You say FT-101, etc...aren't $100 pieces of gear on ebay. Thats too
broad and maybe your perspective is different than mine. As found
Galaxy V are lucky to get $100, as are HW-100. FT-101, Kwood TS-520,
Swan 350-500, Drake TR-3/4 will garner twice that in "last time I fired
it up it worked" condition. I've given away two Galaxy V in as found
condition this year because they couldn't be sold at any price.

Found condition is the key. I'm sorry, but I got into bidding wars at
least 3 or more times trying to get a Yaesu in guaranteed working
condition with recent maintenance.

I'm not clear if you are suggesting building these things from scratch
or taking older xcvrs and refurbing them. If you haven't walked this
talk I suspect you'd find out very quickly that paying $35 for an old
Galaxy and refurbing it at maybe a cost of a dozen hours of labour you
might get $125 on resale on a good day when there are no other buyers
that could do the same thing for their own purpose.

Nope, I am indeed talking scratch.

To do an equivalent Galaxy 5 from scratch for $199 commercial resale?
No way.

Why not?

Well, you have my input. I'll never discourage rolling your own but
trying to make a bizness out of it is a whole nuther can of worms.

Oh, and I so much appreciate that. That is not sarcasm.

The Eternal Squire

wrote:



To do an equivalent Galaxy 5 from scratch for $199 commercial resale?
No way.


Why not?

At this point you are daydreaming. Start pricing the components.
You'll likely exceed $199 before you add in any labour.

-Bill

Maybe not a Galaxy 5 itself, you could be right. Besides, it was a
hybrid rig, not an all- tube rig anyway.

But, what about this lineup for receiver:

1) 3 sets of switchable preselector filter with ganged variable
capacitor with a single dual triode amp, half of which are placed
between each filter.
2) Single dual triode as cascode IF converter, rather than a pentagrid
converter which are hardly made anymore.
3) Single dual triode as differential VFO, glass equivalent of recent
QEX circuit, with oscillator variable capacitor ganged to the
preselector capacitor as part of same set.
4) Single dual triode as pre and post amps to lattice crystal IF
filter.
5) Single dual triode as cascode baseband converter.
6) Single dual triode as differential BFO, similar design to VFO.
7) Push-pull audio power amp... reuse this in transmitter.

Transmitter lineup:

1) Single sweep tube operated class E for CW, modified to class H with
aid of receiver's push pull power amp.
2) Share the preselector for use in postfiltering of the power amp.
3) Use the same differential VFO as the input to the class E amp.

This isn't really SSB: it is more quick and dirty DSB/CW transmitter
with SSB receiver. (If anyone can modify a class E amp for SSB service
I would love to hear about it).

So, this lineup uses a single sweep tube, 6 dual trodes, and a pair of
6L6 equivalents.

Shuguang 807 as sweep tube: $16 retail
Shuguang 6SN7 (VFO) $11 retail
Shuguang 6SN7 (BFO) $11 retail
2 Shuguang 6L6 (Amp/Mod) $25 retail
4 CH-12AX7A $48 retail
-----------------
$111 retail ==
$55 wholesale if I can establish a dealer relationship with supplier.

Tubes: (presumed wholeale) $55
Resistors (NOS wholesale): $10
Caps (NOS wholesale): $10
Power transformer: $5 sheet metal stack
made in LDC
4-gang variable $25 (Soviet make
from EBAY)
Chassis: $20 sheet metal
Planetary gear drive: $15 (cast iron gears
from LDC)
Crystals (NOS wholesale) $5
Rotary Band Switch (NOS EBAY) $10
---------
$140
Labor (20 hours at $1/hour in an LDC) $ 20
---------
$160
Murphy Factor (20%) $ 32
----------
COGS w/labor $192

======================

OK, you are likely right that the wholesale cost is high. But I only
worked this out in 20 minutes using recent surfing, reading, and other
communication. Perhaps with further refinement I can get the cost
down. I added a murphy factor for amortized taxes, freight, and
customs.

BUT: I think I made it with $7 to spare, including labor, so long as I
do not rely on the US for a lot of things.

Maybe $250 would be a more realistic retail price... Not much profit
margin, though, but not much needed for mail order sales if I am only
intending to supplement income rather than support myself.

Thoughts?

The Eternal Squire

wrote:


$140
Labor (20 hours at $1/hour in an LDC) $ 20
---------
$160
Murphy Factor (20%) $ 32
----------
COGS w/labor $192

Where's the chassis, knobs, tuning caps, IF cans, tube sockets, xtal
filters, cabinet, dial, power xfmr, etc? Any radio homebrewer will tell
you that where the cost is. Tubes are incidental costs.

Bzzt, if you can provide labour for a $1 per hour and understimate the
Murphy factor then you have a chance of breaking even...well no, not
really. Using your figure of 20 hours I calculate that you'll clear an
income of $40 per week on 2 rigs, $60 if you work nites, if you do it
all yourself.

If I could build a Galaxy 5 equivalent in 20 hours...never mind...

Okay. Paying shipping for one single returned rig in this scenario will
have you WISHING you hadn't eaten last week's can of cat food for dinner.

Doesn't wash. You couldn't do this for less than $500 per rig (sans
labour and profit)....and thats why there isn't the market that you imagine.

-Bill

OK

Where's the chassis

$20 of Korean sheet metal shaped and drilled by a firm in Africa, see
recent post

knobs

Digikey

tuning caps

4-gang soviet surplus from EBay, see recent post

IF cans

toroids

Tube sockets

PC mount sockets, 50 cents each.

Xtal filter

$1 each, $5 total, see recent post

cabinet

more sheet metal

dial

stenciled plastic, negl cost

power xfrmr

$5 stack of carbon steel made in Africa, see recent post

Using your figure of 20 hours I calculate that you'll clear an
income of $40 per week on 2 rigs, $60 if you work nites, if you do it
all yourself.

No, I'll be using Mexican labor for final assembly

If I could build a Galaxy 5 equivalent in 20 hours...never mind...

No, this is not a Galaxy 5. This is a 21rst century transciever
topology
in glass that may deliver multiband audio/cw contacts at less cost.

Okay. Paying shipping for one single returned rig in this scenario will
have you WISHING you hadn't eaten last week's can of cat food for dinner.

Clearly I would have to reduce mass where I can. I interpret a
boatanchor
as meaning tubes as active units and mechanical tuning with a planetary
drive... I don't intepret that as meaning I have to use 50's-70's era
parts for
anything else or even point to poiint wiring. Maybe I can get the
weight
down to 15 pounds if I use aluminum for chassis and fiberglass or
carbon
composite for case.

You couldn't do this for less than $500 per rig (sans
labour and profit)....

Only I use parts from US and attempt to exactly duplicate a mid-60's
rig. If instead I can outsource nearly everything and never buy
retail,
and if I simply make a FET rig in glass, this might be less.

and thats why there isn't the market that you imagine.

What I have to find out is determine how much someone is willing
to buy a glass rig for that delivers similar functionality as a 60's
rig,
and then determine how many people would buy for that price. At
that point, I have to work backwards to see if I can make parts,
labor, intermediate freight, and customs fees work inside the
interpolated wholesale figure.

So let me ask you... if you had the ability to buy a rig, in glass,
capable of 4 band operation where you could manually tune
and dip the amplifier, that gave you an operating range of 2000
miles on a reference dipole, AND it was built new, HOW MUCH
would you pay for that?

The Eternal Squire

wrote:

Where's the chassis


$20 of Korean sheet metal shaped and drilled by a firm in Africa, see
recent post

You've never done business with Africa and seen the quality of work and
the production delays when the "mail isn't working right".


knobs


Digikey


tuning caps


4-gang soviet surplus from EBay, see recent post


IF cans


toroids


Tube sockets


PC mount sockets, 50 cents each.


Xtal filter


$1 each, $5 total, see recent post

Ask for 400 of all of the above and see how quick those 'surplus'
sources go dark.



Using your figure of 20 hours I calculate that you'll clear an
income of $40 per week on 2 rigs, $60 if you work nites, if you do it
all yourself.


No, I'll be using Mexican labor for final assembly

Not for a buck an hour. Figure 4/hr for Mexican assembly labour but
you'll wind up doing this type of job on unit pricing. Add on about
15-30/hr on the stateside end to QC and align the works.



What I have to find out is determine how much someone is willing
to buy a glass rig for that delivers similar functionality as a 60's
rig,
and then determine how many people would buy for that price. At
that point, I have to work backwards to see if I can make parts,
labor, intermediate freight, and customs fees work inside the
interpolated wholesale figure.

So let me ask you... if you had the ability to buy a rig, in glass,
capable of 4 band operation where you could manually tune
and dip the amplifier, that gave you an operating range of 2000
miles on a reference dipole, AND it was built new, HOW MUCH
would you pay for that?

As a ham, anybody who tried to sell me with a pitch that suggested that
I could talk 2000 miles anytime I wanted to would be met with a red flag
in front of my checkbook. As for pushing the product onto other venues
like missionaries...maybe. There's probably a couple dozen brand names
that have gone down that same pike in the past 20 years and they don't
seem to have survived.

Ok, enough of the nay-saying. Suffice it to say you have no clue about
the costs of production or the market. You're infatuated with making a
tube xcvr for the masses on principle. That, in itself isn't a bad
thing. The results found along your route can ultimately be more
tangible than my opinions and a great resource for the next guy.

I might be interested in a 'Beta' rig for $199, post back when you get
there.

-Bill

Bill ) writes:

Xtal filter


$1 each, $5 total, see recent post

Ask for 400 of all of the above and see how quick those 'surplus'
sources go dark.

And of course, it's all interrelated.

If one doesn't buy a lot of stock to begin with, then they have to scramble
later to get suitable parts, and in the case of the mechanical parts,
that may mean reworking the chassis. Which means if a large stock isn't
bought in advance, then the chassis work can't be done in bulk, because
that might mean the prepunched and drilled chassis have to be scrapped.

And if production has to stop while new sources are discovered, that
may cause significant problems. That's why there's all those second
sources for semiconductors; if a manufacturer can't count on being
able to get those ICs on a continuous basis, they won't use the part.

Michael VE2BVW

It's all right. I just needed a final refutation of details.

Thanks,

The Eternal Squire

wrote in message
ups.com...
Where's the chassis



Squire..

So far this is all mental gymnastics.

Why not do a prototype to prove and
debug the design, run it for several weeks to work out glitches, and
do one or two more test prototypes to finalize the design? This
will give you some idea on labor and material costs, and how much
time is needed to acquire parts... assemble... align and test.. etc.

I think at that point you'd have a better feel for what you are proposing.
One thing to think about: why not also offer a kit version? If you do
a magazine construction article, say in Electric Radio, that would
give you a "free" ad for the kit of materials, and some exposure.

Pete