"Roger Halstead" wrote

You mean like writting for QST? :-))



*** Perhaps you can issue the writs against those copyright infringers.
Brian Goldsmith.

"Roger Halstead" wrote

You mean like writting for QST? :-))



*** Perhaps you can issue the writs against those copyright infringers.
Brian Goldsmith.

"John D. Farr" wrote in message
...
It seems that if one owns the equipment, he has a right to the docs for
it.
John


Would that were true! g

Yeah, in days of old, equipment always came with at least a schematic, even
if it was glued to the inside of the wood case.

But along the way, stuff got a lot more complicated. In 1960 or so, when you
bought a Tek 555 scope, you got a full manual too, a couple of inches of
docs. But the pressure builds to trim costs, and by the 70's, you spend $15k
for an instrument, and all you get is an Operational Manual. The two-inch
thick Service Manual, with theory, parts list, diagnostic trees, and typical
waveforms is $100 extra.

If I want the full docs now for say, an HP-8566B or an HP-8471A, I better
bring a cart. There's an Operator's Manual, a Service Manual, a Programmers
Manual, and a Parts List, Spares List & Calibration Manual. And they each
fill a 3" notebook binder!

Actually, the days of big manuals may be gone already. New equipment now is
much more disposable; you don't find a master tech troubleshooting a complex
equipment. Instead, they slap on an IEEE-488 diagnostic cable, run the
factory supplied calibration and diagnostic, and, if it can't be fixed in
software, it likely gets declared too expensive to fix. Junk it!

And if you think that's gonna mean a new golden age of surplus, you're
wrong. Modern gear is more computer than anything else. There's not much you
can do when you see the signal go into a proprietary chip, and nothing comes
out. And the construction is now all surface-mount stuff, with trace spacing
so close it looks like a Moiré pattern. I defy you to probe any ONE trace.
OK, so maybe you like using a microscope. g

Ed
WB6WSN

"John D. Farr" wrote in message
...
It seems that if one owns the equipment, he has a right to the docs for
it.
John


Would that were true! g

Yeah, in days of old, equipment always came with at least a schematic, even
if it was glued to the inside of the wood case.

But along the way, stuff got a lot more complicated. In 1960 or so, when you
bought a Tek 555 scope, you got a full manual too, a couple of inches of
docs. But the pressure builds to trim costs, and by the 70's, you spend $15k
for an instrument, and all you get is an Operational Manual. The two-inch
thick Service Manual, with theory, parts list, diagnostic trees, and typical
waveforms is $100 extra.

If I want the full docs now for say, an HP-8566B or an HP-8471A, I better
bring a cart. There's an Operator's Manual, a Service Manual, a Programmers
Manual, and a Parts List, Spares List & Calibration Manual. And they each
fill a 3" notebook binder!

Actually, the days of big manuals may be gone already. New equipment now is
much more disposable; you don't find a master tech troubleshooting a complex
equipment. Instead, they slap on an IEEE-488 diagnostic cable, run the
factory supplied calibration and diagnostic, and, if it can't be fixed in
software, it likely gets declared too expensive to fix. Junk it!

And if you think that's gonna mean a new golden age of surplus, you're
wrong. Modern gear is more computer than anything else. There's not much you
can do when you see the signal go into a proprietary chip, and nothing comes
out. And the construction is now all surface-mount stuff, with trace spacing
so close it looks like a Moiré pattern. I defy you to probe any ONE trace.
OK, so maybe you like using a microscope. g

Ed
WB6WSN

"Roger Halstead" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:00:41 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:


"Nocturnal1" wrote in message
...
If I had my druthers,
there would be no copyright law and everything would be freely
available
for
downloading...


Nobody would write any new material in that case. It wouldn't be worth
their time and effort.


You mean like writting for QST? :-))
It's the prestige that counts.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)


Prestige will only get a limited amount of material written. Afterall if
people aren't paid for their work, their time to write will be limited due
to the fact that they've got to have a regular job to keep body and soul
together.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Roger Halstead" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:00:41 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:


"Nocturnal1" wrote in message
...
If I had my druthers,
there would be no copyright law and everything would be freely
available
for
downloading...


Nobody would write any new material in that case. It wouldn't be worth
their time and effort.


You mean like writting for QST? :-))
It's the prestige that counts.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)


Prestige will only get a limited amount of material written. Afterall if
people aren't paid for their work, their time to write will be limited due
to the fact that they've got to have a regular job to keep body and soul
together.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"John D. Farr" wrote in message
...
It seems that if one owns the equipment, he has a right to the docs for
it.
John


Then he/she should make sure that they get the document with the equipment.
If you buy used equipment, make sure the seller has the document or go buy
the documents from the maker of the equipment.

However, since the people who are selling the copies are doing so "out in
the open" and even advertising it, the copyright holders could easily shut
them down in they wanted to. Since the copyright holders choose not to do
so, then I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Out of print is not an excuse for violating copyright by the way. If
something is out of print, what you are supposed to do is get permission of
the copyright holder before making a copy. If you can't find the copyright
holder, you are generally off the hook if you can demonstrate that you have
made every reasonable effort to find them.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"John D. Farr" wrote in message
...
It seems that if one owns the equipment, he has a right to the docs for
it.
John


Then he/she should make sure that they get the document with the equipment.
If you buy used equipment, make sure the seller has the document or go buy
the documents from the maker of the equipment.

However, since the people who are selling the copies are doing so "out in
the open" and even advertising it, the copyright holders could easily shut
them down in they wanted to. Since the copyright holders choose not to do
so, then I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Out of print is not an excuse for violating copyright by the way. If
something is out of print, what you are supposed to do is get permission of
the copyright holder before making a copy. If you can't find the copyright
holder, you are generally off the hook if you can demonstrate that you have
made every reasonable effort to find them.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Ed Price wrote:

"John D. Farr" wrote in message
...
It seems that if one owns the equipment, he has a right to the docs for
it.
John

Would that were true! g

Yeah, in days of old, equipment always came with at least a schematic, even
if it was glued to the inside of the wood case.

But along the way, stuff got a lot more complicated. In 1960 or so, when you
bought a Tek 555 scope, you got a full manual too, a couple of inches of
docs. But the pressure builds to trim costs, and by the 70's, you spend $15k
for an instrument, and all you get is an Operational Manual. The two-inch
thick Service Manual, with theory, parts list, diagnostic trees, and typical
waveforms is $100 extra.

If I want the full docs now for say, an HP-8566B or an HP-8471A, I better
bring a cart. There's an Operator's Manual, a Service Manual, a Programmers
Manual, and a Parts List, Spares List & Calibration Manual. And they each
fill a 3" notebook binder!

Actually, the days of big manuals may be gone already. New equipment now is
much more disposable; you don't find a master tech troubleshooting a complex
equipment. Instead, they slap on an IEEE-488 diagnostic cable, run the
factory supplied calibration and diagnostic, and, if it can't be fixed in
software, it likely gets declared too expensive to fix. Junk it!

And if you think that's gonna mean a new golden age of surplus, you're
wrong. Modern gear is more computer than anything else. There's not much you
can do when you see the signal go into a proprietary chip, and nothing comes
out. And the construction is now all surface-mount stuff, with trace spacing
so close it looks like a Moiré pattern. I defy you to probe any ONE trace.
OK, so maybe you like using a microscope. g

Ed
WB6WSN

Fine pitch surface mount isn't that hard to work on, after a little
training. You do need a steady hand, and the right tools to do good
work. I spent four years doing fine pitch surface mount PC board work,
both testing and repairing boards that make a motherboard for a PC look
simple. Because of my poor vision I had to use a stereo microscope to
see the solder bridges and solder joints that cracked while the board
was cooling in the reflow oven.
--


Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Ed Price wrote:

"John D. Farr" wrote in message
...
It seems that if one owns the equipment, he has a right to the docs for
it.
John

Would that were true! g

Yeah, in days of old, equipment always came with at least a schematic, even
if it was glued to the inside of the wood case.

But along the way, stuff got a lot more complicated. In 1960 or so, when you
bought a Tek 555 scope, you got a full manual too, a couple of inches of
docs. But the pressure builds to trim costs, and by the 70's, you spend $15k
for an instrument, and all you get is an Operational Manual. The two-inch
thick Service Manual, with theory, parts list, diagnostic trees, and typical
waveforms is $100 extra.

If I want the full docs now for say, an HP-8566B or an HP-8471A, I better
bring a cart. There's an Operator's Manual, a Service Manual, a Programmers
Manual, and a Parts List, Spares List & Calibration Manual. And they each
fill a 3" notebook binder!

Actually, the days of big manuals may be gone already. New equipment now is
much more disposable; you don't find a master tech troubleshooting a complex
equipment. Instead, they slap on an IEEE-488 diagnostic cable, run the
factory supplied calibration and diagnostic, and, if it can't be fixed in
software, it likely gets declared too expensive to fix. Junk it!

And if you think that's gonna mean a new golden age of surplus, you're
wrong. Modern gear is more computer than anything else. There's not much you
can do when you see the signal go into a proprietary chip, and nothing comes
out. And the construction is now all surface-mount stuff, with trace spacing
so close it looks like a Moiré pattern. I defy you to probe any ONE trace.
OK, so maybe you like using a microscope. g

Ed
WB6WSN

Fine pitch surface mount isn't that hard to work on, after a little
training. You do need a steady hand, and the right tools to do good
work. I spent four years doing fine pitch surface mount PC board work,
both testing and repairing boards that make a motherboard for a PC look
simple. Because of my poor vision I had to use a stereo microscope to
see the solder bridges and solder joints that cracked while the board
was cooling in the reflow oven.
--


Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida