Cecil Moore wrote:
Gene Fuller wrote:

However, there is not one bit of additional physical information in
the traveling waves that is not in the standing wave.


I agree with you but W8JI and W7EL have rejected the concept that
there is any phase information in the standing wave current magnitude.
They have rejected any use of the arc-cosine function in calculating
that phase. The following graphs show the difference in the standing
wave current and the traveling wave current.

http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp/travstnd.GIF

The standing wave current phase contains zero phase information
as you have stated. As you say, all the standing wave current
phase information is contained in the magnitude but the arc-cosine
function for obtaining that phase information has been rejected by
the experts. For the traveling wave, there is phase information
contained in the phase, none in the magnitude.

Every time you make a technical assertion, you support my argument.
Seems your argument is really with the side that rejects the arc-
cosine function for obtaining phase information.

Cecil,

You still don't get it.

When I said the phase information was gone, I meant it. Any phase
information you think you find by looking at the constituent traveling
waves is merely an artifact of the math. It has no physical meaning or
reality. If there is anything interesting left in the traveling wave
analysis, then the standing wave is not the complete representation of
the electromagnetic phenomena. This is a different problem.

Yes, you can apply modulation, insert directional couplers, look at
startup transients, or perform other tricks to get "real" phase
information. However, that again becomes a different problem, not the
original simple steady-state combination of traveling waves into a
standing wave.

73,
Gene
W4SZ