Cecil Moore wrote:
You measured standing wave current, Tom. Your measurements are
meaningless! Standing wave current has the same constant phase
whether the coil exists or not. Your measurements prove absolutely
nothing that is not already known.

Nothing I have said has changed from what I've said for years.

Now you have magnetic fields traveling slower than light speed in air,
and have gone right back to the same nonsense of standing wave current.

Please tell us all how you would measure the "traveling current" while
ignoring "standing wave current".

This ought to be good.....

wrote:
Please tell us all how you would measure the "traveling current" while
ignoring "standing wave current".

Good question. One would ideally do it in a system without
reflections. I am struggling with that concept right now.

The best thought I have come up with so far is simple:

coil
+----////----+
| |
source --- cap
| ---
| |
+--/\/\/\/\--+
resistor

I'm not a measurements guy so I could use some help.

What's wrong with just reporting the measured the delay
through your test coils? Your measured data already
shows the current on one side of the coil to be
different from the current on the other side of the
coil. All we have to worry about now is the delay
through the coils.

If I've got your attention, let me repeat something I
posted days ago.

The forward current through the coil can indeed be assumed
to be equal magnitude at both ends of the coil without much
error. That should make you happy.

The delay through the coil is whatever it is but it is
nowhere near zero. I assume that makes you unhappy.

The reflected current through the coil can indeed be
assumed to be equal magnitude at both ends of the coil
without much error. That should make you happy.

The delay through the coil is whatever it is but it is
nowhere near zero. I assume that makes you unhappy.

The standing wave is the phasor sum of the forward wave
and reflected wave. Its magnitude can vary from about
double the forward current at a current loop to close to
zero at a current node. I assume that makes you unhappy.

The standing wave phase is close to constant and fixed
near zero degrees within 1/4WL of the feedpoint. I assume
that makes you happy.

So three out of six results should make you happy and
that's about all any mere mortal can hope for. :-)
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Cecil Moore wrote:


What's wrong with just reporting the measured the delay
through your test coils? Your measured data already
shows the current on one side of the coil to be
different from the current on the other side of the
coil. All we have to worry about now is the delay
through the coils.

What measurement are you talking about? The one I did over two years
ago that has been up on my web site since that time? Something on a
bench?

wrote:
What measurement are you talking about? The one I did over two years
ago that has been up on my web site since that time? Something on a
bench?

That one on your web site measured the standing wave
current. We know the phase of the standing wave current
is irrelevent since it is essentially the same whether
the coil is in or out of the circuit. i.e. there is
no such thing as standing wave current "delay" since
the phase of the standing wave current is essentially
fixed at (or near) zero degrees.

You have measured the S12 delay for 100uH at 1 MHz to
be -60 to -70 degrees. What we need is the equivalent
of the S12 delay for current, rather than for voltage.
What is the current delay througn the coil when no
reflections are present? In other words, if the coil
were installed in a traveling-wave antenna, like a
terminated rhombic, what would the delay be through
the coil?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp