If you can figure out where he works, ask them to check their copier usage.

PJ

"Nocturnal1" wrote in message
...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=25 409


Take a look at this and all his other "manuals" - maybe ripped from BAMA
ftp
site? It only takes one joker like this to wreck it for all of us. Is this
copyright infringement?

~Tom

Hey guys - you are not making ANY sense! Copyright has
NOTHING repeat NOTHING to do with the making money
from a 'stolen' work.

BAMA IS VIOLATING THE SAME COPYRIGHTS!!!!!!!
And yet they are somehow saints on this matter.

You all sit and chastise W7FG and HI Manuals and all the rest,
but damnit BAMA is doing the SAME THING. The fact they
don't charge has NOTHING to do with the issue of 'violating
copyrights'.

So if all you zealots want a BIG and I mean BIG hit for
your agenda, then GO AFTER BAMA, instead of defending
them and their LOUSY and UNREADABLE scans!!!

Otherwise shut the hell up about it! More power to ANYONE
who takes the time to make a saleable copy of a manual that
for $10 or so can actually be READ, rather than the STOLEN
COPYRIGHT FREE version from BAMA that looks like it was
scanned at 5 DPI.

Joe


"PJ" wrote in message
...
If you can figure out where he works, ask them to check their copier
usage.

PJ

"Nocturnal1" wrote in message
...


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=25 409


Take a look at this and all his other "manuals" - maybe ripped from BAMA
ftp
site? It only takes one joker like this to wreck it for all of us. Is
this
copyright infringement?

~Tom

It seems that if one owns the equipment, he has a right to the docs for it.
John
"Joe" wrote in message
news.com...
Hey guys - you are not making ANY sense! Copyright has
NOTHING repeat NOTHING to do with the making money
from a 'stolen' work.

BAMA IS VIOLATING THE SAME COPYRIGHTS!!!!!!!
And yet they are somehow saints on this matter.

You all sit and chastise W7FG and HI Manuals and all the rest,
but damnit BAMA is doing the SAME THING. The fact they
don't charge has NOTHING to do with the issue of 'violating
copyrights'.

So if all you zealots want a BIG and I mean BIG hit for
your agenda, then GO AFTER BAMA, instead of defending
them and their LOUSY and UNREADABLE scans!!!

Otherwise shut the hell up about it! More power to ANYONE
who takes the time to make a saleable copy of a manual that
for $10 or so can actually be READ, rather than the STOLEN
COPYRIGHT FREE version from BAMA that looks like it was
scanned at 5 DPI.

Joe


"PJ" wrote in message
...
If you can figure out where he works, ask them to check their copier
usage.

PJ

"Nocturnal1" wrote in message
...



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=25 409


Take a look at this and all his other "manuals" - maybe ripped from
BAMA
ftp
site? It only takes one joker like this to wreck it for all of us. Is
this
copyright infringement?

~Tom

"John D. Farr" wrote in message
...
It seems that if one owns the equipment, he has a right to the docs for
it.
John


Would that were true! g

Yeah, in days of old, equipment always came with at least a schematic, even
if it was glued to the inside of the wood case.

But along the way, stuff got a lot more complicated. In 1960 or so, when you
bought a Tek 555 scope, you got a full manual too, a couple of inches of
docs. But the pressure builds to trim costs, and by the 70's, you spend $15k
for an instrument, and all you get is an Operational Manual. The two-inch
thick Service Manual, with theory, parts list, diagnostic trees, and typical
waveforms is $100 extra.

If I want the full docs now for say, an HP-8566B or an HP-8471A, I better
bring a cart. There's an Operator's Manual, a Service Manual, a Programmers
Manual, and a Parts List, Spares List & Calibration Manual. And they each
fill a 3" notebook binder!

Actually, the days of big manuals may be gone already. New equipment now is
much more disposable; you don't find a master tech troubleshooting a complex
equipment. Instead, they slap on an IEEE-488 diagnostic cable, run the
factory supplied calibration and diagnostic, and, if it can't be fixed in
software, it likely gets declared too expensive to fix. Junk it!

And if you think that's gonna mean a new golden age of surplus, you're
wrong. Modern gear is more computer than anything else. There's not much you
can do when you see the signal go into a proprietary chip, and nothing comes
out. And the construction is now all surface-mount stuff, with trace spacing
so close it looks like a Moiré pattern. I defy you to probe any ONE trace.
OK, so maybe you like using a microscope. g

Ed
WB6WSN

Ed Price wrote:

"John D. Farr" wrote in message
...
It seems that if one owns the equipment, he has a right to the docs for
it.
John

Would that were true! g

Yeah, in days of old, equipment always came with at least a schematic, even
if it was glued to the inside of the wood case.

But along the way, stuff got a lot more complicated. In 1960 or so, when you
bought a Tek 555 scope, you got a full manual too, a couple of inches of
docs. But the pressure builds to trim costs, and by the 70's, you spend $15k
for an instrument, and all you get is an Operational Manual. The two-inch
thick Service Manual, with theory, parts list, diagnostic trees, and typical
waveforms is $100 extra.

If I want the full docs now for say, an HP-8566B or an HP-8471A, I better
bring a cart. There's an Operator's Manual, a Service Manual, a Programmers
Manual, and a Parts List, Spares List & Calibration Manual. And they each
fill a 3" notebook binder!

Actually, the days of big manuals may be gone already. New equipment now is
much more disposable; you don't find a master tech troubleshooting a complex
equipment. Instead, they slap on an IEEE-488 diagnostic cable, run the
factory supplied calibration and diagnostic, and, if it can't be fixed in
software, it likely gets declared too expensive to fix. Junk it!

And if you think that's gonna mean a new golden age of surplus, you're
wrong. Modern gear is more computer than anything else. There's not much you
can do when you see the signal go into a proprietary chip, and nothing comes
out. And the construction is now all surface-mount stuff, with trace spacing
so close it looks like a Moiré pattern. I defy you to probe any ONE trace.
OK, so maybe you like using a microscope. g

Ed
WB6WSN

Fine pitch surface mount isn't that hard to work on, after a little
training. You do need a steady hand, and the right tools to do good
work. I spent four years doing fine pitch surface mount PC board work,
both testing and repairing boards that make a motherboard for a PC look
simple. Because of my poor vision I had to use a stereo microscope to
see the solder bridges and solder joints that cracked while the board
was cooling in the reflow oven.
--


Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Ed Price wrote:

"John D. Farr" wrote in message
...
It seems that if one owns the equipment, he has a right to the docs for
it.
John

Would that were true! g

Yeah, in days of old, equipment always came with at least a schematic, even
if it was glued to the inside of the wood case.

But along the way, stuff got a lot more complicated. In 1960 or so, when you
bought a Tek 555 scope, you got a full manual too, a couple of inches of
docs. But the pressure builds to trim costs, and by the 70's, you spend $15k
for an instrument, and all you get is an Operational Manual. The two-inch
thick Service Manual, with theory, parts list, diagnostic trees, and typical
waveforms is $100 extra.

If I want the full docs now for say, an HP-8566B or an HP-8471A, I better
bring a cart. There's an Operator's Manual, a Service Manual, a Programmers
Manual, and a Parts List, Spares List & Calibration Manual. And they each
fill a 3" notebook binder!

Actually, the days of big manuals may be gone already. New equipment now is
much more disposable; you don't find a master tech troubleshooting a complex
equipment. Instead, they slap on an IEEE-488 diagnostic cable, run the
factory supplied calibration and diagnostic, and, if it can't be fixed in
software, it likely gets declared too expensive to fix. Junk it!

And if you think that's gonna mean a new golden age of surplus, you're
wrong. Modern gear is more computer than anything else. There's not much you
can do when you see the signal go into a proprietary chip, and nothing comes
out. And the construction is now all surface-mount stuff, with trace spacing
so close it looks like a Moiré pattern. I defy you to probe any ONE trace.
OK, so maybe you like using a microscope. g

Ed
WB6WSN

Fine pitch surface mount isn't that hard to work on, after a little
training. You do need a steady hand, and the right tools to do good
work. I spent four years doing fine pitch surface mount PC board work,
both testing and repairing boards that make a motherboard for a PC look
simple. Because of my poor vision I had to use a stereo microscope to
see the solder bridges and solder joints that cracked while the board
was cooling in the reflow oven.
--


Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

"John D. Farr" wrote in message
...
It seems that if one owns the equipment, he has a right to the docs for
it.
John


Would that were true! g

Yeah, in days of old, equipment always came with at least a schematic, even
if it was glued to the inside of the wood case.

But along the way, stuff got a lot more complicated. In 1960 or so, when you
bought a Tek 555 scope, you got a full manual too, a couple of inches of
docs. But the pressure builds to trim costs, and by the 70's, you spend $15k
for an instrument, and all you get is an Operational Manual. The two-inch
thick Service Manual, with theory, parts list, diagnostic trees, and typical
waveforms is $100 extra.

If I want the full docs now for say, an HP-8566B or an HP-8471A, I better
bring a cart. There's an Operator's Manual, a Service Manual, a Programmers
Manual, and a Parts List, Spares List & Calibration Manual. And they each
fill a 3" notebook binder!

Actually, the days of big manuals may be gone already. New equipment now is
much more disposable; you don't find a master tech troubleshooting a complex
equipment. Instead, they slap on an IEEE-488 diagnostic cable, run the
factory supplied calibration and diagnostic, and, if it can't be fixed in
software, it likely gets declared too expensive to fix. Junk it!

And if you think that's gonna mean a new golden age of surplus, you're
wrong. Modern gear is more computer than anything else. There's not much you
can do when you see the signal go into a proprietary chip, and nothing comes
out. And the construction is now all surface-mount stuff, with trace spacing
so close it looks like a Moiré pattern. I defy you to probe any ONE trace.
OK, so maybe you like using a microscope. g

Ed
WB6WSN

"John D. Farr" wrote in message
...
It seems that if one owns the equipment, he has a right to the docs for
it.
John


Then he/she should make sure that they get the document with the equipment.
If you buy used equipment, make sure the seller has the document or go buy
the documents from the maker of the equipment.

However, since the people who are selling the copies are doing so "out in
the open" and even advertising it, the copyright holders could easily shut
them down in they wanted to. Since the copyright holders choose not to do
so, then I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Out of print is not an excuse for violating copyright by the way. If
something is out of print, what you are supposed to do is get permission of
the copyright holder before making a copy. If you can't find the copyright
holder, you are generally off the hook if you can demonstrate that you have
made every reasonable effort to find them.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"John D. Farr" wrote in message
...
It seems that if one owns the equipment, he has a right to the docs for
it.
John


Then he/she should make sure that they get the document with the equipment.
If you buy used equipment, make sure the seller has the document or go buy
the documents from the maker of the equipment.

However, since the people who are selling the copies are doing so "out in
the open" and even advertising it, the copyright holders could easily shut
them down in they wanted to. Since the copyright holders choose not to do
so, then I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Out of print is not an excuse for violating copyright by the way. If
something is out of print, what you are supposed to do is get permission of
the copyright holder before making a copy. If you can't find the copyright
holder, you are generally off the hook if you can demonstrate that you have
made every reasonable effort to find them.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

It seems that if one owns the equipment, he has a right to the docs for it.
John
"Joe" wrote in message
news.com...
Hey guys - you are not making ANY sense! Copyright has
NOTHING repeat NOTHING to do with the making money
from a 'stolen' work.

BAMA IS VIOLATING THE SAME COPYRIGHTS!!!!!!!
And yet they are somehow saints on this matter.

You all sit and chastise W7FG and HI Manuals and all the rest,
but damnit BAMA is doing the SAME THING. The fact they
don't charge has NOTHING to do with the issue of 'violating
copyrights'.

So if all you zealots want a BIG and I mean BIG hit for
your agenda, then GO AFTER BAMA, instead of defending
them and their LOUSY and UNREADABLE scans!!!

Otherwise shut the hell up about it! More power to ANYONE
who takes the time to make a saleable copy of a manual that
for $10 or so can actually be READ, rather than the STOLEN
COPYRIGHT FREE version from BAMA that looks like it was
scanned at 5 DPI.

Joe


"PJ" wrote in message
...
If you can figure out where he works, ask them to check their copier
usage.

PJ

"Nocturnal1" wrote in message
...



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=25 409


Take a look at this and all his other "manuals" - maybe ripped from
BAMA
ftp
site? It only takes one joker like this to wreck it for all of us. Is
this
copyright infringement?

~Tom