wrote in
:

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:22:53 GMT, Dave Oldridge
wrote:

wrote in
m:

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 01:10:08 GMT, Dave Oldridge
wrote:

"Woody" wrote in
news:%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08:

Well there ya have it folks.... 50wpm saves lives. So how does it
work? Turn up the speaker really loud and place it [face down] on
the person's chest, while
an op in South America tapped out universally accepted words that
would mimic an atrioventricular rhythm?

Did someone drop you on your head at birth?
wy wouldyou ask that did someone drop you on yours?

No, but when I'm confronted with TOTAL stupidity, it's a possible
explanotion for it.
where did you encounter total stpupidity? I missed it I saw someone
being sarcastic and reasonabley cleaver about it

I'm not responsible for your perceptual difficulties.



--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667

"Dave Oldridge" wrote in message
. ..

Not an exact date, though it's probably in the archives of the Canadian
Coast Guard, my employer at the time.

Bam... burnin' beepin' ball of fire trailing smoke to the white bubbly patch
in the ocean.... [next to the beepin' burnin' boat]...

Let's get with it people.... are we have a commercial radio argument or an
amateur radio argument???

If commercial then we all agree, argument is moot.

If amateur, it doesn't matter as it's just a hobby, argument is moot.

Make up your mind folks. Either this is a stupid argument or it's a stupid
point to argue.
[hint: its the one that's stupid]
rb

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:22:53 GMT, Dave Oldridge
wrote:

where did you encounter total stupidity? I missed it I saw someone



Uhhhh...... Start with the OP and read to this point or beyond....

rb

Dirk wrote:
Ham's care more about operating appliances than knowing how to save a lives.

:-(

It all depends on the person requesting help. Some people, I would
probably just let drown... Like clowns that troll antenna newsgroups
with silly crap about CW. I bet I could save a lot more lives per
minute
using CW than you could. Wanna race? If you insist.. At that price I
can't resist...
MK

Dirk wrote:

Ham's care more about operating appliances than knowing how to save a
lives.

:-(

troll-o-meter (digital version)
0*****1*****2*****3*****4*****5*****6*****7*****8* ****9*****
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

ah ****. we have a troll!

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 16:06:55 GMT, (Dirk) wrote:

Troll message clipped

I'll byte...

Someone can correct me if the order of my time-line is off...
Here goes what I can piece together.

Before radio, people used homing pigeons and wired communications.
This was the means of comms during WWI. If the wires failed or were
cut, the troops would send important messages out by carrier or homing
pigeons. As technology developed, the Radio was invented which
allowed CW only communications via Spark Gap. There was no voice so
ALL operators learned Morse Code.

Later, AM was invented and the voice could be heard across the radio.
This newer technology wasn't as reliable as CW, but became more
popular and more reliable as time progressed. Eventually, SSB was
invented. However, CW was maintained as the communication standard
for distress signals from ships, for two reasons. One: It could be
heard and understood even when someone wasn't tuned precisely on
frequency. Two: An invention made for ships created an automated
transmission of SOS and the ship's location coordinates. This could
not only be heard when tuned off-frequency, but also across a very
wide band of frequency.

Eventually, Satellite technology became a new standard. Now, instead
of having to calculate a ship's approximate position using LORAN
signals, a ship can know within 100 feet where it actually is. Also,
with that technology, comes a new generation of two-way
communications. Now, during a distress, the ship not only
automatically sends an SOS and it's coordinates within just a few
feet, but it is sent to monitoring rescue services who can find the
ship much more quickly than before. Now, regardless of the sun-spot
cycle, the time of day, the meteor activity, and band conditions, the
ship in distress can take only a fraction of a second to send an
emergency message in plain english ( or native language) and receive a
notice that their message has been received and is being acted on just
as quickly. Not only that, but ANYONE on the ship can read and
understand the message. They don't need to have a specially trained
CW operator to interpret it and write it down for them.

Sorry, I love to operate CW, but if it is that important to emergency
comms, maybe we need to convince OnStar to convert to CW to be more
effective. I don't think they will buy it.

I don't think the question should be "If you had to use CW to save
someone's life...?", but rather "If you had to save a life, what
reliable technology do you have ready and available to use?"

Depending on the member of my club, the answer could be any of the
following: CW on any ham band, SSB on any ham band, FM on any allowed
band, Packet radio, Satellite communication via FM or SSB, Thru the
ISS, Digital voice, APRS, Cell phone, CB channel 9 or 19, (yes, it can
be very handy in an emergency), OnStar and similar services, and
probably some other mode which does not come to mind at the moment.

Having worked communications in the aftermath of several disasters, I
have come to believe that there is no less reliable method of
communications than HF SSB. However, I have never seen conditions so
bad it couldn't be used quite effectively.

Several years ago I conducted an experiment three times during a day:
in the morning about sunrise, at lunch time, and in the evening about
6pm. I laid a 20 meter dipole on the ground and, without an antenna
tuner, I transmitted an emergency drill cq on 20, 40 and 80 meters in
SSB mode. In each exercise I found someone who could copy me clearly
within 2-4 states of me on 80 and 40 meters. Even during the
prime-time net period on 75, I got responses indicating adequate
conditions to communicate the emergency messages. I was informed by
one ham I drew him out of the woodwork as he has been listening but
not transmitting for the last four or five months. The rig I used, an
Atlas 180 drops power at high swr to 5-10 watts. The antenna was a 20
meter dipole with no balun attached directly to 75 feet of whatever
coax the cable company uses to bring CATV into the home with.

20 meters only worked during the morning and at lunch time.

People are listening and the word "emergency" will get attention!
Even appliance operators can answer that call. Could they answer you
if you sent a distress in CW?



--
73 for now
Buck
N4PGW

Buck wrote:
People are listening and the word "emergency" will get attention!
Even appliance operators can answer that call. Could they answer you
if you sent a distress in CW?

In 1995 the ARRL commissioned a survey of ham radio operators licensed
in the U.S. by having passed a morse code test. (5wpm on up). 64% of the
hams responded that they NEVER used morse code. The ARRL published the
results as 36% responded that they used morse code at least occasionaly,
but the truth remains that over 10 years ago, you had a one in three
chance of the person hearing you being able to copy your message.

That's why there was an international agreed to distress call, although
at the time, radio operators were NOT obligated to listen or act upon it.
"CQD" was not a distress call per se, it was Marconi company code for
"assistance" as in "CQD CQD CQD" meaning send assistance and "CQD?" meaning
"do you need assistance".

Telefunken operators were not privy to Marconi company internal codes,
and were forbidden by company policy (and Marconi's) to answer them.
Of course nothing is secret for long and it is quite likely that most
Telefunken operators heard the CQD call from the Titanic, understood it
and listened, although none of them were going to do anything about it.

When the Titanic operator sent the new distress call (which I can't write
due to text limitations) of ...---... as one continuous string (not the letter
S followed by the letter O followed by the letter S), anyone listening
knew what they were sending. The confusion to the reader of this is because
it is written as SOS with a line on top of all three, so if I could do it,
---
it would look like: SOS but here it looks like I am underlining with.

However the Telefunken radio operator on the Californian may or may
not of heard it, but he was forbidden by company policy to reply or
tell anyone about it.

The Cape Race story and his having gone to sleep was a cover-up.

For sake of brevity, I'm not going to repeat the entire story and references
here, but you can find them in my blog entry I pointed to in a previous
post.

So while sending SOS or any other morse code signal would be a good idea
if you have a CW only radio, calling "MAYDAY" in voice would be much more
likely to be answered.

It also depends upon where you are. Here in Israel, calling anything on
CB channel 9 will probably not be heard, calling MAYDAY on 2 meters, will
get you a "roger beep" from the repeater and nothing else. You'd better
have a cell phone and know how to call for help. 911 (U.S.) and 999 (U.K,)
are not used here, 112 should work on GSM phones, but the real numbers
are 101, 102 and 103.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

" That's why there was an international agreed to distress call, although
at the time, radio operators were NOT obligated to listen or act upon it.
"CQD" was not a distress call per se, it was Marconi company code for
"assistance" as in "CQD CQD CQD" meaning send assistance and "CQD?"
meaning
"do you need assistance".

Telefunken operators were not privy to Marconi company internal codes,
and were forbidden by company policy (and Marconi's) to answer them.
Of course nothing is secret for long and it is quite likely that most
Telefunken operators heard the CQD call from the Titanic, understood it
and listened, although none of them were going to do anything about it.

When the Titanic operator sent the new distress call (which I can't write
due to text limitations) of ...---... as one continuous string (not the
letter
S followed by the letter O followed by the letter S), anyone listening
knew what they were sending. The confusion to the reader of this is
because
it is written as SOS with a line on top of all three, so if I could do it,

If you look at the radio logs you will find that Titanic only used SOS once
at 12:45am, and that was to MKC - her sister ship, the Olympic. The callsign
MKC indicating that she was also a 'Marconi' ship. The rest of the time CQD
was used.

Also to explode your theory even more at 12:15am Frankfurt DFT replied to
Titanic's CQD;
12:26 DKF (Prinz Friedrich Wilhelm) called the Titanic;
1am DDC (Cincinatti) replied to Titanic's CQD.
etc.etc

None of these were Marconi ships!!

and finally the Californian (MWL) was also a Marconi ship!!! So no
Telefunken operator to ignore any CQD's.

Regards
Jeff

That's why there was an international agreed to distress call, although
at the time, radio operators were NOT obligated to listen or act upon it.


I forgot to add that that is also not correct.

For British Ships at least, and I expect most other countries had similar
legislation, the Merchant Shipping Act, did and still does *require* a
vessel to render assistance to another vessel in distress; regardless of how
you find out about it.

You are confusing it with the fact there was no requirement to keep a
listening watch for distress traffic.

Regards
Jeff

Jeff wrote:

and finally the Californian (MWL) was also a Marconi ship!!! So no
Telefunken operator to ignore any CQD's.

Do you have any documentation of that? I carefully searched and only found
references to the Californian being a Telefunken ship. I have NOT found
any contemporary listings of ships, which company operated their radio rooms,
their callsigns, etc.

I would welcome them.

Thanks,

Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/