"Richard Knoppow" wrote in message
ink.net...

[snip]

I am aware of he problem with the Sangamo "Black Beauty"
caps. they were all replaced with disc ceramics in my JX-17
but only in the RF deck of the JX-21, or perhaps its a
JX-26. I've replace a number of them that were obviously bad
but there nearly 60 in the receiver and not all are bad.
BTW, these ubicutous caps were originaly marketed by Sangamo
as deluxe quality replacements for wax dipped paper caps.
They are paper impregnated with Mylar in molded resin cases.
I suspect the problem is that the casing is not stable and,
as it drys out, disturbs the connection of the capacitor to
the leads and also lets moisture in causing very high
leakage.

[snip]

If your capacitors are anything like the oil-filled Sprague Black Beauties,
I'd replace all of them on sight. It might just be my bad luck, but the
oil-filled Black Beauties seem to short even harder than the wax paper caps.
However, if the later paper-mylar Black Beauties are like the early series
of paper-mylar Orange Drops, they should hold up well.

I think the all the oil-filled Black Beauties had one of the wires soldered
into a ferrule and the paper-mylar Black Beauties had both of the leads come
out in the standard way.

The paper-mylar Black Beauties seem much less common than the older oil
filled Black Beauties. As far as I know, paper-mylar was around only in the
late 50s to the late 60s.

Frank Dresser

I'll second what Frank suggests about replacing ALL of the black
beauty caps. I'm doing that now on the SP-600 I'm restoring.
While none were a dead short, most showed some leakage,
about 100K ohms. In many circuits, that won't cause a problem
but in some its a big deal. About 1/3 had cracked cases.

Steve

Steve wrote:
I'll second what Frank suggests about replacing ALL of the black
beauty caps. I'm doing that now on the SP-600 I'm restoring.
While none were a dead short, most showed some leakage,
about 100K ohms. In many circuits, that won't cause a problem
but in some its a big deal. About 1/3 had cracked cases.

Steve

Two things make the Sprague Black Beauty caps a problem,
and both relate to their losing oil.

The cap is molded out of a black plastic, with a small
brass filler tube on the banded end. The capacitors were
filled with mineral oil through this tube, and the lead was
placed in the hole, and crimped. They then sealed the capacitor
by adding a little bit of solder.

So far, so good. Well, when the capacitors are installed, very
often the banded lead is close to the lug that is being soldered,
and it will carry the heat to the solder seal, and to the oil in
the cap. The slight pressure increase in the cap will softly
blow the solder out of the seal joint, and the oil will begin to
seep out of the capacitor. Note: the oil is the dielectric, not the
paper.

Also, most all plastics will shrink over time, and the plastic the
Black Beauties are made from is no exception. When it shrinks, the
leads, and the filler tube do not, and you get a small crack, and a
leak.

If the oil is allowed to seep out, and the moisture is allowed to
seep in, the capacitor will be compromised and become leaky. Also,
without the oil, the WV of the capacitor is lowered, because the oil
is the dielectric. Capacitors that are used near their WV will often
arc over, and become shorted.... with catastrophic results for the
rest of the circuit.

-Chuck

"Chuck Harris" wrote in
message ...
Steve wrote:
I'll second what Frank suggests about replacing ALL of
the black
beauty caps. I'm doing that now on the SP-600 I'm
restoring.
While none were a dead short, most showed some leakage,
about 100K ohms. In many circuits, that won't cause a
problem
but in some its a big deal. About 1/3 had cracked cases.

Steve

Two things make the Sprague Black Beauty caps a problem,
and both relate to their losing oil.

The cap is molded out of a black plastic, with a small
brass filler tube on the banded end. The capacitors were
filled with mineral oil through this tube, and the lead
was
placed in the hole, and crimped. They then sealed the
capacitor
by adding a little bit of solder.

So far, so good. Well, when the capacitors are installed,
very
often the banded lead is close to the lug that is being
soldered,
and it will carry the heat to the solder seal, and to the
oil in
the cap. The slight pressure increase in the cap will
softly
blow the solder out of the seal joint, and the oil will
begin to
seep out of the capacitor. Note: the oil is the
dielectric, not the
paper.

Also, most all plastics will shrink over time, and the
plastic the
Black Beauties are made from is no exception. When it
shrinks, the
leads, and the filler tube do not, and you get a small
crack, and a
leak.

If the oil is allowed to seep out, and the moisture is
allowed to
seep in, the capacitor will be compromised and become
leaky. Also,
without the oil, the WV of the capacitor is lowered,
because the oil
is the dielectric. Capacitors that are used near their WV
will often
arc over, and become shorted.... with catastrophic results
for the
rest of the circuit.

-Chuck

The BB's I found in the SP-600 are all of the dry Mylar
type. I have seen BB's with oil all over them in other
equipment. These were sold originally as highly stable, wide
temperature range, replacements for the conventional paper
type. Obviously something went wrong. The BB's I disected
had glazed looking paper and attachment ferrules at the
ends. They were not rolled up into a round tube but rather a
quite flattened one. I don't know if this is how they were
made or if its a result of the case shrinkage. In any case I
agree with those who recommend replacing them at sight with
disc ceramics.
BTW, Sangamo also sold Mylar-paper caps in Epoxy dipped
form. I wonder if these were any more reliable than the
molded ones.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

Steve wrote:
I'll second what Frank suggests about replacing ALL of the black
beauty caps. I'm doing that now on the SP-600 I'm restoring.
While none were a dead short, most showed some leakage,
about 100K ohms. In many circuits, that won't cause a problem
but in some its a big deal. About 1/3 had cracked cases.

Steve

Ditto on the Black Beauties, especially the ones with the little brass
tube, they seem to leak like crazy. More on the average than wax
capacitors many decades older.

Also bad news are those pea-green molded caps with the color bands.
Many Trans-Oceanics have around two dozen of those, all leaky.

I havent seen any major problem with postage-stamp or dipped
silver-micas, maybe it was just one manufacturer's kind that is getting
flaky? There is the problem of the silver migrating on silver-micas
with considerable DC voltage across them.

Ancient_Hacker wrote:

Also bad news are those pea-green molded caps with the color bands.
Many Trans-Oceanics have around two dozen of those, all leaky.

I havent seen any major problem with postage-stamp or dipped

There is one variety of capacitor that looks like the silver mica
"postage stamp" type of capacitor with all of the dots, but isn't
a mica at all. It is just a paper capacitor. They are usually
dark brown in color, and fail at about the same rate as normal wax/paper
capacitors.

-Chuck

Don't let the "mica" caps fool ya. I chased an AGC problem for two days
before I found a bad "mica" buried in an IF can. That was the straw that
broke the camels back. I then replaced ALL micas along with every bumble
bee, which, by the way, were all cracked.

--
Regards,
Gary...WZ1M
"Chuck Harris" wrote in message
...
Ancient_Hacker wrote:

Also bad news are those pea-green molded caps with the color bands.
Many Trans-Oceanics have around two dozen of those, all leaky.

I havent seen any major problem with postage-stamp or dipped

There is one variety of capacitor that looks like the silver mica
"postage stamp" type of capacitor with all of the dots, but isn't
a mica at all. It is just a paper capacitor. They are usually
dark brown in color, and fail at about the same rate as normal wax/paper
capacitors.

-Chuck

gkb wrote:
Don't let the "mica" caps fool ya.

Well, your milage may vary. I've clipped out at least a thousand old
wax caps, two hundred plus plastic tubulars, and lesse, three discrete
mica caps, and around eight of those wafer mica caps built into IF can
bases.

Mica's can go bad, they just don't seem to do so very often IMHE.

"Ancient_Hacker" wrote in message
ups.com...

gkb wrote:
Don't let the "mica" caps fool ya.

Well, your milage may vary. I've clipped out at least a
thousand old
wax caps, two hundred plus plastic tubulars, and lesse,
three discrete
mica caps, and around eight of those wafer mica caps built
into IF can
bases.

Mica's can go bad, they just don't seem to do so very
often IMHE.


Well, I've replaced 4 in my JX-17. That does seem unusual
but I think they suffer from the same problem other molded
type do, namely shrinkage of the case. These do not get
leaky like the BB's but become very unstable.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

Black Beauties,
I'd replace all of them on sight.

Kill 'em all. They are junk by now, just like earlier wax/paper caps, for
any serious application.

It takes less time to simply replace one than it does to pull it out, test
it, and either re-install it or replace it.

You won't regret it, and you have nothing to lose. Unless you're one of
those vintage electric guitar nitwits who wants to find an original
"bumblebee" cap or two to provide that tasty "period" sound (i.e.,
distortion resulting from badly leaking capacitors, which certainly wasn't
what the guitar sounded like when new).

Regards,

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html