Rich Wood wrote:

On 17 Jul 2003 06:16:23 GMT, (WBRW) wrote:

Also, the digital data sidebands -- that now extend all
the way from 915 through 945 kHz on the dial -- will now cause a
constant "hash" or loud static type of noise to nearby channels such
as 910, 920, 940, and 950 kHz, as well as a constant hiss in the
background of 930 WPAT's own signal.

With WOR I was unable to tell what the IBOC signal sounded like
because their signal was so strong I could receive it on my teeth.
WPAT is far weaker and I hear the same thing you hear from 910 to 950.
On my receivers it sounds like square waves and buzzing on either
side. Hash lower and buzzing upper. Beyond 960 all is quiet so it
isn't dimmer or power line noise.

Rich

The FCC has an official modulation type for dimmer noise, A6 or something. As
a format it manages about a 2.3 share if you don't pack it with too many
commercials.
--
Ron Hardin


On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

WBRW wrote:

For better or worse, the IBOC/"HD Radio" digital AM system is
currently only approved for daytime use. After sunset I will have to
check if WPAT resumes broadcasting a full-bandwidth AM Stereo signal
or not. The official sunset time is 8:30 PM, at which point WPAT's
digital signal has to be shut off, per FCC rules.


It's 10:30 PM and WPAT is not in stereo, and still sounds bad. I live
in Oradell NJ,
exit 165 off the GSP.

snipped for a smaller response
"WBRW" wrote in message
...
New Jersey's longest-running AM Stereo station, 930 WPAT in Paterson,
is now the first in the state -- and the second in the New York City
area -- to begin testing iBiquity's IBOC/"HD Radio" digital AM system.

Also, the digital data sidebands -- that now extend all
the way from 915 through 945 kHz on the dial -- will now cause a
constant "hash" or loud static type of noise to nearby channels such
as 910, 920, 940, and 950 kHz, as well as a constant hiss in the
background of 930 WPAT's own signal.

At my location in Somerset County, NJ, I hear WPAT's digital signal
causing a constant hiss in the background of 910 WRKL and 950 WPEN, as
well a loud "hash" on 920 kHz that severely degrades my reception of
otherwise perfectly clear WPHY, to the point where WPHY's signal is
only marginally intelligible. The "hash" on the other side of WPAT's
signal also prevents any chance of being able to receive 940 WADV.

IMHO this confirms what many of us believed from the beginning; IBOC is
incompatible with analog AM. When HD stations start stepping on local AM
second-adjacents, the time has come to re-think IBOC.

P.S.: read again
"as well as a constant hiss in the background of 930 WPAT's own signal."

There is no better proof that AM-IBOC is incompatible with regular AM
radios.

With WOR I was unable to tell what the IBOC signal sounded like
because their signal was so strong I could receive it on my teeth.
WPAT is far weaker and I hear the same thing you hear from 910 to 950.
On my receivers it sounds like square waves and buzzing on either
side. Hash lower and buzzing upper. Beyond 960 all is quiet so it
isn't dimmer or power line noise.

If you can't get enough of WPAT's noise-generating IBOC signal, try
1480 WZRC. As of 2:00 PM on Thursday afternoon, the IBOC was turned
on at that NYC station as well. Listeners of 1500 WGHT -- whose
transmitter is only 17 miles away from WZRC's -- will definitely not
be pleased when they tune in 1500 AM and hear a constant "HISSSSSSSS"
in the background. Yes, IBOC is currently daytime-only -- but so is
WGHT itself (to accomodate WTOP at night), so there's no escape!

Furthermore, 930 WPAT is a hodge-podge of time-brokered ethnic
programming, and 1480 WZRC is all-Chinese. Exactly what is the point
of broadcasting these zero-ratings, zero-advertiser, zero-listener
formats in IBOC digital?? And as for 710 WOR, most of its 85-year-old
listeners probably don't even know what "digital" means. Regardless
of its technical flaws, IBOC might have a chance if they put it on
something like Radio Disney (1560 WQEW), as an attempt to attract more
younger listeners to the AM band. Otherwise, it's just being wasted
on the type of listeners who haven't bought a new radio since 1974.

Otherwise, it's just being wasted
on the type of listeners who haven't bought a new radio since 1974.


Gee, isn't 1974 the official date when they stopped making real AM radios
and jammed everything into one 50 cent IC ?

Gegroet,

Op Sat, 19 Jul 2003 19:33:02 +0000, schreef Charles Hobbs:
There is no better proof that AM-IBOC is incompatible with regular AM
radios.

How would DRM (as tested on the shortwave bands) fare?

Well, there's an very interested website concerning this in New Zealand:
http://www.owdjim.gen.nz/chris/radio/DRM/DRM.html

Scroll down to the reception-results to "2003/06/02 03:50". There's an
audio-sample of a DRM signal and a AM signal.

But do note:
- The DRM signal was a signal from the BBC from the transmittor-site of
RCI of shackville; aimed at North America.
- The person who did the recording lives in New Zealand. (which is pretty
far of for a broadcast from Canada into North America).

- The AM broadcast came from Turkey; althou I don't know where it was
aimed. (apparently, according the scedule of the VOT; it was in Turkish;
so it could be directed anywhere).


So the question is of the person would -otherwize, if this would have been
two AM broadcasts, been able to receive anything anyway.


It's a bit difficult to compair local MW broadcasting with long-distance
SW.


Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
--
Kristoff Bonne, Bredene
[nl] [fr] [en] [de]

"WBRW" wrote in message
...


Furthermore, 930 WPAT is a hodge-podge of time-brokered ethnic
programming, and 1480 WZRC is all-Chinese. Exactly what is the point
of broadcasting these zero-ratings, zero-advertiser, zero-listener
formats in IBOC digital?? And as for 710 WOR, most of its 85-year-old
listeners probably don't even know what "digital" means.

Forgot to add: the average listenerer age for all stations combined in NY is
41; the average age for WZRC is 38; for WPAT it is 46.

Regardless
of its technical flaws, IBOC might have a chance if they put it on
something like Radio Disney (1560 WQEW), as an attempt to attract more
younger listeners to the AM band. Otherwise, it's just being wasted
on the type of listeners who haven't bought a new radio since 1974.

"Charles Hobbs" wrote in message
...
Drewdawg wrote:
snipped for a smaller response
"WBRW" wrote in message
...

New Jersey's longest-running AM Stereo station, 930 WPAT in Paterson,
is now the first in the state -- and the second in the New York City
area -- to begin testing iBiquity's IBOC/"HD Radio" digital AM system.

Also, the digital data sidebands -- that now extend all
the way from 915 through 945 kHz on the dial -- will now cause a
constant "hash" or loud static type of noise to nearby channels such
as 910, 920, 940, and 950 kHz, as well as a constant hiss in the
background of 930 WPAT's own signal.

At my location in Somerset County, NJ, I hear WPAT's digital signal
causing a constant hiss in the background of 910 WRKL and 950 WPEN, as
well a loud "hash" on 920 kHz that severely degrades my reception of
otherwise perfectly clear WPHY, to the point where WPHY's signal is
only marginally intelligible. The "hash" on the other side of WPAT's
signal also prevents any chance of being able to receive 940 WADV.


IMHO this confirms what many of us believed from the beginning; IBOC is
incompatible with analog AM. When HD stations start stepping on local
AM
second-adjacents, the time has come to re-think IBOC.

P.S.: read again
"as well as a constant hiss in the background of 930 WPAT's own signal."

There is no better proof that AM-IBOC is incompatible with regular AM
radios.

How would DRM (as tested on the shortwave bands) fare?

Glad you asked :-) as I've proposed this on alt.radio.digital as IBAC-DRM
(in-band adjacent channel). If WOR were to stop IBOC and switch to IBAC-DRM
at 720 I believe only that channel (720) would be affected, 700 would be
untouched, 690 & 730 would be completely unaffected and, my guess would be,
710 would continue on at 10kHz without any hash on existing AM radios.

If today's situation is acceptable they could go dual-mode and do another
DRM at 700, giving them the fidelity heard on www.drm.org on their 40kbit
samples. Again, IMHO, same impact on 700 & 720, none on 690 & 730 and
normal AM on 710. However, I'm not an engineer and I could be wrong. Sorry
if I am but please point out where I am. I'm curious as to how this would
be worse than IBOC.

"WBRW" wrote in message
...


Furthermore, 930 WPAT is a hodge-podge of time-brokered ethnic
programming, and 1480 WZRC is all-Chinese.

Furthermore, WPAT is highly profitable, and the programs serve specialized
communities that may have no other source for such programming.

Under this "hodge podge" standard, every TV station in America qualifies;
different programs for different folks at different times of the day. It is
just block programming. It was also radio's model during its first 30 years.

Exactly what is the point
of broadcasting these zero-ratings, zero-advertiser, zero-listener
formats in IBOC digital??

You are saying Chinese speakers are less likely to be interested in improved
audio quality than non-Chinese. Or are you saying they are less deserving?
Less worth?

BTW, most of the brokered shows on these stations are chock full of local
commercials for community stores, busniesses and services. Such formats
don't show in ratings mostly because Arbityron has no Asian interviewers and
does not do ethnic weighting for Asians. The staitons have listeners,
advertisers and high billings.

And as for 710 WOR, most of its 85-year-old
listeners probably don't even know what "digital" means.

You are off by 26 years. WOR's average age is 59.

WABC's average age is 54 and WCBS-AM's is 52.

I happen to be somewhere in that range and digital is very interesting to
me. And to many contemporaries I know.

Regardless
of its technical flaws, IBOC might have a chance if they put it on
something like Radio Disney (1560 WQEW), as an attempt to attract more
younger listeners to the AM band.

Again, it appears you are saiying that Asina listeners are of no value, or
are undiscriminating in taste or unsophisticated. Which is it?

Otherwise, it's just being wasted
on the type of listeners who haven't bought a new radio since 1974.

I bought my last one, oh, 3 weeks ago. It is a combined digital recorder,
digital playback and AM FM radio with a computer interface for storing MP3's
recorded off the air. A scaled version is being readied for marketing to
Rush listeners who want to record and listen later; the average age of them
is about 57. So much for your theories about technology. You are talking
about the generation that grew up with the first transistor radios, avidly
took to the cassette medium and rapidly gravitated to VHS, CD's, and DVDs.

i cannot believe that it is allowed (fcc rules?) to disturb the regular
reception of other AM stations in the locality! why do they let this happen?

"Drewdawg" wrote in message ...

"Charles Hobbs" wrote in message
...
Drewdawg wrote:
snipped for a smaller response
"WBRW" wrote in message
...

New Jersey's longest-running AM Stereo station, 930 WPAT in Paterson,
is now the first in the state -- and the second in the New York City
area -- to begin testing iBiquity's IBOC/"HD Radio" digital AM system.

Also, the digital data sidebands -- that now extend all
the way from 915 through 945 kHz on the dial -- will now cause a
constant "hash" or loud static type of noise to nearby channels such
as 910, 920, 940, and 950 kHz, as well as a constant hiss in the
background of 930 WPAT's own signal.

At my location in Somerset County, NJ, I hear WPAT's digital signal
causing a constant hiss in the background of 910 WRKL and 950 WPEN, as
well a loud "hash" on 920 kHz that severely degrades my reception of
otherwise perfectly clear WPHY, to the point where WPHY's signal is
only marginally intelligible. The "hash" on the other side of WPAT's
signal also prevents any chance of being able to receive 940 WADV.


IMHO this confirms what many of us believed from the beginning; IBOC
is
incompatible with analog AM. When HD stations start stepping on local
AM
second-adjacents, the time has come to re-think IBOC.

P.S.: read again
"as well as a constant hiss in the background of 930 WPAT's own
signal."

There is no better proof that AM-IBOC is incompatible with regular AM
radios.

How would DRM (as tested on the shortwave bands) fare?

Glad you asked :-) as I've proposed this on alt.radio.digital as IBAC-DRM
(in-band adjacent channel). If WOR were to stop IBOC and switch to
IBAC-DRM
at 720 I believe only that channel (720) would be affected, 700 would be
untouched, 690 & 730 would be completely unaffected and, my guess would
be,
710 would continue on at 10kHz without any hash on existing AM radios.

If today's situation is acceptable they could go dual-mode and do another
DRM at 700, giving them the fidelity heard on www.drm.org on their 40kbit
samples. Again, IMHO, same impact on 700 & 720, none on 690 & 730 and
normal AM on 710. However, I'm not an engineer and I could be wrong.
Sorry
if I am but please point out where I am. I'm curious as to how this would
be worse than IBOC.





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