"No One You Know" wrote in message
oups.com...
One way to stop these thieves is to have the BAMA site print on every
page in bold letters "THIS MANUAL IS FROM THE BAMA MANUAL ARCHIVE" or
some other wording. This placed on the front cover and table of
contents might at least slow down the stupid thieves.

Any other legal ideas?


I don't know if this manual heist would be considered 'stolen' but the link
for stolen property reports on Ebay is :

http://pages.ebay.com/help/contact_u...n=Continue+%3E


Might just get the attention of Ebay if enough people report him and other
bipedal fecaloids attempting to profit from BAMA.

Albert & Btittany Spear wrote:
"No One You Know" wrote in message
oups.com...

One way to stop these thieves is to have the BAMA site print on every
page in bold letters "THIS MANUAL IS FROM THE BAMA MANUAL ARCHIVE" or
some other wording. This placed on the front cover and table of
contents might at least slow down the stupid thieves.

Any other legal ideas?



I don't know if this manual heist would be considered 'stolen' but the link
for stolen property reports on Ebay is :

http://pages.ebay.com/help/contact_u...n=Continue+%3E


Might just get the attention of Ebay if enough people report him and other
bipedal fecaloids attempting to profit from BAMA.


Here is a more honest manual seller.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=3093105 539

Hate to be a wet blanket, but how do you know that half of the stuff on BAMA
is not pirated and should never have been posted there in the first place?

Not all old schematics & manuals are in the public domain. For instance,
SAMS Technical Publishing, http://www.samswebsite.com/photofacts.html , is
still alive and well, and they have an understandable interest in keeping
people from distributing free, unauthorized copies of their Photofacts to
the world.

Just because you buy a copy of something, scan it, and upload to the
Internet, doesn't mean that it is "yours" to give away to the world.

If I scan the latest Tom Clancy novel and post his book on the Internet, I
am violating his copyright, pure and simple.

The only exceptions would be if :

[A] I have Tom Clancy's permission to distribute free copies of his latest
novel on the Internet,

or,

[b] I can prove in a court of law that Tom's copyright has expired or been
abandoned for some reason.

If I don't have [A] or [b] on my side, then Tom kicks my butt and closes me
down.

That said, I'm a supporter & lover of sites such as BAMA and
www.nostalgiaair.org , which supply valuable information to people around
the world. I have used these sites, and pointed fellow collectors to them.
But I don't download or upload anything that I think is not authorized.

So, be careful about getting too outraged because somebody might be making
an unauthorized copy of your uploaded copy which might also be unauthorized.
You never owned the copyright in the first place.

Here are some links with more information about copyright:

http://www.whatiscopyright.org/

http://fairuse.stanford.edu/

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copyright.html

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

And, the ultimate authority:

http://www.copyright.gov/

Regards,

Phil Nelson

Hate to be a wet blanket

Well you are


"Phil Nelson" wrote in message
...
Hate to be a wet blanket, but how do you know that half of the stuff on
BAMA is not pirated and should never have been posted there in the first
place?

Not all old schematics & manuals are in the public domain. For instance,
SAMS Technical Publishing, http://www.samswebsite.com/photofacts.html , is
still alive and well, and they have an understandable interest in keeping
people from distributing free, unauthorized copies of their Photofacts to
the world.

Just because you buy a copy of something, scan it, and upload to the
Internet, doesn't mean that it is "yours" to give away to the world.

If I scan the latest Tom Clancy novel and post his book on the Internet, I
am violating his copyright, pure and simple.

The only exceptions would be if :

[A] I have Tom Clancy's permission to distribute free copies of his latest
novel on the Internet,

or,

[b] I can prove in a court of law that Tom's copyright has expired or been
abandoned for some reason.

If I don't have [A] or [b] on my side, then Tom kicks my butt and closes
me down.

That said, I'm a supporter & lover of sites such as BAMA and
www.nostalgiaair.org , which supply valuable information to people around
the world. I have used these sites, and pointed fellow collectors to them.
But I don't download or upload anything that I think is not authorized.

So, be careful about getting too outraged because somebody might be making
an unauthorized copy of your uploaded copy which might also be
unauthorized. You never owned the copyright in the first place.

Here are some links with more information about copyright:

http://www.whatiscopyright.org/

http://fairuse.stanford.edu/

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copyright.html

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

And, the ultimate authority:

http://www.copyright.gov/

Regards,

Phil Nelson

In article ,
Phil Nelson wrote:
Hate to be a wet blanket, but how do you know that half of the stuff on BAMA
is not pirated and should never have been posted there in the first place?

Not all old schematics & manuals are in the public domain. For instance,
SAMS Technical Publishing, http://www.samswebsite.com/photofacts.html , is
still alive and well, and they have an understandable interest in keeping
people from distributing free, unauthorized copies of their Photofacts to
the world.

Just because you buy a copy of something, scan it, and upload to the
Internet, doesn't mean that it is "yours" to give away to the world.

If I scan the latest Tom Clancy novel and post his book on the Internet, I
am violating his copyright, pure and simple.

The only exceptions would be if :

[A] I have Tom Clancy's permission to distribute free copies of his latest
novel on the Internet,

or,

[b] I can prove in a court of law that Tom's copyright has expired or been
abandoned for some reason.

Not quite right. Unlike trademark, copyrights _cannot_ be 'abandoned'. A
copyright owner can have failed to go after any infringer for 50 years, and
then decides to go after _you_. "But everybody else is doing it, without
being sued" is NOT a defense.

In the U.S. (although _not_ in many other countries), it is possible for a
copyright holder to 'disclaim' their copyright rights, via an express statement
that they are placing the work "in the public domain". That disclaimer, once
made, cannot be withdrawn. Nor can the author prosecute for copyright
infringement any action that occurs after the disclaimer.


If I don't have [A] or [b] on my side, then Tom kicks my butt and closes me
down.

Almost correct. Qualify it with "if he so chooses", and it is exactly
correct. Given the probable dollar value losses due to the unauthorized
copying, "if he so chooses" is a VIRTUAL CERTAINTY. And I'm picking a nit
that "effectively" makes no difference. grin


I'll just add the following caveats:
1) "Anonymous" works -- with no author named, *are* protected by copyright.
2) An inability to identify the current holder of the copyright does *NOT*
mean that one is free to copy that material. To avoid potential problems
one _must_ have the permission of the copyright holder(s).
3) When a company goes "out of business", *somebody* gets ownership of
the property that that company owned. That which is not sold is
distributed among the remaining owners of the company. In the case
of a corporation, this is anyone who still held shares at the time of
the dissolution. This gets *real* messy for intellectual property,
see item 2 above.
4) to be 'safe', if you don't have copyright owner permission, you better
be able to *prove* that copyright has expired, or has been disclaimed.

On Mon, 16 May 2005 08:08:26 -0000,
(Robert Bonomi) wrote:

In article ,
Phil Nelson wrote:
Hate to be a wet blanket, but how do you know that half of the stuff on BAMA
is not pirated and should never have been posted there in the first place?

Not all old schematics & manuals are in the public domain. For instance,
SAMS Technical Publishing, http://www.samswebsite.com/photofacts.html , is
still alive and well, and they have an understandable interest in keeping
people from distributing free, unauthorized copies of their Photofacts to
the world.

Just because you buy a copy of something, scan it, and upload to the
Internet, doesn't mean that it is "yours" to give away to the world.

If I scan the latest Tom Clancy novel and post his book on the Internet, I
am violating his copyright, pure and simple.

The only exceptions would be if :

[A] I have Tom Clancy's permission to distribute free copies of his latest
novel on the Internet,

or,

[b] I can prove in a court of law that Tom's copyright has expired or been
abandoned for some reason.

Not quite right. Unlike trademark, copyrights _cannot_ be 'abandoned'. A
copyright owner can have failed to go after any infringer for 50 years, and
then decides to go after _you_. "But everybody else is doing it, without
being sued" is NOT a defense.

In the U.S. (although _not_ in many other countries), it is possible for a
copyright holder to 'disclaim' their copyright rights, via an express statement
that they are placing the work "in the public domain". That disclaimer, once
made, cannot be withdrawn. Nor can the author prosecute for copyright
infringement any action that occurs after the disclaimer.


If I don't have [A] or [b] on my side, then Tom kicks my butt and closes me
down.

Almost correct. Qualify it with "if he so chooses", and it is exactly
correct. Given the probable dollar value losses due to the unauthorized
copying, "if he so chooses" is a VIRTUAL CERTAINTY. And I'm picking a nit
that "effectively" makes no difference. grin


I'll just add the following caveats:
1) "Anonymous" works -- with no author named, *are* protected by copyright.
2) An inability to identify the current holder of the copyright does *NOT*
mean that one is free to copy that material. To avoid potential problems
one _must_ have the permission of the copyright holder(s).
3) When a company goes "out of business", *somebody* gets ownership of
the property that that company owned. That which is not sold is
distributed among the remaining owners of the company. In the case
of a corporation, this is anyone who still held shares at the time of
the dissolution. This gets *real* messy for intellectual property,
see item 2 above.
4) to be 'safe', if you don't have copyright owner permission, you better
be able to *prove* that copyright has expired, or has been disclaimed.



Yep -- it's an interesting problem. I recently read an article
about all the good computer code buried, and no longer available, from
outfits like Lernout and Hauspie, which produced the best available
voice recognition products. When the outfit went under, someone
acquired the rights to all that code. Apparently they didn't know the
actual value of it, so they chose not to let anyone have it for fear
of being undercompensated for it.

On Sat, 14 May 2005 11:04:02 UTC, "No One You Know"
wrote:

One way to stop these thieves is to have the BAMA site print on every
page in bold letters "THIS MANUAL IS FROM THE BAMA MANUAL ARCHIVE" or
some other wording. This placed on the front cover and table of
contents might at least slow down the stupid thieves.

Any other legal ideas?


well, you have it backwards. Ignoring the issue of who owns the
copyright to manuals that are no longer available from the vendor
(sounds like they abandoned the copyright to me), the problem isn't
that some guy who is short on cash is downloading and selling copies
of the manuals, the problem is that no one has unloaded the entire
site to CD and isn't selling the "Hallicrafters 1959-1969", "The
Collins compendium" or "all tube SSB transmitters 1960 - 1979" or
whatever fills 500 meg of CD. Ten Bucks shipping included.

Some guy is selling Heathkit schematics on CD. I bought a disk and
the first week, needed a piece of info from it.

The first person who sells full 500 meg CDs at a low price puts
everyone else out of business AND solves the bandwidth problem on
BAMA.

I would pay 10 or so bucks for a FULL CD figuring that one manual on
it might be useful to me someday.

de ah6gi/4 Heathstuff (and some Collins 75S-1's, oh and an SX-100
too.