why do dislike 5/8 wave antennas? can you point me to any references. i
realize there is a high lobe.

i have an old Low Band Dxing, and ON4UN seems to like 5/8 on 40. i
personally tried a 5/8 vertical on 10 with bad results. however, my ground
system was terrible.

i plan to try 5/8 with full 120 * 1/2 wave radials.

i remember at one multi-single, we had a 1/4 wave 10 meter at 100 feet that
was even with the beams sometimes.

i believe K3LR mentioned he was building a 10 meter 5/8 wave 4 square. was
he kidding?

Gravity

one thing i've been pondering is a vertical colinear. 1/2 wave over 1/2
wave. i have not modeled it.

is there any free modeling software?

i noticed that you stated that phased arrays with elements separated by more
than 2 waves don't work well. i was thinking of a vertical array, either
inline or broadside.

Gravity

4NEC2?

http://home.ict.nl/~arivoors/Home.htm

Cheers Bob VK2YQA

gravity wrote:


is there any free modeling software?

"Bob Bob" wrote in message
...
4NEC2?

http://home.ict.nl/~arivoors/Home.htm

thanks Bob. that looks like it may do the trick.

Gravity

gravity wrote:
one thing i've been pondering is a vertical colinear. 1/2 wave over 1/2
wave. i have not modeled it.

is there any free modeling software?

You can use the free demo copy of EZNEC by driving the
collinear with two sources and varying the phase angle
between them. Then you can design an appropriate phasing
network. I don't think the lumped inductive reactance
available in EZNEC will yield an accurate phase shift
and the free demo will not handle enough segments to
model a helical coil.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
om...
gravity wrote:
one thing i've been pondering is a vertical colinear. 1/2 wave over 1/2
wave. i have not modeled it.

is there any free modeling software?

You can use the free demo copy of EZNEC by driving the
collinear with two sources and varying the phase angle
between them. Then you can design an appropriate phasing
network. I don't think the lumped inductive reactance
available in EZNEC will yield an accurate phase shift
and the free demo will not handle enough segments to
model a helical coil.
--

thanks, that plus the program Bob mentioned may get me started in modeling.

Gravity

73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

just some random thoughts:

a ground system for 10 meter 4-square would be 240 waves worth of wire
(minus some because of shared radials). that's 8000 feet, at 5 cents a
foot, $200. you can set up a beam at 30 feet for that price.

scaling up to 40 meters, that's a lot of wire.

Gravity

gravity wrote:
just some random thoughts:

a ground system for 10 meter 4-square would be 240 waves worth of wire
(minus some because of shared radials). that's 8000 feet, at 5 cents a
foot, $200. you can set up a beam at 30 feet for that price.

Or how about a 10m rotatable EDZ? No radials required.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
. com...

Or how about a 10m rotatable EDZ? No radials required.

this is a good idea. cebik site has some articles about EDZ beams and
colinears and arrays.

i should probably go with a 4 element 10 meter Yagi, but i want to
experiment with some alternatives.

Gravity

gravity wrote:
why do dislike 5/8 wave antennas? can you point me to any references. i
realize there is a high lobe.


Anyone who understands how a 5/8th wave works, and who isn't captivated
by the popular fantasy that the length makes the gain, would know what
the problems are.

A 5/8th wave antenna gets its gain from the ground reflection. The
ground reflection is what form the "image" that produces the gain.

Unless the ground is very large and flat and highly conductive, the
5/8th wave antenna concentrates most of its energy at high
angles.....not along the ground.

Move the 5/8th wave up above the ground or use a poor ground, and
maximum low angle FS comes from shorter antennas.

If you look at:

http://www.cebik.com/gp/58-1.html

you will see a 5/8th wave on 80 meters with a large flat ground system
not only gives marginal gain over a 1/4 w, it also has a null aat the
most useful wave angles for most work.

If you elevate the 5/8th wave or take away the good ground system, the
very small advantage it has goes away.

As a matter of fact AM BC stations, despite their large ground systems,
abandoned the 5/8th wave many years ago. They found in the real world
use of 5/8th waves instead of extending coverage they reduced coverage.

73 Tom