Whether you call it Refraction or Reflection hardly matters.

What matters is that the wave, in effect, is reflected from an
ionospheric layer at at a particular height, roughly according to
optical laws. Trigonometry Rules!

Since the transmitted 'beam' has a very wide angle in the vertical
plane, the energy returns to earth over an even wider range of
distances.

The 'elevation angle' reported by antenna simulation programs is not
very meaningfull. It contains very little useful information, mainly
because the height of a reflecting layer is unknown at the time of
transmission. Neither is the number of hops known to a particular
destination.
----
Reg.

Reg Edwards wrote:
Whether you call it Refraction or Reflection hardly matters.

This I don't understand. To me, refraction versus reflection IS the
issue. In optics, Brewster's angle is used. I still don't quite
understand thte PseudoBrewster's Angle...it seems to have a different
definition (at least in the ARRL book).

What matters is that the wave, in effect, is reflected from an
ionospheric layer at at a particular height, roughly according to
optical laws. Trigonometry Rules!



Since the transmitted 'beam' has a very wide angle in the vertical
plane, the energy returns to earth over an even wider range of
distances.

The 'elevation angle' reported by antenna simulation programs is not
very meaningfull. It contains very little useful information, mainly
because the height of a reflecting layer is unknown at the time of
transmission. Neither is the number of hops known to a particular
destination.
----
Reg.



Reg,
Thanks for your answer.

I guess I was trying to get at how much ham radio is propagated into
space. Certainly SOME does.

How does this compare to that amount propagated into space by Broadcast?

My assumption has been that VHF TV, etc is easily passed through the
ionosphere (minimally refracted).

On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 18:32:46 -0400, jawod wrote:
This I don't understand. To me, refraction versus reflection IS the
issue. In optics, Brewster's angle is used. I still don't quite
understand thte PseudoBrewster's Angle...it seems to have a different
definition (at least in the ARRL book).

Hi John,

Perhaps you should offer that definition as its application seems to
be quite rare, and paired with some obscurity to the world of
sub-atomic dispersion.

I guess I was trying to get at how much ham radio is propagated into
space. Certainly SOME does.

SOME about covers it (you want that specified in dB?). I suppose by
your other references to SETI you are wondering about the chances of a
QSO in the same frequency from the other side of that ionospheric
curtain.

Given the odds, one frequency is as good as the next....

How does this compare to that amount propagated into space by Broadcast?

There you have to consider the magnitude of flux, continuously, over
the years. If the broadcasting is from Fox news (or any Murdoch
source for that matter), it will be indistinguishable from pinko
noise.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard Clark wrote:
On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 18:32:46 -0400, jawod wrote:

This I don't understand. To me, refraction versus reflection IS the
issue. In optics, Brewster's angle is used. I still don't quite
understand thte PseudoBrewster's Angle...it seems to have a different
definition (at least in the ARRL book).


Hi John,

Perhaps you should offer that definition as its application seems to
be quite rare, and paired with some obscurity to the world of
sub-atomic dispersion.

I looked in some of my dusty old Optics texts to find Brewster: has
more to do with polarization. Brewster's angle is the incident angle of
light at which the reflected beam is the most completely polarized.

My bad.

I was thinking of the critical angle above which the light is reflected
back from the media interface and below which the light is refracted
through the "2nd" medium.

PseudoBrewster's Angle (PBA) is the "angle at which the reflected wave
is 90 degrees out of phase with respect to the direct wave" (p. 3-13
ARRL Antenna Book).

I see now that Both Brewster and PBA have to do with polarization.


I guess I was trying to get at how much ham radio is propagated into
space. Certainly SOME does.


SOME about covers it (you want that specified in dB?). I suppose by
your other references to SETI you are wondering about the chances of a
QSO in the same frequency from the other side of that ionospheric
curtain.

Not really looking for a QSO. Just trying to imagine SWL from a
different vantage point, I guess.

Given the odds, one frequency is as good as the next....


How does this compare to that amount propagated into space by Broadcast?


There you have to consider the magnitude of flux, continuously, over
the years. If the broadcasting is from Fox news (or any Murdoch
source for that matter), it will be indistinguishable from pinko
noise.

Short entries in some entity's log: "No intelligent life found" and "why
am I suddenly hungry?".

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 22:42:57 -0400, jawod wrote:
PseudoBrewster's Angle (PBA) is the "angle at which the reflected wave
is 90 degrees out of phase with respect to the direct wave" (p. 3-13
ARRL Antenna Book).

Hi John,

That sounds like ****-poor definition.

I see now that Both Brewster and PBA have to do with polarization.

And certainly one has very little to do with the other - except for
polarization. I'm surprised the author of that article didn't append
his own name to the angle.

Not really looking for a QSO. Just trying to imagine SWL from a
different vantage point, I guess.

Somewhere near the 15 meter band you can get the noise field from
Jupiter. Not exactly sentient, but still an exotic contact.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
Somewhere near the 15 meter band you can get the noise field from
Jupiter. Not exactly sentient, but still an exotic contact.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

http://www.nasm.si.edu/ceps/etp/jupi.../JUP_radio.gif

Jupiter is a broadband radiator. Be glad it stays far away.