest complete antenna. But, the first practical
antenna was patented by Marconi. He was interested in communications
over the ocean, so only 1/2 of a dipole is needed. The return circuit is
provided by the ocean. Sea water is nearly lossless.

Marconi imagined the antenna as a capacitor plate.. Then he discovered
the antenna worked about as well with just the connectng wires inplace,
without the plate. As the 19th century turned into the 20th century,
Marconi spanned the Atlantic with signals from his antennas.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

Richard Harrison wrote:

Wayne Watson wrote:
"What about the underlying methodology behind this?"

Please refer to the 3rd. edition of "Antennas for All Applications", by
John D. Kraus with a host of other professors, for answers to nearly all
your questions. Kraus organizes antennas by types.

The dipole is the simplest complete antenna. But, the first practical
antenna was patented by Marconi. He was interested in communications
over the ocean, so only 1/2 of a dipole is needed. The return circuit is
provided by the ocean. Sea water is nearly lossless.

Marconi imagined the antenna as a capacitor plate.. Then he discovered
the antenna worked about as well with just the connectng wires inplace,
without the plate. As the 19th century turned into the 20th century,
Marconi spanned the Atlantic with signals from his antennas.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

A book by that title was not found on Amazon. You're not thinking of the
latest edition of his "Antennas" are you?


--
Wayne T. Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)
(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Traveling in remote places in the winter. What's the best
tool to carry with you? An axe.
-- Survivorman, Discovery (SCI) Channel

Web Page: home.earthlink.net/~mtnviews

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 04:28:22 GMT, "W. Watson"
wrote:

A book by that title was not found on Amazon. You're not thinking of the
latest edition of his "Antennas" are you?

Hi OM,

Amazon is a poor start. Try a real book vendor:
http://www.alibris.com/search/search...*listing*title
where there are three available. You may not like the price, however.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard Clark wrote:

wrote:
A book by that title was not found on Amazon. You're not thinking of the
latest edition of his "Antennas" are you?

"for all applications" is part of a subtitle.

Amazon is a poor start. Try a real book vendor:
http://www.alibris.com/search/search...*listing*title
where there are three available. You may not like the price, however.

Prices ($31) are good he
http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/...072321032&x=44
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Cecil Moore wrote:

Richard Clark wrote:

wrote:

A book by that title was not found on Amazon. You're not thinking of
the latest edition of his "Antennas" are you?


"for all applications" is part of a subtitle.

Amazon is a poor start. Try a real book vendor:
http://www.alibris.com/search/search...*listing*title

where there are three available. You may not like the price, however.


Prices ($31) are good he
http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/...072321032&x=44
Interesting. It's in San Jose. I'll be there Saturday. I wonder where they
are? (Cheapestbooks). Interesting source.

When I was a student (a very long time ago), I would sometimes buy paperback
books of many texts from Blackwells in England. The price was usually about
1/2. Sometimes (back then, and maybe still), one could by tech books from
China that was on almost tissue paper pages. They were quite cheap.

--
Wayne T. Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)
(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Traveling in arid or desert country? Check your
boots well to see if you have a scorpion in them.
-- Survivorman, Discovery (SCI) Channel

Web Page: home.earthlink.net/~mtnviews

Richard Clark wrote:

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 04:28:22 GMT, "W. Watson"
wrote:


A book by that title was not found on Amazon. You're not thinking of the
latest edition of his "Antennas" are you?


Hi OM,

Amazon is a poor start. Try a real book vendor:
http://www.alibris.com/search/search...*listing*title
where there are three available. You may not like the price, however.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC
Yes, that is pretty steep. However, Kraus's 3rd edition of "Antennas" is
$165. I'll be down in the SF Bay Area this weekend. Maybe I can find it at a
library down there, or arrange to get an interlibrary loan. I use albris on
occasion. Glad you reminded me of it.

--
Wayne T. Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)
(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Traveling in arid or desert country? Check your
boots well to see if you have a scorpion in them.
-- Survivorman, Discovery (SCI) Channel

Web Page: home.earthlink.net/~mtnviews

I think many antenna designs arose as a matter of "necessity is the mother
of invention"

For example here is a Yagi antenna quote from URL:

http://ieee.cincinnati.fuse.net/newsletters/200405.pdf

At Tohoku, Yagi initiated a research program in radio-electronics drawing on
what he had learned from Barkhausen, Fleming, and Pierce. Other members of
the faculty and advanced students, including Okabe and Shintaro Uda, became
participants in a collective research effort. A perceived need for better
communication between islands and with ships led them to focus on short wave
communication with directive antennas. The Yagi group received financial
support for the research from a private foundation in Sendai. In February
1926, Yagi and Uda published their first report on the wave projector
antenna in a Japanese publication.

For the Cubical Quad see URL:

http://www.antennex.com/preview/Jan501/quad1.htm

Clarence Moore, the station engineer at HCJB in Quito, and some colleagues
took along with them a stack of antenna and engineering texts and a Bible on
a Sabbatical in 1942. Their urgent goal was to come up with an antenna that
wouldn't consume itself by corona discharge when fed with high power, as was
happening to their Yagi, at the high Andean altitude of their station. A
full wave loop solved the problem.

Some remarkable antenna designs today because of the need to fit an antenna
on a cell phone.

For direction finding, loops, interferometers, etc were needed

ETC
--
CL -- I doubt, therefore I might be !



"Wayne Watson" wrote in message
news
I hardly know where to start with this topic. If one picks up some of the
fairly popular (available?) books on the matter, the authors invariably
start throwing different types of antennas at the reader, yagi, helical,
dipole, folded dipole, parabolic, loop, dish, microwave, quads, etc. For
example, I'm looking at an older book on the topic I bought some 20 years
ago, The Radio Amateur Handbook by Orr and Cowan. The book is basically
for
builders. Many such books are. What about the underlying methodology
behind
this? More generally, here's my question.

I would guess that in the beginning (late 1800s) the simple dipole was it.
As years passed, the complexity of antennas has increased. What was the
driving force for these changes? For example, how did the inventor of the
Yagi (Yagi-Uda) ever dream up the idea for the antenna? Was it the
application of theory or did he just get lucky? In fact, is there some
underlying theory that drives the design of antennas? For example, the
computation of radiation patterns. I'm sure these days the computer would
be
an aid, but what theory and application drove the development of varied
designs before 1960? When did Maxwell's equations seriously get used for
this? What suggested a tin can could become an antenna? How did anyone
think
up the idea of a microwave antenna?

I would think that in the case of antennas that are used for different
parts
of the EM spectrum a driving force would be the consideration of the wave
itself. For example, it would seem unlikely an x-ray antenna (I believe
there is such a thing on one of the space satellites used in astronomy)
would be anything like one used to receive TV. Certainly the 'antenna' to
collect visible light is different than that for AM radio.

--
Wayne T. Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)
(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Traveling in remote places in the winter. What's the best
tool to carry with you? An axe.
-- Survivorman, Discovery (SCI) Channel

Web Page: home.earthlink.net/~mtnviews

Caveat Lector wrote:

I think many antenna designs arose as a matter of "necessity is the mother
of invention"

For example here is a Yagi antenna quote from URL:

http://ieee.cincinnati.fuse.net/newsletters/200405.pdf

At Tohoku, Yagi initiated a research program in radio-electronics drawing on
what he had learned from Barkhausen, Fleming, and Pierce. Other members of
the faculty and advanced students, including Okabe and Shintaro Uda, became
participants in a collective research effort. A perceived need for better
communication between islands and with ships led them to focus on short wave
communication with directive antennas. The Yagi group received financial
support for the research from a private foundation in Sendai. In February
1926, Yagi and Uda published their first report on the wave projector
antenna in a Japanese publication.

For the Cubical Quad see URL:

http://www.antennex.com/preview/Jan501/quad1.htm

Clarence Moore, the station engineer at HCJB in Quito, and some colleagues
took along with them a stack of antenna and engineering texts and a Bible on
a Sabbatical in 1942. Their urgent goal was to come up with an antenna that
wouldn't consume itself by corona discharge when fed with high power, as was
happening to their Yagi, at the high Andean altitude of their station. A
full wave loop solved the problem.

Some remarkable antenna designs today because of the need to fit an antenna
on a cell phone.

For direction finding, loops, interferometers, etc were needed

ETC
Yes, those are interesting insights. Kraus in "Antennas" offers several.

--
Wayne T. Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)
(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Traveling in remote places in the winter. What's the best
tool to carry with you? An axe.
-- Survivorman, Discovery (SCI) Channel

Web Page: home.earthlink.net/~mtnviews