Jim Kelley wrote:
But in
consideration of the latter, it should be apparent that if the magnitude
of the randomly fluctuating ion current approaches that of a small
electromagnetic current it would be impossible not to detect it.

Exactly. Whether one particle can cause a detectable noise
pulse obviously depends on the charge on the noise particle
and a number of other parameters.

But given, e.g. a coax fed dipole with the coax braid grounded,
a difference is charge is likely to occur between the elements
that is large enough to be heard.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Gene Fuller wrote:
Why should there be a simple answer?

Because conservation of energy is a very simple concept.
Energy either exists or it doesn't. If it doesn't, corona
is impossible.

I already told you that is not the path I would take if I wanted to find
a quantitative solution.

I know that already and your particular quantitative
solution explains absolutely nothing about reality so
it has to be taken on faith. Quantum physics is currently
filled with such solutions. Nobody can prove that virtual
photons exist because if virtual photons could be proved
to exist, they wouldn't be virtual anymore. That's essentially
the same argument you are using. "Forget energy reality and
place your faith in my religious mathematical model that
doesn't require any energy". Sorry, but no thanks.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

David G. Nagel wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:
The basic question is where does the energy from corona
come from? There should be a simple answer to that
simple question.

Motion of one material against another. Silk/glass, dust/metal, rubber
belt/metal combs.
They all transfer electrons from one object to anther.

Does triboelectricity *always* cause corona? Of course not!
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

gravity wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_discharge

What happens when the charge is not enough to cause corona
or arcing? Could RF noise occur before corona occurs?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
. net...

I know that already and your particular quantitative
solution explains absolutely nothing about reality so
it has to be taken on faith. Quantum physics is currently
filled with such solutions. Nobody can prove that virtual
photons exist because if virtual photons could be proved
to exist, they wouldn't be virtual anymore.

surely you mean virtual particles like electron and positron pairs. i
believe these are mainly a construct to simplify calculations.

for instance, Heisenberg had a different approach than Schroedinger.

Gravity

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
. net...
gravity wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_discharge

What happens when the charge is not enough to cause corona
or arcing? Could RF noise occur before corona occurs?

Cebik says you will get a lot of noise with high wind and dry weather. he
has a PhD (?), i don't.

Gravity

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
. net...

Quantum physics is currently
filled with such solutions.

we (engineers, physicists) use constructs to get answers. as Feynman said
"Shut up and calculate."

in some cases, we don't know the underlying mechanism for centuries. e.g.
Newtonian gravity.

Michael

Cecil Moore wrote:
Gene Fuller wrote:
Why should there be a simple answer?

Because conservation of energy is a very simple concept.
Energy either exists or it doesn't. If it doesn't, corona
is impossible.


Cecil,

OK, energy exists, and it is even conserved.

Do you feel better now?

73,
Gene
W4SZ

Gene Fuller wrote:
OK, energy exists, and it is even conserved.
Do you feel better now?

That's a good first step. Now where does the energy come
from that supports corona under fairweather conditions?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

either the clear air field/current or any wind.

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
. com...
Gene Fuller wrote:
OK, energy exists, and it is even conserved.
Do you feel better now?

That's a good first step. Now where does the energy come
from that supports corona under fairweather conditions?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp