Rich Wood wrote:

On 17 Jul 2003 06:16:23 GMT, (WBRW) wrote:

Also, the digital data sidebands -- that now extend all
the way from 915 through 945 kHz on the dial -- will now cause a
constant "hash" or loud static type of noise to nearby channels such
as 910, 920, 940, and 950 kHz, as well as a constant hiss in the
background of 930 WPAT's own signal.

With WOR I was unable to tell what the IBOC signal sounded like
because their signal was so strong I could receive it on my teeth.
WPAT is far weaker and I hear the same thing you hear from 910 to 950.
On my receivers it sounds like square waves and buzzing on either
side. Hash lower and buzzing upper. Beyond 960 all is quiet so it
isn't dimmer or power line noise.

Rich

The FCC has an official modulation type for dimmer noise, A6 or something. As
a format it manages about a 2.3 share if you don't pack it with too many
commercials.
--
Ron Hardin


On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

WBRW wrote:

For better or worse, the IBOC/"HD Radio" digital AM system is
currently only approved for daytime use. After sunset I will have to
check if WPAT resumes broadcasting a full-bandwidth AM Stereo signal
or not. The official sunset time is 8:30 PM, at which point WPAT's
digital signal has to be shut off, per FCC rules.


It's 10:30 PM and WPAT is not in stereo, and still sounds bad. I live
in Oradell NJ,
exit 165 off the GSP.

snipped for a smaller response
"WBRW" wrote in message
...
New Jersey's longest-running AM Stereo station, 930 WPAT in Paterson,
is now the first in the state -- and the second in the New York City
area -- to begin testing iBiquity's IBOC/"HD Radio" digital AM system.

Also, the digital data sidebands -- that now extend all
the way from 915 through 945 kHz on the dial -- will now cause a
constant "hash" or loud static type of noise to nearby channels such
as 910, 920, 940, and 950 kHz, as well as a constant hiss in the
background of 930 WPAT's own signal.

At my location in Somerset County, NJ, I hear WPAT's digital signal
causing a constant hiss in the background of 910 WRKL and 950 WPEN, as
well a loud "hash" on 920 kHz that severely degrades my reception of
otherwise perfectly clear WPHY, to the point where WPHY's signal is
only marginally intelligible. The "hash" on the other side of WPAT's
signal also prevents any chance of being able to receive 940 WADV.

IMHO this confirms what many of us believed from the beginning; IBOC is
incompatible with analog AM. When HD stations start stepping on local AM
second-adjacents, the time has come to re-think IBOC.

P.S.: read again
"as well as a constant hiss in the background of 930 WPAT's own signal."

There is no better proof that AM-IBOC is incompatible with regular AM
radios.

With WOR I was unable to tell what the IBOC signal sounded like
because their signal was so strong I could receive it on my teeth.
WPAT is far weaker and I hear the same thing you hear from 910 to 950.
On my receivers it sounds like square waves and buzzing on either
side. Hash lower and buzzing upper. Beyond 960 all is quiet so it
isn't dimmer or power line noise.

If you can't get enough of WPAT's noise-generating IBOC signal, try
1480 WZRC. As of 2:00 PM on Thursday afternoon, the IBOC was turned
on at that NYC station as well. Listeners of 1500 WGHT -- whose
transmitter is only 17 miles away from WZRC's -- will definitely not
be pleased when they tune in 1500 AM and hear a constant "HISSSSSSSS"
in the background. Yes, IBOC is currently daytime-only -- but so is
WGHT itself (to accomodate WTOP at night), so there's no escape!

Furthermore, 930 WPAT is a hodge-podge of time-brokered ethnic
programming, and 1480 WZRC is all-Chinese. Exactly what is the point
of broadcasting these zero-ratings, zero-advertiser, zero-listener
formats in IBOC digital?? And as for 710 WOR, most of its 85-year-old
listeners probably don't even know what "digital" means. Regardless
of its technical flaws, IBOC might have a chance if they put it on
something like Radio Disney (1560 WQEW), as an attempt to attract more
younger listeners to the AM band. Otherwise, it's just being wasted
on the type of listeners who haven't bought a new radio since 1974.

Otherwise, it's just being wasted
on the type of listeners who haven't bought a new radio since 1974.


Gee, isn't 1974 the official date when they stopped making real AM radios
and jammed everything into one 50 cent IC ?

"WBRW" wrote in message
...


Furthermore, 930 WPAT is a hodge-podge of time-brokered ethnic
programming, and 1480 WZRC is all-Chinese. Exactly what is the point
of broadcasting these zero-ratings, zero-advertiser, zero-listener
formats in IBOC digital?? And as for 710 WOR, most of its 85-year-old
listeners probably don't even know what "digital" means.

Forgot to add: the average listenerer age for all stations combined in NY is
41; the average age for WZRC is 38; for WPAT it is 46.

Regardless
of its technical flaws, IBOC might have a chance if they put it on
something like Radio Disney (1560 WQEW), as an attempt to attract more
younger listeners to the AM band. Otherwise, it's just being wasted
on the type of listeners who haven't bought a new radio since 1974.

"WBRW" wrote in message
...


Furthermore, 930 WPAT is a hodge-podge of time-brokered ethnic
programming, and 1480 WZRC is all-Chinese.

Furthermore, WPAT is highly profitable, and the programs serve specialized
communities that may have no other source for such programming.

Under this "hodge podge" standard, every TV station in America qualifies;
different programs for different folks at different times of the day. It is
just block programming. It was also radio's model during its first 30 years.

Exactly what is the point
of broadcasting these zero-ratings, zero-advertiser, zero-listener
formats in IBOC digital??

You are saying Chinese speakers are less likely to be interested in improved
audio quality than non-Chinese. Or are you saying they are less deserving?
Less worth?

BTW, most of the brokered shows on these stations are chock full of local
commercials for community stores, busniesses and services. Such formats
don't show in ratings mostly because Arbityron has no Asian interviewers and
does not do ethnic weighting for Asians. The staitons have listeners,
advertisers and high billings.

And as for 710 WOR, most of its 85-year-old
listeners probably don't even know what "digital" means.

You are off by 26 years. WOR's average age is 59.

WABC's average age is 54 and WCBS-AM's is 52.

I happen to be somewhere in that range and digital is very interesting to
me. And to many contemporaries I know.

Regardless
of its technical flaws, IBOC might have a chance if they put it on
something like Radio Disney (1560 WQEW), as an attempt to attract more
younger listeners to the AM band.

Again, it appears you are saiying that Asina listeners are of no value, or
are undiscriminating in taste or unsophisticated. Which is it?

Otherwise, it's just being wasted
on the type of listeners who haven't bought a new radio since 1974.

I bought my last one, oh, 3 weeks ago. It is a combined digital recorder,
digital playback and AM FM radio with a computer interface for storing MP3's
recorded off the air. A scaled version is being readied for marketing to
Rush listeners who want to record and listen later; the average age of them
is about 57. So much for your theories about technology. You are talking
about the generation that grew up with the first transistor radios, avidly
took to the cassette medium and rapidly gravitated to VHS, CD's, and DVDs.

Furthermore, 930 WPAT is a hodge-podge of time-brokered ethnic
programming, and 1480 WZRC is all-Chinese.

Don't forget that the New York Metropolitan area often has more people
of a particular ethnic group than their naive counties have. The WPATs
of the world are the only place where they can find programming that
speaks to them. They lost their major outlet (WEVD) to make room for
the third all sports station in the city.

New York has a larger Chinese population than most cities have people.
I believe WZRC is Korean.

It was a tremendous improvement in the cultural life of the city. The
only sports figure I've seen who makes any sense is Yogi Berra. "When
you see a fork in the road, take it." How can you go wrong with that?

If you were to see a man on the street patting his male companion on
the butt, what would you think? If you saw one of them bent over with
the other with his hands between his companion's legs, what would you
think? There are no women around. Yet we spend billions to watch
allegedly heterosexual men do the same thing on TV.

Strange.

Rich

Don't forget that the New York Metropolitan area often has more people
of a particular ethnic group than their naive counties have.

That must be why we have TWO stations with primarily Russian-language
programming (620 WSNR & 1380 WKDM), and if you count a simulcast, TWO
stations with all-Polish programming (910 WRKL & 1580 WLIM). But yet,
the nation's #1 music format, Country, does not exist on the air
within 50 miles of NYC. Yes, yes, yes, people say that there simply
aren't that many country music fans within the City itself, and
they're correct -- but any decent NYC-area signal will cover plenty of
the surrounding suburban areas were there *are* many country fans.
"Y-107" proved this, with its lousy-ass signal getting better ratings
-- even within the NYC market itself -- than what "Barbie Radio" is
getting on a full-power heritage NYC FM station.

They lost their major outlet (WEVD) to make room for the third all sports
station in the city.

Well, *second* all-sports station, since 620 WSNR is now only
"Sporting Radio News" when it feels like it. (Strange, but true -- a
"flagship" station that doesn't carry its own network's programming
most of the time.)

If you were to see a man on the street patting his male companion on
the butt, what would you think? If you saw one of them bent over with
the other with his hands between his companion's legs, what would you
think? There are no women around. Yet we spend billions to watch
allegedly heterosexual men do the same thing on TV.

Umm... not that I disagree with you, but what does this have to do
with radio?

However, since you got me thinking, could this be the reason why
soccer has never been popular in America... because it's not
homoerotic enough? :-)

Strange.

....but true.

(WBRW) wrote in message ...
Exactly what is the point of broadcasting these zero-ratings,
zero-advertiser, zero-listener formats in IBOC digital??

You miss the point. The point is that, once the stations goes
digital, they can convert to music formats and be competative with FM
in terms of sound quality -- and (with good programming and promotion)
ultimately market share.

Since it will take several years for there to be a substantial
installed base of IBOC radio receivers, which stations would you
propose converting first? The ones that already have a large
listenership, or the secondary players? Remember, digital is an
equalizer -- you don't need to have the most powerful transmitter in
the market in order to act like you do.

What's pointless is converting the major stations that current have
talk formats, with Dr. Laura, Rush, etc. The digital artifacts are
most noticable with talk, anyway. What digital broadcasting does is
provide a scenario whereby the smaller AM stations that have fallen
into disuse can find new life (and from their owners' perspective,
gain value).

- Jonathan