Cecil Moore wrote:

Tom Donaly wrote:

Cecil, have you ever read the book _Don Quixote_, by Cervantes?
There's a character in there you remind me of.


Tom, please don't tell me that you also believe that a distributed-
network analysis using wave reflection theory is "gobbledygook".

It is when the components are small enough in relation to a wavelength
that you don't have to use "a distributed-network analysis". Actually,
the way you've been talking about it, lately, it sounds more like
word salad than gobbledygook.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

Cecil Moore wrote:
(snip)
We may understand the results of Tom's latest
measurement by considering the following:

50 ohm source===1 WL 50 ohm lossless coax===8+j2500 load
(snip)

I am not sure I understand this. As I understand an S parameter
tester, both source and load are 50 ohms. Tom says he fed and
monitored the signal with a pair of current transformers. I assume
that one transformer was fed from the 50 ohm source, and the other fed
the 50 ohm load, and S21 is the forward transfer gain parameter that
the analyzer can use to calculate a net delay at any frequency. But
if I am right about these connections, it leaves open the question of
what was on the other side of the current transformers, if the coil
was between them. Were those points grounded, terminated, what?

Tom Donaly wrote:
that sounds like Cecil's theory, which he's always ready to
defend with his strong right arm. I can't believe all the fuss he's made
over something as trivial as a loading coil.

As long as someone asserts that there is no phase shift
through a 75m mobile bugcatcher coil, I will continue
pointing out that they are wrong. The phase shift
through a 75m bugcatcher coil is approximately the
same as it is at the bugcatcher coil's self-resonant
frequency. That's simply a law of physics that some
people wish didn't exist but it does in spite of
their wishes.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

John Popelish wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:
We may understand the results of Tom's latest
measurement by considering the following:

50 ohm source===1 WL 50 ohm lossless coax===8+j2500 load

I am not sure I understand this. As I understand an S parameter tester,
both source and load are 50 ohms. Tom says he fed and monitored the
signal with a pair of current transformers.

I don't think he fed the coil with a current transformer.
I think he simply had the coil across the signal generator's
output terminals with current pickup devices at each end
of the coil. The above diagram doesn't change anything
about his configuration but does point out the conceptual
mistake he made which is the identical conceptual mistake
that he and Roy have been making for years. Their model
presupposes their measured results. How could their
results be anything else?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

http://www.w8ji.com/mobile_and_loaded_antenna.htm

http://www.w8ji.com/inductor_current_time_delay.htm

On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:12:11 GMT, "Jerry Martes"
wrote:

I have a HP8405A Vector Voltmeter I'll give you and even pay the shipping
if that is of any help with the measurements.

Hi Jerry,

So, any taker?

73's
Richard, KB7QHC

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:12:11 GMT, "Jerry Martes"
wrote:

I have a HP8405A Vector Voltmeter I'll give you and even pay the
shipping
if that is of any help with the measurements.

Hi Jerry,

So, any taker?

73's
Richard, KB7QHC

Hi Richard

No takers. No replies.

Jerry

wrote:
http://www.w8ji.com/inductor_current_time_delay.htm

Don't you think it only fair to to the readers to
indicate on that new web page that you measured
the current in the midst of of a 16000:1 SWR?
That's what I get for 8+j2500 being fed by a
50 ohm source.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Jerry Martes wrote:
No takers. No replies.

Jerry

Jerry, I've sent you two emails. Did you not get them?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
. com...
Jerry Martes wrote:
No takers. No replies.

Jerry

Jerry, I've sent you two emails. Did you not get them?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

No Cecil, I didnt. Maybe I wrote my address wrong.

I figured you realized that the HP Vector Voltmeter wasnt capable of
providing the data needed for this discussion.

Jerry KD6JDJ