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On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 02:01:40 -0500, "Mark Oppat"
wrote: beerbarrel wrote... "I think we killed more than 20000 of those *******s....hopefully we will get even more." wow, this swerved way off...from UPS service to taxes to the war....totally off topic, sorry, just went down this path I have to say my last... *******s? You have your stance and I have mine......That's the magic in freedom of opinion ehh? |
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Chuck Harris wrote:
Uhmmm, the war in Iraq hasn't cost $8.9 trillion... Well, his math *is* a little off. However, the easily researchable and generally acknowledged figure of *six BILLION dollars per month* ain't exactly cheap...especially when we consider all the problems on the home front, like an out of control health care system and the jobs issue (30,000 GM employees blown out the door today). Maybe we could find a better use for that $6B/month. |
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I sure cherish that freedom, sir! And, I hope it spreads across the globe.
We dont always use it like we should, though. Mark Oppat "Beerbarrel" wrote in message ... On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 02:01:40 -0500, "Mark Oppat" wrote: beerbarrel wrote... "I think we killed more than 20000 of those *******s....hopefully we will get even more." wow, this swerved way off...from UPS service to taxes to the war....totally off topic, sorry, just went down this path I have to say my last... *******s? You have your stance and I have mine......That's the magic in freedom of opinion ehh? |
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Beerbarrel wrote:
Uhmmm, the war in Iraq hasn't cost $8.9 trillion... You really are mentally rather lazy there senior. -Chuck Agreed! This isnt the war cost, this is how much Mr Bush has cost us since he has been in power.Did you even READ the LINK? You are really pathetic but you cant change the numbers or performance of our President. Bush started out with billions of dollars surplus from Mr. Clinton. This should surprise no one, Bush's Father had us in the hole too. It took a Democrat 8 years to get things balanced and the present Prez ****ed it all away. He squandered it all, giving tax cuts to the rich and oil companies and so on AND getting us into a war that we didnt need to start. Now we are 8 trillion in the hole with no end in sight. Lazy Senior |
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xrongor wrote:
ah the conservatives always bring it down to this level when they have nothing else to say. randy Well said Mr. Liberal! Want to share the cat food? see what i mean? randy Randy You are a breath of fresh air in this forum. Whenever Conservatives cant prove you wrong they call you a Liberal or try to ridicule you. Aint nothing wrong with being a Liberal, nor is there anything wrong with being a Conservative. They all make mistakes but Bush conservatives NEVER admit they are wrong or make mistakes. that is why they are so dangerous... Lazy Senior |
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Back to the math, my calculations show that a $9 trillion total
national debt with 300 million people is $30,000 for every man, woman and child - from babies in the cradle to old people, taxpaying or not. Family of 4, that's $120,000 owed to the nation's creditors. If the war costs $200 billion (pulled that out of my butt, but it's way more than the initial $87B), that's $666 for every man, woman and child. Nice round number huh. :-) I wonder what the vote would have been if it had not been in Congress but by a vote of the people, worded thus, "Should the government charge you $666 for each man, woman and child in your household, to attack a country that has never attacked the United States, with whom we are not currently at war? BTW this is in addition to the current war in Afganistan." It would have been 299 million against. Tox |
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toxcrusadr wrote:
I wonder what the vote would have been if it had not been in Congress but by a vote of the people, worded thus, "Should the government charge you $666 for each man, woman and child in your household, to attack a country that has never attacked the United States, with whom we are not currently at war? And what if they had worded thus "Would you be willing to pay $666 so that we can begin breaking up the radical muslim gang of thugs that just killed 4000 innocent Americans and threaten to kill more?" There are people who spend more than $666 year at Starbucks. -BM |
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Lazy Senior wrote:
Beerbarrel wrote: Uhmmm, the war in Iraq hasn't cost $8.9 trillion... You really are mentally rather lazy there senior. -Chuck Agreed! This isnt the war cost, this is how much Mr Bush has cost us since he has been in power.Did you even READ the LINK? Of course I didn't. John Burns asked: "What has the monetary cost of the war been up to this point, and how many taxpayers does it assume?" And you replied: "The estimated population of the United States is 297,767,295 so each citizen's share of this debt is $27,189.05." You were clearly either very lazy in your response, or trying to imply that the war has cost $8 trillion. You are really pathetic but you cant change the numbers or performance of our President. And you are more pathetic, but you can't change that, or the numbers and performance of our President. Bush started out with billions of dollars surplus from Mr. Clinton. This should surprise no one, Bush's Father had us in the hole too. It took a Democrat 8 years to get things balanced and the present Prez ****ed it all away. The president proposes the budget, but it is congress that legislates the budget. It doesn't matter how sane the budget presented by the White House is, after congress gets done adding their pork to it, it is insane. I'm still looking for that line item veto... He squandered it all, giving tax cuts to the rich and oil companies and so on AND getting us into a war that we didnt need to start. Now we are 8 trillion in the hole with no end in sight. Uh huh. -Chuck |
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Bill wrote:
And what if they had worded thus "Would you be willing to pay $666 so that we can begin breaking up the radical muslim gang of thugs that just killed 4000 innocent Americans and threaten to kill more?" -BM Dont try to re-write history, the Iraq War had nothing to do with 9-11 Lazy Senior |
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toxcrusadr wrote:
I wonder what the vote would have been if it had not been in Congress but by a vote of the people, worded thus, "Should the government charge you $666 for each man, woman and child in your household, to attack a country that has never attacked the United States, with whom we are not currently at war? BTW this is in addition to the current war in Afganistan." It would have been 299 million against. Tox Add to that: In addition to the $$ cost, your son, grandson, husband, brother may die....... Lazy Senior |
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Lazy Senior wrote:
Bill wrote: And what if they had worded thus "Would you be willing to pay $666 so that we can begin breaking up the radical muslim gang of thugs that just killed 4000 innocent Americans and threaten to kill more?" -BM Dont try to re-write history, the Iraq War had nothing to do with 9-11 Then you explain to me why the US went into Iraq? To steal the oil from them? Cuz Saddam threatened to kill Dubya's daddy? To build that pipeline across the country to the Caspian Sea? (no, wait, that was Afghanistan). Just to fill the pockets of Dubya and his cronies with cash? Think like an mature adult. Iraq has nothing directly to do with Bali I and II, Madrid bombings, London bombings, pushing Irving Klinghoffer off of a cruise ship in his wheelchair, Beirut hostage taking, chopping off Daniel Perl's head...on and on for the past 30 years. But what they DID have was WMDs and a propensity to use them against their own internal enemies and a sympathy with the nutcases waging war against the West. Its pretty clear that Saddam's Iraq had the MOST resources at the disposal of factions like the 9/11 murderers and was a good place to start. You cannot separate 9/11 from today's Iraq. The little mini-incidents that the radical muslims have perpetrated against the West pale in comparison to the 4000 lives lost right here on US soil. To not do something about it would be folly. If 9/11 had not occurred, we wouldn't be there. In that sense Iraq has much to do with 9/11. I respect the people who must make these bold decisions and the foot-soldiers obliged to carry out the task. I'm neither a politician or a military strategist - and subsequently I'm not a Monday Morning Quarterback calling the game that isn't finished yet. I'm glad this type of whining "it costs every taxpayer $xxx" didn't happen in 1944. Back then "Blame America First" wasn't very fashionable. -Bill |
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On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:29:44 GMT, Lazy Senior
wrote: toxcrusadr wrote: I wonder what the vote would have been if it had not been in Congress but by a vote of the people, worded thus, "Should the government charge you $666 for each man, woman and child in your household, to attack a country that has never attacked the United States, with whom we are not currently at war? BTW this is in addition to the current war in Afganistan." It would have been 299 million against. Tox Add to that: In addition to the $$ cost, your son, grandson, husband, brother may die....... Lazy Senior Yep...could happen. Hey, I though you were leaving this group? |
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I agree with you there... On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:40:20 -0500, "Mark Oppat" wrote: I sure cherish that freedom, sir! And, I hope it spreads across the globe. We dont always use it like we should, though. Mark Oppat "Beerbarrel" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 02:01:40 -0500, "Mark Oppat" wrote: beerbarrel wrote... "I think we killed more than 20000 of those *******s....hopefully we will get even more." wow, this swerved way off...from UPS service to taxes to the war....totally off topic, sorry, just went down this path I have to say my last... *******s? You have your stance and I have mine......That's the magic in freedom of opinion ehh? |
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Bill wrote:
But what they DID have was WMDs -Bill Bill You been watching WAY too much Fox News Network. Iraq HAD WMD's? Where you been the last year?? Lazy Senior |
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Bill wrote:
Then you explain to me why the US went into Iraq? To steal the oil from them? Cuz Saddam threatened to kill Dubya's daddy? To build that pipeline across the country to the Caspian Sea? (no, wait, that was Afghanistan). Just to fill the pockets of Dubya and his cronies with cash? I dunno about anyone else, but I'm still waiting for the explanation as to why the US went into Iraq. Best argument that I have heard is that we needed a place in the mideast to put some pressure on Saudi Arabia. But for the most part, I haven't heard any reasonable explanation for why we went into Iraq, and I'm still waiting. Quarterback calling the game that isn't finished yet. I'm glad this type of whining "it costs every taxpayer $xxx" didn't happen in 1944. Back then "Blame America First" wasn't very fashionable. Yes, but back then we had a more limited set of enemies, and we knew who they were. (Well, for the most part. It was hard to tell about Stalin.) --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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Beerbarrel wrote:
Yep...could happen. Hey, I though you were leaving this group? Havin too much fun. Someone needs to show you the error of your ways. Maybe I will get you to start thinking..... Lazy Senior |
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from the facts below im sure Alzheimer's has set in.just because you read it doesnt make it true.6 lies of commission and two
of omission and in only two paragraphs?someone is getting lazy. mit | | | Bush started out with billions of dollars surplus from Mr. Clinton. | This should surprise no one, Bush's Father had us in the hole too. It | took a Democrat 8 years to get things balanced and the present Prez | ****ed it all away. | | He squandered it all, giving tax cuts to the rich and oil companies and | so on AND getting us into a war that we didnt need to start. Now we are | 8 trillion in the hole with no end in sight. | | | Lazy Senior |
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On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 01:14:04 GMT, Lazy Senior
wrote: Beerbarrel wrote: Yep...could happen. Hey, I though you were leaving this group? Havin too much fun. Someone needs to show you the error of your ways. Maybe I will get you to start thinking..... Lazy Senior haha...you are too old and lazy to help anyone! |
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old men,women and children dont care how much it costs when they are dead.
how bout you? mit "toxcrusadr" wrote in message ups.com... | Back to the math, my calculations show that a $9 trillion total | national debt with 300 million people is $30,000 for every man, woman | and child - from babies in the cradle to old people, taxpaying or not. | Family of 4, that's $120,000 owed to the nation's creditors. | | If the war costs $200 billion (pulled that out of my butt, but it's way | more than the initial $87B), that's $666 for every man, woman and | child. Nice round number huh. :-) | | I wonder what the vote would have been if it had not been in Congress | but by a vote of the people, worded thus, "Should the government charge | you $666 for each man, woman and child in your household, to attack a | country that has never attacked the United States, with whom we are not | currently at war? BTW this is in addition to the current war in | Afganistan." | | It would have been 299 million against. | | Tox | |
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Lazy Senior wrote:
Bill wrote: But what they DID have was WMDs -Bill Bill You been watching WAY too much Fox News Network. Iraq HAD WMD's? Where you been the last year?? Lazy Senior Where is your memory? What do you think he gassed his Kurdish citizens with? Does that not count as a WMD or do you have a stricter definition? Why were UN inspectors there so many years? What about the program to DISMANTLE such manufacturing facilites after he invaded Kuwait. Why did he throw out the inspectors? Convenient for your side of the argument that you omit the implications of 4000 murdered on US soil and the need to mitigate such occurences in the future. Your 'side' is very short on alternative solutions but very long on criticism. Bad recent intelligence? You betcha. No denying that. Sold a bill of false goods by the President to start a war without any discernable reason? Lets use the same standard of proof and stop playing partisan roles. WMDs or not the underlying issues remain and thats the radical doctrine of killing anything/anybody Western. We've got plenty of proof there. Do you need proof that the Saddam regime was sympathetic to this cause and was a major point of instability in the region? We ain't gonna win this one with simple hugs and trying to be good neighbors...and we damn sure won't win it with internal bickering. Bring us a good candidate to deal with this 'quagmire' in 2008. Good night, Bill |
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On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 19:56:34 -0400, Bill wrote:
Lazy Senior wrote: Bill wrote: And what if they had worded thus "Would you be willing to pay $666 so that we can begin breaking up the radical muslim gang of thugs that just killed 4000 innocent Americans and threaten to kill more?" -BM Dont try to re-write history, the Iraq War had nothing to do with 9-11 Then you explain to me why the US went into Iraq? To steal the oil from them? Cuz Saddam threatened to kill Dubya's daddy? To build that pipeline across the country to the Caspian Sea? (no, wait, that was Afghanistan). Just to fill the pockets of Dubya and his cronies with cash? All of the above. Think like an mature adult. Iraq has nothing directly to do with Bali I and II, Madrid bombings, London bombings, pushing Irving Klinghoffer off of a cruise ship in his wheelchair, Beirut hostage taking, chopping off Daniel Perl's head...on and on for the past 30 years. But what they DID have was WMDs and a propensity Ooohhh, propensity -- that's reason for a first strike. Better hope no one gets the idea that our commander-in-thief has a "propensity" for initiating a baseless war. to use them against their own internal enemies and a sympathy with the nutcases waging war against the West. Its pretty clear that Saddam's Iraq had the MOST resources at the disposal of factions like the 9/11 murderers and was a good place to start. You cannot separate 9/11 from today's Iraq. The little mini-incidents that the radical muslims have perpetrated against the West pale in comparison to the 4000 lives lost right here on US soil. Your asshole is working overtime to disggorge a statistic like that one. To not do something about it would be folly. If 9/11 had not occurred, we wouldn't be there. In that sense Iraq has much to do with 9/11. That is the most cynical ****ing piece of circular reasoning I've ever seen. In other words, we're there because we launched a baseless war with no connection to 9/11. Therefore we're there because of 9/11. So much for your thinking "like a mature adult". I respect the people who must make these bold decisions and the foot-soldiers obliged to carry out the task. Oh, Jesus -- another "My country -- right or wrong, my country". I'm neither a politician or a military strategist ... nor much of a "mature adult" thinker. - and subsequently I'm not a Monday Morning Quarterback calling the game that isn't finished yet. ... and by decree of the head lunatic in charge, can never be finished. You'll never get to put that jersey on, so burn it now. I'm glad this type of whining "it costs every taxpayer $xxx" didn't happen in 1944. Back then "Blame America First" wasn't very fashionable. Standard right-wing dick-waggling. The fascist righties are always willing to cut a program for the less well off based on "my tax money", but they'll willingly **** away a hundred thousand times more of taxes when it goes to the foreign adventurism of a deranged president and his war-profiteering cronies. -Bill |
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On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 02:01:40 -0500, "Mark Oppat"
wrote: Some wars are just, or at least have furthered our cause. WW2, we stopped a madman. He rose to power because of injust WW1 sanctions against Germany, but thats another story. Gulf war, we stopped a madman, Wrong. I always wondered why Saddam didn't send Bush One a note five years later saying, "I've still got my job. How you doin'?" and created another (Osama + Al Queida). I'm done here. Too depressing...Back to our usual on topic discussions.... Mark Oppat " |
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On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:45:41 GMT, "MIT"
wrote: bad enough you have to hear this drivel on tv and in the papers from the liberal elite pantloads but here too? "Peace in our time" comes to mind mit Poor widdle you -- why don't you buy a computer with a delete key? "Mark Oppat" wrote in message ... | beerbarrel wrote... | "I think we killed more than 20000 of those *******s....hopefully we | will get even more." | | | wow, this swerved way off...from UPS service to taxes to the war....totally | off topic, sorry, just went down this path I have to say my last... | | *******s? most of the dead did nothing against us... ever. They just got | in the way. You can be sure that their relatives want to hurt us, now! | Why is it everyone else is an enemy until you meet them and realize they are | human, just like us, they want to live and be prosperous. They have | children, mothers, and fathers. A smaller group has taken up arms against | us... and, for reasons you might agree with if you were there. | | Religion teaches there is absolute good and absolute evil, and thats what W | and the other nuts that lead us into this believe. Big trouble, there. | Well, guess what. No person, no country, no movement, just like no radio, | is absolutely good or bad. There are very good reasons some of those Iraqis | are against us. If you were raised there you might understand that. But | rather than fix that, we made it worse. REmember, this war has NOTHING to | do with Al Queida, except they like that we are wasting our time while we | weaken ourselves and disaster recovery efforts. | | IF you could ask an insurgent why he's shooting, the # 1 answer is to | protect his country from the invaiders, the "evil" USA. OK, that's not | the smartest thought, but , thats what he believes. Hmm. If we werent | there, the shooting would decrease. Yes, there will be some other war, now | that we stirred the pot, but it has nothing to do with us. They gotta sort | that out. No country is gonna be safe because of us. | | Hmmm. The "Coalition of the Willing? ... guess thats like putting up a | sign that says "watch out for this sign". | | Not to mention the wounded, suffering slowly with no medical facilities, | no one to help. Starving because they cant work and because we have | destroyed what little support systems there were. Imagine that in your own | neighborhood. Just try. War is hell, just ask any soldier. | | You DO understand that the Iraqi citizens never plotted to attack the USA, | and had NO connection to Al Quieda. Too bad W , and much of the USA hawk | populus still doesnt understand this. There was a nutcase leader. IF we | needed to remove him, we could have done that pretty surgically, and not | shot up and bombed the whole country. Remember, Saddam's followers | deserted after his fall. They were ready to sign up with the new president, | or whoever pays their salary, but we botched that up and let massive looting | break out. | | When's the last time you heard W say "weapons of mass destruction"? Seems | thats all he could say in 2002... kept at it. All the experts, and other | national leaders, said, no. Well, Kim Jong Il sure has them.... hey, | lets bomb him! Pre-emptive strike, right? | | George Sr. knew these problems. At least he had some foreign experience. | He tried to talk W out of it, like he did Cheney and Rummy way back when. | Dad turns out to be a genius next to W. | | Thats why our real enemies are succeeding. They know we will never take | the time to understand our enemies. We like to shoot first and think later. | That is why we will never "win" another war, including this mess. | | Meanwhile, the extremists everywhere else are laughing in joy at our | failure, and why we are going to suffer further attacks for many many years | to come. | | For how long Cheney and Rumsfeld were planning this, you'd think it was put | together by some second grade art class. | | Think back to Vietnam.... what great positive change did we make in the | world... while spending 50+ of our guys and how many $$$? "We defeated | Communism!" | Uh, I dont think so. It eventually defeated itself 20 years later. | | Some wars are just, or at least have furthered our cause. WW2, we stopped a | madman. He rose to power because of injust WW1 sanctions against Germany, | but thats another story. Gulf war, we stopped a madman, and created | another (Osama + Al Queida). | | I'm done here. Too depressing...Back to our usual on topic discussions.... | | | Mark Oppat | | | " | | | |
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On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:07:50 -0500, Chuck Harris
wrote: The president proposes the budget, but it is congress that legislates the budget. Don't make no nevermind -- the war costs are off-budget. Just another "emergency". It doesn't matter how sane the budget presented by the White House is, after congress gets done adding their pork to it, it is insane. I'm still looking for that line item veto... He squandered it all, giving tax cuts to the rich and oil companies and so on AND getting us into a war that we didnt need to start. Now we are 8 trillion in the hole with no end in sight. Uh huh. -Chuck |
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John:
The amount of $$ appropriated for the Gulf War to-date is ~averaging 4.8 billion-with-a-B dollars per month. Allow 24 months, that comes to: $115,200,000,000 . 115,200,000,000/285,000,000 = $404/person. As of November 5. This does not count the thousands of contracts for 'infrastructure' and other items. That total brings the cost-per-capita to around $750/person excepting those employed by Haliburton. I would still rather see that money spent in West Virginia for schools, or Mississippi, or Louisiana, even Texas, Alabama or Arkansas. God help us, even Camden, NJ. At least when my present-and-future grandchildren are paying it back there will be a discernable benefit. But that would be too much like thinking from an administration bankrupt in that skill. Peter Wieck Wyncote, PA |
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In article . com, "Peter Wieck" wrote:
John: The amount of $$ appropriated for the Gulf War to-date is ~averaging 4.8 billion-with-a-B dollars per month. Allow 24 months, that comes to: $115,200,000,000 . 115,200,000,000/285,000,000 = $404/person. As of November 5. This does not count the thousands of contracts for 'infrastructure' and other items. That total brings the cost-per-capita to around $750/person excepting those employed by Haliburton. I would still rather see that money spent in West Virginia for schools, or Mississippi, or Louisiana, even Texas, Alabama or Arkansas. God help us, even Camden, NJ. At least when my present-and-future grandchildren are paying it back there will be a discernable benefit. But that would be too much like thinking from an administration bankrupt in that skill. Peter Wieck Wyncote, PA What is really important is how much of that money spent on the war, goes directly back to the US citizens. Much of this money supplies jobs right here. greg |
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Greg:
I spent some time in the Middle East, with Haliburton being one of my clients, amongst others. Sure, _some_ of the $$ goes back to the US in the form of jobs. A good chunk of it goes back to the US in terms of profits for the various companies. I suppose it could be argued that those profits are spent in the US, so that could be a good thing as well. At the same time, the significant majority of the money is spent in-country/in region for support services, labor, materials, etc.. Such as the gasoline purchased at $0.73/gallon in Kuwait City and resold to the US Military in Iraq (400 miles away) for $3.02 or so. I would suggest that if 100% of this money were spent in the US for things that actually benefit US citizens directly, perhaps the country as a whole would be better for it? Just a thought. It also gripes me some that the US Military is required to pay a 414% mark-up for fuel and at the same time cannot deliver proper equipment to the troops on the ground. Does it bother you that American Troops are _still_ forced to scavenge junk yards for pieces of steel to fabricate into armor? Does it bother you that private citizens, parents and Veterans Groups are _still_ purchasing body armor OTC and sending it to our military in Iraq because they are not getting that protection directly? Does it bother you that the "military intervention" (since war has not been declared) is neither fish-nor-fowl? That is, it is not being pursued with any clear operating strategy and certainly no exit strategy other than amorphous, ill-defined goals? There are not enough troops to provide any level of safety either for common citizens or even the troops themselves. There are too many not to provide regular and easy targets to the tune of about 2.7 per day, on average, fatalities. Not to mentioned wounded and crippled, not to mention US citizens as private contractors in the region. And certainly not to mention the innocent Iraqi citizens killed for no other reason than by being in the wrong place at the wrong time... many of them even while attempting to work for the overall betterment of their nation. Introducing Democracy: What a naive and silly hope. A country consisting of four rejected groups warring for over 1000 years, created by the British and held together by a "strong-man" form of Government. Don't the Balkans have ANY meaning any more? What happened when Tito died? And what is the results today some 25 years later? It won't take any 25 years in Iraq as the factions have hated each other for far longer and the fights have been much more bitter. The Shi'a were rejected by the Saudis. The Sunn'a were rejected by the Iranians. The Kurds were rejected by the Turks. The Druze were rejected by the Jordanians (and are the forgotten sect in the equation). They all want homelands. They all more-or-less had tribal autonomy before the Brits came along. They have all been fighting each other to one degree or another for well over 1000 years. The parties are playing the game, some even sincerely, until the 900 pound gorilla leaves. Then you will see the reality of that region at the fullest. I truly hope to be pleasantly surprised. I do not expect to be. And we have not even begun to discuss the other countries in the region. Iran (Farsi-speakers and NOT Arabs) fear a strong Iraq, Shi'a or otherwise. The Saudis fear a Shi'a state to their immediate north, especially one that is fundamentalist. The Turks are flatly terrified of any sort of autonomous Kurdish zone on their southern border. And the Jordanians are caught in a vice between whatever and Israel. It ain't nohow pretty. We need to quit mindlessly waving the flag and get down to cases as to what _CAN_ be done. Within that range what _SHOULD _ be done, and within that range, how much we are willing to suffer as a nation to accomplish that. Sadly, however badly the war was conceived and whether or not the so-called intelligence was manipulated maliciously or not, the US is in there, by its presence it OWES that poor crushed country a good result, yet that getting to that result appears to be beyond the national will to deliver, even by those most actively defending our presence there. Peter Wieck Wyncote, PA |
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"GregS" wrote in message ... In article . com, "Peter Wieck" wrote: John: The amount of $$ appropriated for the Gulf War to-date is ~averaging 4.8 billion-with-a-B dollars per month. Allow 24 months, that comes to: $115,200,000,000 . 115,200,000,000/285,000,000 = $404/person. As of November 5. This does not count the thousands of contracts for 'infrastructure' and other items. That total brings the cost-per-capita to around $750/person excepting those employed by Haliburton. I would still rather see that money spent in West Virginia for schools, or Mississippi, or Louisiana, even Texas, Alabama or Arkansas. God help us, even Camden, NJ. At least when my present-and-future grandchildren are paying it back there will be a discernable benefit. But that would be too much like thinking from an administration bankrupt in that skill. Peter Wieck Wyncote, PA What is really important is how much of that money spent on the war, goes directly back to the US citizens. Much of this money supplies jobs right here. lacking a real plan for the economy, the president chose a war. not the best reason to go to war... but hey, if it will help the economy, why dont we start two? randy |
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Peter Wieck wrote:
John: The amount of $$ appropriated for the Gulf War to-date is ~averaging 4.8 billion-with-a-B dollars per month. Allow 24 months, that comes to: $115,200,000,000 . 115,200,000,000/285,000,000 = $404/person. As of November 5. This does not count the thousands of contracts for 'infrastructure' and other items. That total brings the cost-per-capita to around $750/person excepting those employed by Haliburton. I would still rather see that money spent in West Virginia for schools... Thanks very much but we have plenty of schools. We have so many that a number are being closed. School consolidation is taking place. If you'd like to send us something, we could use prime beef or Stilton cheese. ...or Mississippi, or Louisiana, even Texas, Alabama or Arkansas. God help us, even Camden, NJ. At least when my present-and-future grandchildren are paying it back there will be a discernable benefit. "discernible" I think we are seeing and will see such a benefit. I don't put a price on my freedom. But that would be too much like thinking from an administration bankrupt in that skill. You're an expert in foreign policy, are you? I like a lot of folks much more when you're discussing boatanchors. Dave Heil K8MN |
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In article . com, "Peter
Wieck" wrote: John: The amount of $$ appropriated for the Gulf War to-date is ~averaging 4.8 billion-with-a-B dollars per month. Allow 24 months, that comes to: $115,200,000,000 . 115,200,000,000/285,000,000 = $404/person. As of November 5. This does not count the thousands of contracts for 'infrastructure' and other items. That total brings the cost-per-capita to around $750/person excepting those employed by Haliburton. Even allowing for the fact that not all capitas are taxpayers, that is still a far cry from the earlier claim that the cost was about $27,000 per taxpayer! Regards, John Byrns Surf my web pages at, http://users.rcn.com/jbyrns/ |
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xrongor wrote:
lacking a real plan for the economy, the president chose a war. not the best reason to go to war... but hey, if it will help the economy, why dont we start two? randy It ok as long as YOU or your family aint doin the fighing and dying...... Lazy Senior |
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Exactly my point. When arguing, uh... discussing... uh, having a
food-fight over politics the truth is a great deal more useful than wishful thinking and shoddy anecdotes. However it is not terribly popular nor terribly effective at changing 'popular perception' as any campaign manager will tell you. For that, one needs mud, deception and many shades and distortions of 'facts'. The damnable part of all this is that none of it was actually necessary. But 'we' are in it now. Clinton could not keep it in his pants and got impeached and survived the experience. GWB could not keep in in his pants, and 2000+ American Military are dead along with thousands of American civilians, and tens of thousands of innocents of several stripes. Which do you _honestly_ think is worse? Never get into a fight with a guy littler than you are. If you win you are a bully, if you lose you are a bum. And either way the other kids in the playground either fear or ridicule you. If everything we need to know we learned in Kindergarten, that is one lesson missed on Capitol Hill & the White House. Peter Wieck Wyncote PA |
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In article . com, "Peter
Wieck" wrote: The damnable part of all this is that none of it was actually necessary. But 'we' are in it now. Clinton could not keep it in his pants and got impeached and survived the experience. GWB could not keep in in his pants, and 2000+ American Military are dead along with thousands of American civilians, "thousands of American civilians", as a result of the war in Iraq? Isn't that shading the truth just a bit? Regards, John Byrns Surf my web pages at, http://users.rcn.com/jbyrns/ |
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WHOOPS!
You are correct. Civilian contractor deaths are ~285, collateral-in-region (Working in Saudi, Jordan, Turkey, Qatar and elsewhere, dead from specific attacks by al Qaeda on Civilians) exceeds 1000. All 'western' civilian deaths contractor or otherwise in Iraq also exceeds 1000. Mixed up too many numbers. Don't forget I was ~200 yards from the Oasis/Petroleum Center incidents last year in Al-Khobar when the (American) wife of a friend of mine was shot up very badly (she survived), and many were killed. Point being that none of it was/is necessary, and any positive results are dubious at best. Peter Wieck Wyncote, PA |
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In article .com, "Peter
Wieck" wrote: WHOOPS! You are correct. Civilian contractor deaths are ~285, collateral-in-region (Working in Saudi, Jordan, Turkey, Qatar and elsewhere, dead from specific attacks by al Qaeda on Civilians) exceeds 1000. Over what time period? Why doesn't the media play this up, it sounds like an opportunity they would love? Regards, John Byrns Surf my web pages at, http://users.rcn.com/jbyrns/ |
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Since the start of hostilities on Gulf II. I thought that was pretty
much the only time-period under discussion at the moment And they do. They really do. Most do not want to hear it, however. It was on NPR some mornings ago, part of a 'regular' weekly feature. I am thinking it was last Thursday, but it could have been any of the mid-week days last week that I heard it. Generally, I tend to discount most of the privately developed body counts unless sourced from two independent entities. For instance, Iraqi civilan deaths range from ~25,000+ (US military unofficial estimates based on reported deaths from publicized incidents) to 100,000 (The Lancet) to 250,000 (local sources not to be trusted at all). And "the media" is hardly pro or anti anything in its entirety. Certainly Fox is different from CNN, and Sky makes Fox look like a Liberal Bastion. It's all in accordance to what you wish to hear, what you wish to believe, and how much you choose to question "Received Wisdom". But then, most of us are acutely uncomfortable when we are confused by information that conflicts with our carefully managed and protected opinion. We would rather vilify the source of that information than allow our opinion to change. Peter Wieck Wyncote, PA |
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Peter Wieck wrote:
Clinton could not keep it in his pants and got impeached and survived the experience. Peter Wieck Wyncote PA Clinton got impeached??? How did I miss that, you been watching too much Fox News Network (AKA The Republican Channel). Lazy Senior ................................ Just for your records Pete: In February 1999 the Senate defeated both articles of impeachment. Microsoft ® Encarta ® Reference Library 2005. © 1993-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. |
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Lazy Senior wrote:
Peter Wieck wrote: Clinton could not keep it in his pants and got impeached and survived the experience. Peter Wieck Wyncote PA Clinton got impeached??? How did I miss that, you been watching too much Fox News Network (AKA The Republican Channel). Lazy Senior Man Lazy, You have a lot of trouble understanding simple stuff. Clinton got impeached... Yes he did! He was found not guilty, and continued as president. Where exactly were you during the Clinton presidency, Antartica? Just incase you want to read about it: http://www.eagleton.rutgers.edu/e-go...tonimpeach.htm -Chuck |
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Have it your way.... Levees on the Mississippi. Pick your pork.
Peter Wieck Wyncote, PA |
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