Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

In message , gareth
writes
"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...

Ian, with your greater experience than mine, it is the concept of
single-signal reception in which I am interested.

Have you any clues about that, please?

The only clue I can offer is that 'single-signal reception' is vague - but
presumably self-explanatory, ie the filtering is very narrow, enabling you
to receive only one signal (unless you have more than one on or very close
to the same frequency). It's a term that I recall being around when I were
a lad, but I can't say I've heard it much since. I guess it's been
replaced by more scientific descriptions of how good the filtering is.

Thank you, Ian. I have a vague memory of something in BadCon from about 40
years ago which
related to setting up for single signal reception, which involved no further
adjustments to phasing or BFO once it had been set. I am fairly sure, hence
my
enquiry that it involved phasing out the audio image as well as involving
the peaking
that comes from a single series resonant crystal.

Hence my assumption that the BFO frequency must lie half way between the
peak and the notch.

I've no experience of such things. The HRO I had in my possession 20 years
ago did not posses
the crystal filter, but in an effort to speed up development of my RX
project, it seemed to me
that a single crystal filter would be an easier starting point than a ladder
filter.

You're not confusing SSB generation (and reception) by the 'phasing
method', are you? That requires something quite different from the
action of the elementary single crystal filter we're talking about.

While a single crystal filter can provide a fair amount of selectivity
(combined, if you choose to use it, useful suck-blow or blow-suck
frequency response), it is not really suitable for 'serious' SSB
filtering. Its frequency selectivity characteristics don't really use
clever phasing out of the audio image. The passband peak is really too
sharp for either the generation or reception of good quality SSB, and
you usually need a 'proper' flat-topped filter, a 'proper' SSB phasing
TX or RX (which also does exist in a direct-conversion form) - or if
you're really clever, a 'third method' phasing TX (or, I suppose, RX).
That said, I'm sure that 'KISS' transmitters and receivers have been
made using a single-crystal filter - albeit having a somewhat limited
performance.
--
Ian

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...

You're not confusing SSB generation (and reception) by the 'phasing
method', are you?

Neither that nor Weaver's Third Method.


While a single crystal filter can provide a fair amount of selectivity
(combined, if you choose to use it, useful suck-blow or blow-suck
frequency response), it is not really suitable for 'serious' SSB
filtering. Its frequency selectivity characteristics don't really use
clever phasing out of the audio image. The passband peak is really too
sharp for either the generation or reception of good quality SSB, and you
usually need a 'proper' flat-topped filter, a 'proper' SSB phasing TX or
RX (which also does exist in a direct-conversion form) - or if you're
really clever, a 'third method' phasing TX (or, I suppose, RX).

Actually easier to set up for the Third Method, because all the phasing is
done
at a single audio frequency. But that's not what this thread is about.


That said, I'm sure that 'KISS' transmitters and receivers have been made
using a single-crystal filter - albeit having a somewhat limited
performance.

It's not for SSB. CW forever!

However, ISTR G3VA (RIP) in his TT column discussing Stenode
correction when trying to resolve voice through a single-Xtal filter.

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

On Sun, 25 Aug 2013, Scott Dorsey wrote:


"Single signal reception" to me would imply a narrow-sloped bandpass
filter but it sounds more like marketing than engineering.

"Single signal reception" is specific, about no audio image. Before Lamb
came up with the filter (and some argue it was someone else before him),
receivers were generally 'broad", there was no way to get rid of the
image, though I suppose at the time there were some lab receivers that
used really low IFs for some high selectivity (or that famous experiment
that used sharp low frequency antennas to prove the existence of a carrier
and two sidebands on an AM signal).

So the term applies to CW, siince at the time, the late thirties, SSB
wasn't really used by hams, and AM has no image in this context.

But in terms of SSB, it still means no audio image. So if you use a
direct conversion receiver, you get an audio image, and there's nothing at
audio that you can do to get rid of the image (same with CW and a DC
receiver, the audio filter will get rid of adjacent signals, but not the
audio image). You can't knock out the interfering signal that's on the
other side of zero-beat.

If you use a DC receiver that has phasing networks to get
rid of the audio image, you have "single signal reception" since you've
wiped out the image.

Same with a crystal filter, it allows only one sideband to pass so
anything on the other side of zero-beat is knocked down in strength
significantly.

MIchael VE2BVW

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

On Sun, 25 Aug 2013, Scott Dorsey wrote:

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?philo=A0?= wrote:
Well, even though the guy is a troll, I always try to make to best of
everything. Though I had known about the "homebrew" group I had never
before known of the existence of the "boatanchor" group.

Welcome! It is a good place! Traffic is much lower than it used to be,
but there are still plenty of interesting people hanging out here.

I can now relive the good old days.

Through the years I have gotten rid of most of my "boatanchors"
but happily still have my HQ-140-X

I had one of those when I was a novice and eventually did a horse-trade
for an R-388 that made me a lot happier, but you can't really complain
about any of those old rigs. You turn on the receiver and there are
people talking and after a few decades that's still pretty cool.

Did the R-388 have a phasing type crystal filter, or did Collins put a
mechanical filter in it? I seem to recall the former.

Michael VE2BVW

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

"Michael Black" wrote in message
news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1308251248110.28924@darkstar. example.org...

Same with a crystal filter, it allows only one sideband to pass so
anything on the other side of zero-beat is knocked down in strength
significantly.

Except in the case of CW through a single-Xtal filter, when the carrier
and BOTH sidebands***** pass through, but an interfering signal
on the other sie of the BFO is phased out.


***** very close in, eg 12WPM is 10baud.

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

gareth wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message

Perhaps you, as indeed do others seem, are trying to interpret a technique
from
the 1930s and 1940s in terms of the multi-pole Xtal filters that are the
norm today?

Well, yes. That is the point of this thread, isn't it?

No, it isn't.

I have a junk box going back 50 years from which I intend to make the sort
of RX that I dreamed of as a teenager in the 1960s, on the basis that if I
do
not make use of all those museum bits and pieces, the executor of my will
will be likely to bin the lot.

I am inspired by the ham-bands only Eddystone EA12 and am making slow
progress
in a DIY effort to manufacture the gears for the dial drive and am now
considering
the manufacture of a Catacomb along the lines of the National NC100X.

One technique from those pre-mechanical, and multi-pole or monolithic
Xtal, filters was to use a _SINGLE_ crystal early on in the IF chain, and it
is that
single crystal together with its phasing control that interests me at the
moment.

Yes, and you would like to understand how that device works in terms of
modern nyquist filter theory, correct?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

Michael Black wrote:
On Sun, 25 Aug 2013, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Did the R-388 have a phasing type crystal filter, or did Collins put a
mechanical filter in it? I seem to recall the former.

Yes, it had the crystal filter, which was useful in a CW pileup, but not
really all that great for AM or SSB.

I traded _that_ up for an R-390A which has mechanical filters with very
sharp skirts combined with a narrowband audio filter for picking one CW
signal out. Audio quality for phone is not very good, but you can hear
stuff way down in the grass.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

On Sun, 25 Aug 2013, gareth wrote:

"Michael Black" wrote in message
news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1308251248110.28924@darkstar. example.org...

Same with a crystal filter, it allows only one sideband to pass so
anything on the other side of zero-beat is knocked down in strength
significantly.

Except in the case of CW through a single-Xtal filter, when the carrier
and BOTH sidebands***** pass through, but an interfering signal
on the other sie of the BFO is phased out.

No, you put the BFO on the slope of the filter, no different from some
fancier filter, and so the image is attenuated because it's outside of the
filter bandwidth.

Michael VE2BVW

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
gareth wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
Perhaps you, as indeed do others seem, are trying to interpret a
technique
from
the 1930s and 1940s in terms of the multi-pole Xtal filters that are the
norm today?
Well, yes. That is the point of this thread, isn't it?
No, it isn't.
I have a junk box going back 50 years from which I intend to make the sort
of RX that I dreamed of as a teenager in the 1960s, on the basis that if I
do
not make use of all those museum bits and pieces, the executor of my will
will be likely to bin the lot.
I am inspired by the ham-bands only Eddystone EA12 and am making slow
progress
in a DIY effort to manufacture the gears for the dial drive and am now
considering
the manufacture of a Catacomb along the lines of the National NC100X.
One technique from those pre-mechanical, and multi-pole or monolithic
Xtal, filters was to use a _SINGLE_ crystal early on in the IF chain, and
it
is that
single crystal together with its phasing control that interests me at the
moment.
Yes, and you would like to understand how that device works in terms of
modern nyquist filter theory, correct?

Harry Nyquist is far from modern, I have somewhere an essay of his from
1924,
something along the lines of, "Certain topics in telegraph theory"


What I was after was the standard way of setting up the phasing together
with
the BFO for eliminating an interfering carrier that was equally spaced from
the BFO
frequency on the other side.

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

"Michael Black" wrote in message
news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1308251307180.28924@darkstar. example.org...
On Sun, 25 Aug 2013, gareth wrote:

"Michael Black" wrote in message
news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1308251248110.28924@darkstar. example.org...

Same with a crystal filter, it allows only one sideband to pass so
anything on the other side of zero-beat is knocked down in strength
significantly.

Except in the case of CW through a single-Xtal filter, when the carrier
and BOTH sidebands***** pass through, but an interfering signal
on the other sie of the BFO is phased out.

No, you put the BFO on the slope of the filter, no different from some
fancier filter, and so the image is attenuated because it's outside of the
filter bandwidth.


That's not the case with a single-Xtal filter because of the notch caused by
the parallel resonant frequency.

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

If the above message is full of spelling mistakes or the snipping is duff,
it's probably because it was sent from my iPhone, likely whilst walking.
Apologies!

Full of excuses...just like brian avoiding CW for decades.......always some
excuse........

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

"Stephen Thomas Cole" wrote in message
...
That's it Gareth, when in over your head, keep swinging wildly! Ah, that
indefatigable Welsh spirit!

One day he'll work out that when you're in a hole the worst thing you can do
is keep digging. Don't tell him, though, it would spoil all the fun.
--
;-)
..
73 de Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI - mine's a pint.
..
http://turner-smith.co.uk

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

In message , gareth
writes
"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...

You're not confusing SSB generation (and reception) by the 'phasing
method', are you?

Neither that nor Weaver's Third Method.


While a single crystal filter can provide a fair amount of selectivity
(combined, if you choose to use it, useful suck-blow or blow-suck
frequency response), it is not really suitable for 'serious' SSB
filtering. Its frequency selectivity characteristics don't really use
clever phasing out of the audio image. The passband peak is really too
sharp for either the generation or reception of good quality SSB, and you
usually need a 'proper' flat-topped filter, a 'proper' SSB phasing TX or
RX (which also does exist in a direct-conversion form) - or if you're
really clever, a 'third method' phasing TX (or, I suppose, RX).

Actually easier to set up for the Third Method, because all the phasing is
done
at a single audio frequency. But that's not what this thread is about.


That said, I'm sure that 'KISS' transmitters and receivers have been made
using a single-crystal filter - albeit having a somewhat limited
performance.

It's not for SSB. CW forever!

However, ISTR G3VA (RIP) in his TT column discussing Stenode
correction when trying to resolve voice through a single-Xtal filter.

That is indeed true, where 'Stenode' is a fancy name for lots of HF
boost to compensate for what otherwise would be very bassy audio.
--
Ian

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

In article ,
"gareth" wrote:

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
gareth wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
Perhaps you, as indeed do others seem, are trying to interpret a
technique
from
the 1930s and 1940s in terms of the multi-pole Xtal filters that are the
norm today?
Well, yes. That is the point of this thread, isn't it?
No, it isn't.
I have a junk box going back 50 years from which I intend to make the sort
of RX that I dreamed of as a teenager in the 1960s, on the basis that if I
do
not make use of all those museum bits and pieces, the executor of my will
will be likely to bin the lot.
I am inspired by the ham-bands only Eddystone EA12 and am making slow
progress
in a DIY effort to manufacture the gears for the dial drive and am now
considering
the manufacture of a Catacomb along the lines of the National NC100X.
One technique from those pre-mechanical, and multi-pole or monolithic
Xtal, filters was to use a _SINGLE_ crystal early on in the IF chain, and
it
is that
single crystal together with its phasing control that interests me at the
moment.
Yes, and you would like to understand how that device works in terms of
modern nyquist filter theory, correct?

Harry Nyquist is far from modern, I have somewhere an essay of his from
1924,
something along the lines of, "Certain topics in telegraph theory"


What I was after was the standard way of setting up the phasing together
with
the BFO for eliminating an interfering carrier that was equally spaced from
the BFO
frequency on the other side.

Once you have tuned the radio (VFO) to get the wanted signal at the
centre of the crystal passband, you can set the BFO to taste and
altering the phasing of the crystal will not alter the IF frequency of
the wanted signal so won't alter the beat note. If the phasing shifts
the crystal pass band significantly (which it probably won't) you might
need to retune the radio (VFO) slightly and then the beat note would
alter so you might have to adjust the BFO to taste again. But the BFO
won't alter where the signal is in the passband, and the crystal phasing
won't alter the beat note when it is adjusted. Only changing the VFO
could do that.

--

Percy Picacity

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

"Percy Picacity" wrote in message
...
Once you have tuned the radio (VFO) to get the wanted signal at the
centre of the crystal passband,

There is no passband, it is a single sharp peak.



you can set the BFO to taste and
altering the phasing of the crystal will not alter the IF frequency of
the wanted signal so won't alter the beat note.
If the phasing shifts
the crystal pass band significantly (which it probably won't) you might
need to retune the radio (VFO) slightly and then the beat note would
alter so you might have to adjust the BFO to taste again. But the BFO
won't alter where the signal is in the passband, and the crystal phasing
won't alter the beat note when it is adjusted. Only changing the VFO
could do that.

Sorry OM, but you're way off topic.

A single-Xtal series resonant XTal has a sharp peak, and then a deep null at
the parallel resonant frequency, and the phasing control adjusts the
position of the null.

My assumption, which is where I came in, is that the BFO would be centred
between
the two frequencies so that an interfering signal at the audio image
frequency would
be nullified.

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

"gareth" wrote in message
...

A single-Xtal series resonant XTal has a sharp peak, and then a deep null
at
the parallel resonant frequency, and the phasing control adjusts the
position of the null.

My assumption, which is where I came in, is that the BFO would be centred
between
the two frequencies so that an interfering signal at the audio image
frequency would
be nullified.



You might choose to do this - particularly if, understandably, you find
interference at the same beat frequency makes copy of the wanted signal more
difficult.

This approach, though, has no obvious merit over *normal procedure and has
the distinct disadvantage of forcing you to listen to audio at one half the
difference between the wanted and unwanted signals.

*peak the wanted signal, adjust the BFO to give the optimum audio frequency
while adjusting phasing for maximum readability.

PA

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

In article ,
"gareth" wrote:

"Percy Picacity" wrote in message
...
Once you have tuned the radio (VFO) to get the wanted signal at the
centre of the crystal passband,

There is no passband, it is a single sharp peak.

Sorry that is a passband, unless it is an ideal infinitely narrow
filter, in which case you would not be able to hear the morse characters!



you can set the BFO to taste and
altering the phasing of the crystal will not alter the IF frequency of
the wanted signal so won't alter the beat note.
If the phasing shifts
the crystal pass band significantly (which it probably won't) you might
need to retune the radio (VFO) slightly and then the beat note would
alter so you might have to adjust the BFO to taste again. But the BFO
won't alter where the signal is in the passband, and the crystal phasing
won't alter the beat note when it is adjusted. Only changing the VFO
could do that.

Sorry OM, but you're way off topic.

A single-Xtal series resonant XTal has a sharp peak, and then a deep null at
the parallel resonant frequency, and the phasing control adjusts the
position of the null.

My assumption, which is where I came in, is that the BFO would be centred
between
the two frequencies so that an interfering signal at the audio image
frequency would
be nullified.

The crystal nulls the signal that *leads to* the audio image, not the
audio image itself. The only effect of putting the BFO half way between
the wanted and unwanted signal is to give them the same beat note and
therefore make them harder to distinguish. If the BFO is elsewhere they
will have different pitches. But the position of the BFO frequency has
no effect on the the crystal nulling the unwanted signal. If you
actually wanted to null the audio image (or any other audio frequency)
you would need to use DSP.

--

Percy Picacity

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

"Peter Able" stuck@home wrote in message
o.uk...
*peak the wanted signal, adjust the BFO to give the optimum audio
frequency while adjusting phasing for maximum readability.


What do you mean by, "adjusting phasing for maximum readability", if the
signal is already
peaked at the series resonant frequency?


And where do you derive your opinion that this is normal?

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

"Percy Picacity" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"gareth" wrote:
"Percy Picacity" wrote in message
...
Once you have tuned the radio (VFO) to get the wanted signal at the
centre of the crystal passband,
There is no passband, it is a single sharp peak.
Sorry that is a passband, unless it is an ideal infinitely narrow
filter, in which case you would not be able to hear the morse characters!
you can set the BFO to taste and
altering the phasing of the crystal will not alter the IF frequency of
the wanted signal so won't alter the beat note.
If the phasing shifts
the crystal pass band significantly (which it probably won't) you might
need to retune the radio (VFO) slightly and then the beat note would
alter so you might have to adjust the BFO to taste again. But the BFO
won't alter where the signal is in the passband, and the crystal
phasing
won't alter the beat note when it is adjusted. Only changing the VFO
could do that.

Sorry OM, but you're way off topic.
A single-Xtal series resonant XTal has a sharp peak, and then a deep null
at
the parallel resonant frequency, and the phasing control adjusts the
position of the null.
My assumption, which is where I came in, is that the BFO would be centred
between
the two frequencies so that an interfering signal at the audio image
frequency would
be nullified.
The crystal nulls the signal that *leads to* the audio image, not the
audio image itself. The only effect of putting the BFO half way between
the wanted and unwanted signal is to give them the same beat note and
therefore make them harder to distinguish. If the BFO is elsewhere they
will have different pitches. But the position of the BFO frequency has
no effect on the the crystal nulling the unwanted signal. If you
actually wanted to null the audio image (or any other audio frequency)
you would need to use DSP.

You're still missing the point that in addition to the peak response, there
is
also a deep null.

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

In article ,
"gareth" wrote:
snip

You're still missing the point that in addition to the peak response, there
is
also a deep null.

No I'm not! It can be adjusted with the 'phase' control to null a signal
*at IF* near to the wanted one. Adjusting the position of the null has
no affect on beat frequency with the wanted signal, or the beat
frequency of the unwanted signal (it gives the BFO a less strong IF
interfering signal to beat with but it does not affect the frequency of
the beat note, just the loudness). Tuning the BFO has no effect on the
null. The two controls do not interact, though they both have an affect
on readability.

--

Percy Picacity

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

"Percy Picacity" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"gareth" wrote:
snip
You're still missing the point that in addition to the peak response,
there
is
also a deep null.
No I'm not! It can be adjusted with the 'phase' control to null a signal
*at IF* near to the wanted one. Adjusting the position of the null has
no affect on beat frequency with the wanted signal, or the beat
frequency of the unwanted signal (it gives the BFO a less strong IF
interfering signal to beat with but it does not affect the frequency of
the beat note, just the loudness). Tuning the BFO has no effect on the
null. The two controls do not interact, though they both have an affect
on readability.


Straw Man

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

On 8/25/2013 7:09 PM, gareth wrote:
"Percy Picacity" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"gareth" wrote:
snip
You're still missing the point that in addition to the peak response,
there
is
also a deep null.
No I'm not! It can be adjusted with the 'phase' control to null a signal
*at IF* near to the wanted one. Adjusting the position of the null has
no affect on beat frequency with the wanted signal, or the beat
frequency of the unwanted signal (it gives the BFO a less strong IF
interfering signal to beat with but it does not affect the frequency of
the beat note, just the loudness). Tuning the BFO has no effect on the
null. The two controls do not interact, though they both have an affect
on readability.


Straw Man



To call you an idiot would be an insult to idiots everywhere.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

On Sun, 25 Aug 2013, Percy Picacity wrote:

In article ,
"gareth" wrote:
snip

You're still missing the point that in addition to the peak response, there
is
also a deep null.

No I'm not! It can be adjusted with the 'phase' control to null a signal
*at IF* near to the wanted one. Adjusting the position of the null has
no affect on beat frequency with the wanted signal, or the beat
frequency of the unwanted signal (it gives the BFO a less strong IF
interfering signal to beat with but it does not affect the frequency of
the beat note, just the loudness). Tuning the BFO has no effect on the
null. The two controls do not interact, though they both have an affect
on readability.

I dug up an early article by Lamb about the filter (not the QST article
but some other publication). And there doesn't even have to be a notch.
Ajust the control a certain way and there's no notch, it's just a very
narrow filter.

The notch is just iciing on the cake, the filter was there to get a narrow
enough bandwidth so the audio image isn't there. There were some
construciton articles in the sixties in various magazines for adding cw
selectivity to SSB transceivers, which of course at the time often had
only an SSB suitable IF filter. And one scheme was to gang a few of those
phasing type filters, the ganging narrowed the skirt. SO they'd use
triodes, the crystal from the plate of one to the grid of the next, the
phasing capacitor from the cathode of one to the grid of the next, the
triode acting as a phase inverter instead of the transformer. And while
there were trimmer capacitors in each section so they could all be
aligned, no phasing control was brought to the front panel.

I said I never used the phasing control on the Sp-600, and one of these
days when I get my $20 at a garage sale TMC GPR-90 going (I don't think it
needs much work, I just need to get around to it), I doubt I'll use the
phasing control on it. The description of such filters always sounded to
me like the notch ability wasn't so useful, since it interacted with the
peaking of the actual crystal filter. It's not like having a separate
notch filter to wipe out offending interference. Circa 1936, the phasing
control probably helped a lot, all the receivers fairly simple and nobody
wanting to make things complicated in circuit or price, and of course the
bands weren't as crowded. But nowadays, it is something from the 1930s.
A great thing when you need a simple crystal filter, or to start with to
get the receiver going (and then replace with a better filter), but there
are better schemes out there already.

Michael VE2BVW

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 8/25/2013 7:09 PM, gareth wrote:
"Percy Picacity" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"gareth" wrote:
snip
You're still missing the point that in addition to the peak response,
there
is
also a deep null.
No I'm not! It can be adjusted with the 'phase' control to null a signal
*at IF* near to the wanted one. Adjusting the position of the null has
no affect on beat frequency with the wanted signal, or the beat
frequency of the unwanted signal (it gives the BFO a less strong IF
interfering signal to beat with but it does not affect the frequency of
the beat note, just the loudness). Tuning the BFO has no effect on the
null. The two controls do not interact, though they both have an affect
on readability.


Straw Man



To call you an idiot would be an insult to idiots everywhere.

Subscribe to ukra for a few weeks and you'll soon see that this is quite
lucid for Gareth. Wait till he gets going on the RSGB or the British tiered
licencing scheme...

--
If the above message is full of spelling mistakes or the snipping is duff,
it's probably because it was sent from my iPhone, likely whilst walking.
Apologies!

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

"gareth" wrote in message
...
"Peter Able" stuck@home wrote in message
o.uk...
*peak the wanted signal, adjust the BFO to give the optimum audio
frequency while adjusting phasing for maximum readability.


What do you mean by, "adjusting phasing for maximum readability", if the
signal is already
peaked at the series resonant frequency?

If you need to ask this question, I think that you would benefit from
directed experience of working with this sort of filter. Remember, we are
talking Readability, not Strength.

And where do you derive your opinion that this is normal?

From my lengthy experience as a successful professional engineer and from
holding a licence - Amateur (Sound) A and its successors - for many more
years than yourself. Also from what ability I have to assess and learn from
the opinions of others.


You asked for input from "experienced and senior" folk and yet you've been
rude and dismissive of such input. Why do you act down to Mr. Reay's
earlier characterisation of yourself? I'd like to see him proved wrong -
but that is a matter entirely in your hands, Gareth.

PA

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

On 26/08/2013 09:48, Peter Able wrote:
"gareth" wrote in message
...
"Peter Able" stuck@home wrote in message
o.uk...
*peak the wanted signal, adjust the BFO to give the optimum audio
frequency while adjusting phasing for maximum readability.


What do you mean by, "adjusting phasing for maximum readability", if the
signal is already
peaked at the series resonant frequency?

If you need to ask this question, I think that you would benefit from
directed experience of working with this sort of filter. Remember, we are
talking Readability, not Strength.

And where do you derive your opinion that this is normal?

From my lengthy experience as a successful professional engineer and from
holding a licence - Amateur (Sound) A and its successors - for many more
years than yourself. Also from what ability I have to assess and learn from
the opinions of others.


You asked for input from "experienced and senior" folk and yet you've been
rude and dismissive of such input. Why do you act down to Mr. Reay's
earlier characterisation of yourself? I'd like to see him proved wrong -
but that is a matter entirely in your hands, Gareth.

PA


Oh dear Peter, don't be surprised if your employer is added to the list
who receives an Email.

I've copies of several so far. If you need advice on how to proceed when
it happens, feel free to contact me.

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

A single crystal-plus-phasing-control is NOT a bandpass filter. It is
a SINGLE crystal that has a series-resonant peak and a parallel-resonant
notch, and it is most certainly not a symmetrical response curve.

The phasing control affects the frequency of the parallel-resonant notch.

The reason for my query is that googling threw up the instructions for
a Hallicrafters (SX42, I think) that suggested that the BFO could be
adjusted
AFTER the setting of the phasing control, when it seemed to me that such
action
would move the position of the notch AWAY from the audio image and thus
lost the single-signal facility.

But thanks for your contribution.



Gareth,

The answer is quite simple; unless you move the VFO there will be no
need to change the BFO setting. Adjusting the phasing control is akin to
an IF shift control on a modern radio with the addition of a notch to
the side of the passband which you can move with the phasing control.
Adjusting it will have no effect on the frequency of the received signal
merely the range of frequencies in the passband or the notch.


The only reason that the BFO might need adjusting is pulling of the VFO
which was quite common on early receivers due to poor supply regulation
and the like.

73
Jeff

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 10:57:47 -0400, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

ROFLMAO. I would have loved to see that!

You should know that nearly everyone in ukra has a colourful past, some
more recent than others, some abusive, some not, as you will see if you
check out the postings of the person you are replying to.

More laughing guarranteed.



--
M0WYM
Sales @ radiowymsey
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Sales-At-Radio-Wymsey/
http://sales-at-radio-wymsey.ebid.net/

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

Gareth Alun Evans G4SDW has quite the colourful past history in
uk.radio.amateur. If you fancy a good laugh, have a delve through the
Google Groups archive. It will not surprise you to learn that his
behaviour
at one point eventually resulted in a police officer standing on his head.


I blame the masons...never mind the polis man probably paid dearly for
believing what another mason probably told him ......

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

Wymsey wrote:
On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 10:57:47 -0400, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

ROFLMAO. I would have loved to see that!

You should know that nearly everyone in ukra has a colourful past, some
more recent than others, some abusive, some not, as you will see if you
check out the postings of the person you are replying to.

More laughing guarranteed.


Indeed. The pirate 2E0WYM here, for example, is masquerading as a full
licensee, having avoided training to the correct standard by fortuitously
"finding" and cashing in an allegedly 40 year old RAE pass certificate to
dodge the current, rigorous Full Licence exam.

--
If the above message is full of spelling mistakes or the snipping is duff,
it's probably because it was sent from my iPhone, likely whilst walking.
Apologies!

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

In message , Stephen Thomas Cole
writes
Wymsey wrote:
On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 10:57:47 -0400, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

ROFLMAO. I would have loved to see that!

You should know that nearly everyone in ukra has a colourful past, some
more recent than others, some abusive, some not, as you will see if you
check out the postings of the person you are replying to.

More laughing guarranteed.


Indeed. The pirate 2E0WYM here, for example, is masquerading as a full
licensee, having avoided training to the correct standard by fortuitously
"finding" and cashing in an allegedly 40 year old RAE pass certificate to
dodge the current, rigorous Full Licence exam.

Steve, have you really lost the plot? The 'old RAE' WAS a rigorous exam
(but maybe not as daunting as the Dreaded Morse Test).
--
Ian

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

Indeed. The pirate 2E0WYM here, for example, is masquerading as a full
licensee, having avoided training to the correct standard by fortuitously
"finding" and cashing in an allegedly 40 year old RAE pass certificate to
dodge the current, rigorous Full Licence exam.

!
"current, rigorous Full Licence exam" !??!!??!!!..ha ha ha ho ho


"********" he is worth a dozen of you and so is his RAE pass .........

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

In article ,
Stephen Thomas Cole wrote:

Wymsey wrote:
On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 10:57:47 -0400, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

ROFLMAO. I would have loved to see that!

You should know that nearly everyone in ukra has a colourful past, some
more recent than others, some abusive, some not, as you will see if you
check out the postings of the person you are replying to.

More laughing guarranteed.


Indeed. The pirate 2E0WYM here, for example, is masquerading as a full
licensee, having avoided training to the correct standard by fortuitously
"finding" and cashing in an allegedly 40 year old RAE pass certificate to
dodge the current, rigorous Full Licence exam.

AMI, that is almost certainly an actionable libel. Shame I doubt if you
have enough money to be worth suing.

--

Percy Picacity

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

"Stephen Thomas Cole" wrote in message
...
Subscribe to ukra for a few weeks and you'll soon see that this is quite
lucid for Gareth. Wait till he gets going on the RSGB or the British
tiered
licencing scheme...

or the Monarchy, the Armed Forces, his latest skirmish with the law or
anything else that's wrong in his little world. There's plenty of scope;
he's always the only one who's right.
--
;-)
..
73 de Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI - mine's a pint.
..
http://turner-smith.co.uk

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

Indeed. The pirate 2E0WYM here, for example, is masquerading as a full
licensee, having avoided training to the correct standard by fortuitously
"finding" and cashing in an allegedly 40 year old RAE pass certificate to
dodge the current, rigorous Full Licence exam.

Steve, have you really lost the plot? The 'old RAE' WAS a rigorous exam
(but maybe not as daunting as the Dreaded Morse Test).
Ian

yes and you had to be able to write the answer...not just walk about tapping
****e into an iphone.......like wot steve is expert at....

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

Indeed. The pirate 2E0WYM here, for example, is masquerading as a full
licensee, having avoided training to the correct standard by fortuitously
"finding" and cashing in an allegedly 40 year old RAE pass certificate to
dodge the current, rigorous Full Licence exam.

AMI, that is almost certainly an actionable libel. Shame I doubt if you
have enough money to be worth suing.



Percy Picacity

just put steve down as an arse hole ............not worth a ****

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 10:35:28 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:

Steve, have you really lost the plot? The 'old RAE' WAS a rigorous exam
(but maybe not as daunting as the Dreaded Morse Test).

He's just trying to wind me up Ian. He won't succeed but I do feel sorry
for him.



--
M0WYM
Sales @ radiowymsey
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Sales-At-Radio-Wymsey/
http://sales-at-radio-wymsey.ebid.net/

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

"Stephen Thomas Cole" wrote in message
...
Indeed. The pirate 2E0WYM here, for example, is masquerading as a full
licensee, having avoided training to the correct standard by fortuitously
"finding" and cashing in an allegedly 40 year old RAE pass certificate to
dodge the current, rigorous Full Licence exam.

If his certificate is 40 years old he will have passed the old written exam
and not the current multiple choice paper. Have you seen any of the question
papers from that era?
--
;-)
..
73 de Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI - mine's a pint.
..
http://turner-smith.co.uk

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 10:40:58 +0100, Percy Picacity wrote:

AMI, that is almost certainly an actionable libel. Shame I doubt if you
have enough money to be worth suing.

I'm sure your right - on both counts! He's just trying to wind me but
being the better man I merely pity him. And pity is cheap!



--
M0WYM
Sales @ radiowymsey
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Sales-At-Radio-Wymsey/
http://sales-at-radio-wymsey.ebid.net/

Crystal phasing & single signal reception
 

On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 10:47:28 +0100, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

just put steve down

I saw that and a nursery rhyme came to mind

"Ding dong dell
pussy's down the well"

Went to the MKARS rally yesterday - pretty small but a good site if they
can get more sellers. I think the weather put the the car booters off.
bAndover next weekend. Nice day out though.



--
M0WYM
Sales @ radiowymsey
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Sales-At-Radio-Wymsey/
http://sales-at-radio-wymsey.ebid.net/