Norm VE3CZI wrote:
I recently acquired a nice 1950 shortwave receiver but has been exposed to a
tobacco smoker during it's existance.
Anyone have good method of removing the film without damaging decals on
front panel?

Tnx...Norm VE3CZI


Hi Norm

I suspect the "decals" are more likely to be screen printed with paint
rather than hobbyist water transfers unless they are on the back of a
glass dial. If so, you can probably use the standard method of surface
cleaning electical equipment, methylated spirits. You might like to
check a small spot of paint first.

Simon

"Simon" wrote in message
...
Norm VE3CZI wrote:
I recently acquired a nice 1950 shortwave receiver but
has been exposed to a tobacco smoker during it's
existance.
Anyone have good method of removing the film without
damaging decals on front panel?

Tnx...Norm VE3CZI


Hi Norm

I suspect the "decals" are more likely to be screen
printed with paint rather than hobbyist water transfers
unless they are on the back of a glass dial. If so, you
can probably use the standard method of surface cleaning
electical equipment, methylated spirits. You might like to
check a small spot of paint first.

Simon

I think it would be safer to try a solution of
dishwashing detergent in warm water first. This is
surprizingly effective and safe for most materials. Next up
would be a household cleaner like Formula 409. Any solvent
should be tested using a cotton swab on a spot that isn't
too visible. Rubbing alcohol may also work and is safe for
most paints and materials (but not cellulose nitrate or
acetate both often used for old dials and dial windows).


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

Norm VE3CZI wrote:
I recently acquired a nice 1950 shortwave receiver but has been exposed to a
tobacco smoker during it's existance.
Anyone have good method of removing the film without damaging decals on
front panel?

Depends what the decals are.

Ammonia will remove a lot of tobacco smoke, and it's very easy on most panel
surfaces.

Formula 409 is a lot more effective. It will be fine on silkscreened paint
although it can take some lettering off so try it on a small corner first.
I have used it to turn broadcast equipment from bright orange to white. It
is very powerful stuff and you should be careful with it. It will etch
bakelite, by the way.

Another solution is to take up smoking, especially cigars. Then soon all
your equipment will match.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Norm VE3CZI wrote:
I recently acquired a nice 1950 shortwave receiver but has been exposed to a
tobacco smoker during it's existance.
Anyone have good method of removing the film without damaging decals on
front panel?

Depends what the decals are.

Ammonia will remove a lot of tobacco smoke, and it's very easy on most panel
surfaces.

Formula 409 is a lot more effective. It will be fine on silkscreened paint
although it can take some lettering off so try it on a small corner first.
I have used it to turn broadcast equipment from bright orange to white. It
is very powerful stuff and you should be careful with it. It will etch
bakelite, by the way.

Another solution is to take up smoking, especially cigars. Then soon all
your equipment will match.
--scott


Does anyone know what Formula 409 consists of as it is not in my
supermarket or chemistry book? Is it just a local product in one country
or maybe it is just acetone, alcohol or methylated spirits under a fancy
name?

Thanks for any help.

Simon

Simon wrote:

Does anyone know what Formula 409 consists of as it is not in my
supermarket or chemistry book? Is it just a local product in one country
or maybe it is just acetone, alcohol or methylated spirits under a fancy
name?


From the MSDS for 409.

-Chuck

================================================== =========================
Ingredients/Identity Information
================================================== =========================
Proprietary: NO
Ingredient: 2-BUTOXYETHANOL (ETHYLENEGLYCOL MONOBUTYL ETHER), BUTYL
CELLOSOLVE, BUTYL GLYCOL, GLYCOL ETHER EB
Ingredient Sequence Number: 01
Percent: 0.5-5
NIOSH (RTECS) Number: KJ8575000
CAS Number: 111-76-2
OSHA PEL: 50 PPM (SKIN)
ACGIH TLV: 25 PPM (SKIN)
Other Recommended Limit: 25 PPM (SKIN)
-------------------------------------
Proprietary: NO
Ingredient: ETHYLENE OXIDE (SUSPECTED 2A HUMAN CARCINOGEN BY IARC;
CONFIRMED ANIMAL CARINOGEN BY IARC & NTP)
Ingredient Sequence Number: 02
Percent: TRACE
NIOSH (RTECS) Number: KX2450000
CAS Number: 75-21-8
ACGIH TLV: 1.8 MG/CUM (A2)
-------------------------------------
Proprietary: NO
Ingredient: GLYCOL ETHERS, DIETHYLENE GLYCOL, 2,2-OXYBISETHANOL
Ingredient Sequence Number: 03
Percent: 10
NIOSH (RTECS) Number: ID5950000
CAS Number: 111-46-6
-------------------------------------
Proprietary: NO
Ingredient: MAGNESIUM SODIUM ETHYLENEDIAMINETETRAACETATE *92-2*
Ingredient Sequence Number: 04
Percent: 1
NIOSH (RTECS) Number: 1007734MS
CAS Number: 14402-88-1
-------------------------------------
Proprietary: NO
Ingredient: SODIUM HYDROXIDE, CAUSTIC SODA, LYE
Ingredient Sequence Number: 05
Percent: 0.5
NIOSH (RTECS) Number: WB4900000
CAS Number: 1310-73-2
OSHA PEL: 2 MG/CUM
ACGIH TLV: 2 MG/CUM CEILING
Other Recommended Limit: 2MG/M3 CEILING NIOSH

One thing, from the ingredient list I posted earlier is Formula 409
contains Butyl Cellosolve. This is terrible stuff on plastics. It is
what turns clear plastic molded meter windows foggy. I would not use
Formula 409, or any other cleaner that contains Butyl Cellosolve on
plastics of any sort. The stuff soaks into the plastic and makes it
sticky and soft... sort of a plasticizer.

-Chuck Harris

Chuck Harris wrote:
One thing, from the ingredient list I posted earlier is Formula 409
contains Butyl Cellosolve. This is terrible stuff on plastics. It is
what turns clear plastic molded meter windows foggy. I would not use
Formula 409, or any other cleaner that contains Butyl Cellosolve on
plastics of any sort. The stuff soaks into the plastic and makes it
sticky and soft... sort of a plasticizer.

It's fine on most plastics. It's a disaster on others, most notably
phenolics. It will etch the hell out of bakelite and leave you an ugly
dull surface. Test before using.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Chuck Harris wrote:
One thing, from the ingredient list I posted earlier is Formula 409
contains Butyl Cellosolve. This is terrible stuff on plastics. It is
what turns clear plastic molded meter windows foggy. I would not use
Formula 409, or any other cleaner that contains Butyl Cellosolve on
plastics of any sort. The stuff soaks into the plastic and makes it
sticky and soft... sort of a plasticizer.

It's fine on most plastics. It's a disaster on others, most notably
phenolics. It will etch the hell out of bakelite and leave you an ugly
dull surface. Test before using.
--scott

Ford cars all come with warnings not to use cleaners containing
butyl cellosolve on, or around the instrument panel. They tell of the
damage they will cause to the speedometer window... And I have ignored the
warning with 409, and other glass cleaners, and fogged the dash windows.

I used to use 409 as a general cleaning agent on surplus test equipment,
until I started to notice that I was ending up with power cords that
became sticky, plastic tote handles that became sticky, and wrinkle paint
that became softened and sticky. All anecdotal evidence, I know, but
much of this equipment survived 20 years before my cleaning them with
409 without these failures occurring.

Butyl cellosolve is used because it is an incredible penetrating agent.
It burrows deeply into grease and grime, and softens it so that normal
detergents can wash it away. It also does this to many plastics and
rubbers. I believe that clear plastics that are polystyrene based are
particularly affected by 409.

If you do use 409, always rinse it away with water, never just spray
and wipe, as the manufacturer recommends.

Isopropyl alcohol is a great solvent for cleaning, but it too can cause
problems with some plastics. Never leave acrylics soaking in isopropyl,
as it will cause them to form deep cracks without ever softening the
plastic.

-Chuck

Simon wrote:
Does anyone know what Formula 409 consists of as it is not in my
supermarket or chemistry book? Is it just a local product in one country
or maybe it is just acetone, alcohol or methylated spirits under a fancy
name?

It's 2-butoxyethanol, with a little soap and water and a pH buffer to keep it
alkaline. In the US, you can buy commercial degreasers with much higher
2-butoxyethanol content (Ace Hardware sells something by the gallon that is
almost half 2-butoxyethanol), but 409 is plenty strong.

It's a good solvent for anything greasy or oily.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:

It's 2-butoxyethanol, with a little soap and water and a pH buffer to keep it
alkaline. In the US, you can buy commercial degreasers with much higher
2-butoxyethanol content (Ace Hardware sells something by the gallon that is
almost half 2-butoxyethanol), but 409 is plenty strong.

It's a good solvent for anything greasy or oily.
--scott
Scott and others

Thanks for the info - sounds fine for greasy metalwork but not plastics,
paint or rubber.

Simon