Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #201   Report Post  
Old March 12th 06, 12:34 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Cecil Moore
 
Posts: n/a
Default Current through coils

wrote:
I offered to make a measurement if he would even loosely predict
results and tell us in advance what they would mean. When he didn't
respond, I made the measurements anyway.


Huh? I predicted 14 degrees at 1.9 MHz and 28 degrees at 3.8 MHz
based on Reg's assertion that the coil was self-resonant at 12 MHz.
Once you know the self-resonant frequency, the VF can be calculated.
From there, one can calculate a ballpark delay through the coil.
Your 3 nS measurement seems outside of all possiblity.

This is really simple physics, Tom. If your measurements disagree
with the boundary conditions set by the laws of distributed-
network physics then something is wrong with your measurements.

Let's take a closer look. If the delay through the coil is indeed
3 nS at 4 MHz, the phase shift through the coil at 4 MHz is 4.32
degrees. For a self-resonant phase shift of 90 degrees, the self-
resonant frequency of the coil has to be near (90/4.32)4 MHz =
83 MHz. Now if the self-resonant frequency is really 83 MHz, all
is well, and your measurements agree with distributed network
theory.

But, Tom, don't you think you are insulting our intelligence when
your 100uH coil must have a self-resonant frequency of 83 MHz and
a velocity factor of 0.28 for your measurements to be valid? My
75m bugcatcher coil has a VF of 0.015. Why is your coil 20 times
better than my bugcatcher?

And I have that same coil with 68.5 turns but it is self-resonant
at 57 MHz. How do you explain 2/3 of the number of turns being
self-resonant 25 MHz lower? If you cannot, something is wrong with
your measurements. Don't you care that your 3 nS results are so
outside the bounds of possibility as to be laughable?

Please measure the self-resonant frequency of that coil, Tom.
If it's not 83 MHz, your measurements are bogus. I suggest the
self-resonant frequency is actually lower than the 12 MHz
predicted by Reg.

Incidentally, the IEEE would surely be interested in your ability
to violate the distributed-network laws of physics. Maybe you
can talk them into replacing that body of physics with your pet
lumped-circuit model. Good luck on that one.

3 nS delay through a 100 uH coil???? That would be funny if it
was April First. That's why I requested that you describe your
test setup which you refused to do.
--
73, Cecil
http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp
  #202   Report Post  
Old March 12th 06, 12:36 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Cecil Moore
 
Posts: n/a
Default Current through coils

Richard Clark wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:
I was as naive as Galileo in front of the court run by religious priests.


Has Cecileo been dropping his balls off of the Tower of Pisa again?


:-) I dropped them off the wrong side and rewrote the law of gravity.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp
  #203   Report Post  
Old March 12th 06, 12:48 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
 
Posts: n/a
Default Current through coils

All explainations of the time delay I measured and why it happens are
on my website.

http://www.w8ji.com/inductor_current_time_delay.htm

and

http://www.w8ji.com/mobile_and_loaded_antenna.htm

and associated links.

The self-resonant frequency of the inductor is shown by a large rise in
time delay. Cecil is now trying to rewrite the self-resonant frequency
of the inductor I tested by using his own seriously flawed theories,
but despite the fact it appears to be clearly shown in the network
analyzer data at about 16 MHz.

http://www.w8ji.com/images/Inductor/...time-delay.jpg

Cecil's normal tactic is to change what other people say. To read a
history of the very same behavior with someone else please read:

http://www.w8ji.com/RRAA_post.htm


73 Tom

  #204   Report Post  
Old March 12th 06, 01:27 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Tom Ring
 
Posts: n/a
Default Current through coils

Richard Clark wrote:

Analog designers, fully expecting a continuum of results spanning from
classic to truly exaggerated, can cope with this. For digital
designers, this is a clear example of confounding expectations of a
binary result.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC


I've worked with a few digital designers. Many of them expect a unary
result.

tom
K0TAR

  #206   Report Post  
Old March 12th 06, 02:29 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Cecil Moore
 
Posts: n/a
Default Current through coils

Tom Donaly wrote:
Cecil, have you ever read the book _Don Quixote_, by Cervantes?
There's a character in there you remind me of.


Tom, please don't tell me that you also believe that a distributed-
network analysis using wave reflection theory is "gobbledygook".
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp
  #208   Report Post  
Old March 12th 06, 03:16 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
John Popelish
 
Posts: n/a
Default Current through coils

wrote:
(snip)
Time delay measurements of current at each terminal of a "bug-catcher
style" loading coil are now at:
http://www.w8ji.com/inductor_current_time_delay.htm

Thank you for posting the test results. But I see no information that
would allow me to reproduce it. What test equipment and what
measurement set-up was used to produce these results?
  #210   Report Post  
Old March 12th 06, 07:34 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Richard Clark
 
Posts: n/a
Default Current through coils

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 02:29:51 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote:

Tom Donaly wrote:
Cecil, have you ever read the book _Don Quixote_, by Cervantes?
There's a character in there you remind me of.


Tom, please don't tell me that you also believe that a distributed-
network analysis using wave reflection theory is "gobbledygook".


Hmm, Tom, let me guess - Dulcinea. The object of Quixote's attention
who never appears, but is always dreamt about.
Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Current in Loading Coils Cecil Moore Antenna 2 March 5th 06 08:26 PM
FCC: Broadband Power Line Systems Paul Policy 0 January 10th 05 05:41 PM
FS: sma-to-bnc custom fit rubber covered antenna adapter Stephen G. Gulyas Scanner 17 December 7th 04 06:42 PM
Current in antenna loading coils controversy (*sigh*) Roy Lewallen Antenna 25 January 15th 04 09:11 PM
Current in antenna loading coils controversy Yuri Blanarovich Antenna 454 December 12th 03 03:39 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:53 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2025 RadioBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Radio"

 

Copyright © 2017