[John T]

Business as usual.

I really need to win the lottery so I can walk away.

JT
--

[Patty Winter]

In article ,
John T wrote:
Business as usual.

I'll be listening! I gotta hear this...


I really need to win the lottery so I can walk away.

:-) What's it like there today?


Patty

[John T]

* Patty Winter wrote, On 5/23/2011 7:31 PM:
:-) What's it like there today?

It was very much business-as-usual until around 5:00 p.m. when the
press (invited) began to show up. Once again, visitors other than
media were banned from the building, but members of the press more
than made up for their absence. There were more reporters and cameras
than I have ever seen in one place before. All the stations were
there, including, I think, one of the Chinese newscasts.

Of course, as David Kaye mentioned in another thread, there remains
October 21st, so Camping seems to think that he can just pick up the
rhythm and march to it at least until then. We'll see.

Naturally, Camping blamed God for the failure, saying that Christ had
actually returned, but spiritually instead of physically. That sounds
quite familiar if you've ever studied the history of doomsday cults
and their failed predictions. In the face of contradicting reality,
they just say that it's spiritual, and you wouldn't understand unless
you take up their view of life and eternity. Done.

One thing the press has gotten consistently wrong is the amount of
donations. The $100+ million figure they throw around is money derived
primarily from the sales of Channel 64 and the cash-plus trade of
106.9 FM for 610 AM. Whereas donation income has remained relatively
steady, what has been different recently is that the flow of many
small donations was replaced by a trickle of fewer and bigger donations.

For the moment jobs seem to be relatively safe, but that could change
depending on whether income continues or not. There are some stations
that could be sold for a better-than-tidy sum and could fund
operations for several years. Most likely that will happen, but that
doesn't mean there won't be a housecleaning as we experienced after
September 1994. Some of the "ghosts" (people who don't really have
productive jobs) could be forced to go haunt someplace else.

JT
--

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[David Kaye]

"John T" wrote

Naturally, Camping blamed God for the failure, [....]

He seemed to be blaming himself for his inability to interpret the Bible.
What I've never understood is why God has to be so mysterious. My kind of
God would just lay it out plain and simple like.

saying that Christ had actually returned, but spiritually instead of
physically.

Yeah, that was a stretch.

One thing the press has gotten consistently wrong is the amount of
donations. The $100+ million figure they throw around is money derived
primarily from the sales of Channel 64 and the cash-plus trade of 106.9 FM
for 610 AM.

I was actually surprised that he actually mentioned this on the program. He
seemed to me, anyhow, to be remarkably candid in all this.

So, if he doesn't collect a salary from Family Radio, as evidenced by his
non-profit filing for 2009, where does he get his personal income, from his
retirement as a civil engineer for the city of Oakland?

For the moment jobs seem to be relatively safe, but that could change
depending on whether income continues or not.

Back when I knew a production guy over there he asked me if I might want to
apply for a job. This was when Family was about half the size it is today.
I said no because I wasn't a believer. The guy (I forget his name now) told
me that I didn't have to be a believer, just be able to do a good job.

There are some stations that could be sold for a better-than-tidy sum and
could fund operations for several years.

I should think there are enough commercially viable stations that they could
actually set up an endowment for the whole operation.

[Patty Winter]

In article ,
John T wrote:

It was very much business-as-usual until around 5:00 p.m. when the
press (invited) began to show up.

Did any of the employees look abashed when they came to work?


Once again, visitors other than
media were banned from the building, but members of the press more
than made up for their absence. There were more reporters and cameras
than I have ever seen in one place before. All the stations were
there, including, I think, one of the Chinese newscasts.

One of the people asking questions did sound Chinese.


Of course, as David Kaye mentioned in another thread, there remains
October 21st, so Camping seems to think that he can just pick up the
rhythm and march to it at least until then. We'll see.

Yes, I was thinking when I heard that today that at least you have a
job for the next five months! And that will give you some time to look
for something else--if you don't win the lottery in the interim. :-)

Hey, this has been more fun than the usual discussions of license
transfers and misleading commercials. :-)


Patty

[spamtrap1888]

On May 23, 10:23*pm, John T wrote:

Of course, as David Kaye mentioned in another thread, there remains
October 21st, so Camping seems to think that he can just pick up the
rhythm and march to it at least until then. We'll see.

What struck me from the news coverage was Camping's shrugging off any
responsibility for people who changed their economic position in
reliance on his prediction. "That's between them and God," he said.


Naturally, Camping blamed God for the failure, saying that Christ had
actually returned, but spiritually instead of physically. That sounds
quite familiar if you've ever studied the history of doomsday cults
and their failed predictions. In the face of contradicting reality,
they just say that it's spiritual, and you wouldn't understand unless
you take up their view of life and eternity. Done.

I remember reading a notable goalpost shift in a Martin Gardner book.
Here's the story from the Ontario (CA) Consultants on Religious
Tolerance:

"1914 was one of the more important estimates of the start of the war
of Armageddon by the Jehovah's Witnesses (Watchtower Bible and Tract
Society). They based their prophecy of 1914 from prophecy in the book
of Daniel, Chapter 4. The writings referred to "seven times". The WTS
interpreted each "time" as equal to 360 days, giving a total of 2520
days. This was further interpreted as representing 2520 years,
measured from the starting date of 607 BCE. This gave 1914 as the
target date. When 1914 passed, they changed their prediction; 1914
became the year that Jesus invisibly began his rule. "

Like Camping, the JW's were not deterred by their first failed
prediction: "1914, 1915, 1918, 1920, 1925, 1941, 1975 and 1994, etc.
were other dates that the Watchtower Society (WTS) or its members
predicted. "

A list of these and other failed EotW predictions is available he

http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl2.htm

[David Kaye]

"spamtrap1888" wrote

What struck me from the news coverage was Camping's shrugging off any
responsibility for people who changed their economic position in
reliance on his prediction. "That's between them and God," he said.

I have no problem with that. KGO runs an ad for back yard paving stones and
urges "the next 10 callers" to buy them. Nobody here would chastise KGO or
its advertiser for telling people to go out and buy the paving stones.

So, why should people get their undies in a knot when Harold Camping DOES
NOT tell people to drain their bank accounts? I don't know how many of you
have listened to Harold Camping over the years, but I have, not much but
just once in awhile to keep in touch with that he's doing. I have never
ever heard him tell people to drain their bank accounts, to go on lavish
vacations, to run up credit card debt, or for that matter even to give to
Family Radio. Now, what they do in direct mail may be something different,
but on the air the most they've done is offer free pamphlets and Bible
tracts.

[John T]

* David Kaye wrote, On 5/24/2011 8:28 AM:
"John wrote

Naturally, Camping blamed God for the failure, [....]

He seemed to be blaming himself for his inability to interpret the Bible.


If the 1994 pattern holds, this will last a week or so. By then he
will have fully developed a convoluted zig-zag around various Bible
verses that (according to him) prove him conclusively right. Remember,
to Harold Camping, interpreting the Bible is not understanding what is
in the text itself, it is digging out by our own hard work what God
has hidden from us. That's why many of his teachings, especially in
the last year or so, are directly contradictory to the written text.
His biblical spelunking has left him blind to the obvious.


So, if he doesn't collect a salary from Family Radio, as evidenced by his
non-profit filing for 2009, where does he get his personal income, from his
retirement as a civil engineer for the city of Oakland?


I don't recall that he worked for the city. He owned a construction
company, and he owns property all over the Bay Area. He built a fair
number of shopping centers around such as Town & Country Village
(Sunnyvale), Pelton Center in San Leandro, South Shore in Alameda, and
he still owns the land beneath the Alameda post office. (All of these
last I heard- things might have changed). In decades past he
bankrolled Family Radio through some financial crises. Harold Camping,
even now, cannot be accused of financial greed for its own sake.


Back when I knew a production guy over there he asked me if I might want to
apply for a job. This was when Family was about half the size it is today.
I said no because I wasn't a believer. The guy (I forget his name now) told
me that I didn't have to be a believer, just be able to do a good job.


Harold Camping is, in many ways, very easy to work for. Do your job,
don't undermine him, don't contradict him in public. You can screw up
mightily and he will let it go if you simply own up to your errors.
There are several levels on which he is a very likable old man, and
there is a great deal of flexibility in our employment. I have been
places and done things that *never* would have happened in the real
world. I've been on full salary throughout cancer treatments and
multiple surgeries during the last two years. Name another business
where that would be true. (Of course, another business might have had
real health insurance. *That's* a sore spot!)


I should think there are enough commercially viable stations that they could
actually set up an endowment for the whole operation.


Unfortunately, he and his board either don't understand commercial
operation and what it could (have) do(ne), or there has been a
rejection of the notion altogether. When we owned channel 64 it *could
have been* a cash cow for the organization, but Jesus was coming in
1994 and there wasn't time to do business *as* business. And then he
was offered money for the station that would finance the present
campaign. As it was, we were never more than a "break even" operation.

In the end no commercial operation can be had because everything done
throughout the organization is not just *for* Harold Camping, but it
is *about* Harold Camping. We couldn't broker religious time on 610
because there would be *other* voices, and, to borrow from Higlander,
"There can be only one." Likewise, a secular format would be a
complete waste of precious time to disseminate Harold's voice.

Do you see why things are the way they are?

JT
--

[John T]

* Patty Winter wrote, On 5/24/2011 11:04 AM:

Did any of the employees look abashed when they came to work?


In 1994 the aftermath was definitely different than yesterday. Then,
people slunk (is that a word?) around for weeks. They were totally
deflated. This time . . . many arrived, thumbs hooked in suspenders,
smug and arrogant as ever. They had already apparently heard that the
goal was moved back to October.

JT
--