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  #11   Report Post  
Old July 27th 03, 08:14 PM
WBRW
 
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Are there that many daytimers left?

In the USA, AM daytime-only stations are "Class D". This used to be a
strictly daytime-only classification, but quite a few years ago many
of these stations were reallocated with "flea power" nighttime
signals, as low as 1 WATT. Today, "Class D" AM stations are limited
to a maximum of 50,000 watts daytime, but only a maximum of 250 watts
at night.

I don't know what the lowest DAYTIME power level for North American AM
stations is; despite it traditionally being 250 watts, there are a
number of stations using less than that during the daytime; I've heard
of one 170-watt daytimer, and right in my own backyard, 1170 WWTR in
Bridgewater, NJ is licensed for 243 watts, non-directional,
daytime-only. In that case, it's a long story -- the station
originated as WBRW, a 500-watt directional daytimer which went dark in
1990. Their license was subsequently bought out with the intent of
getting it back on the air under new ownership. Unfortunately, the
original WBRW transmitter site was vandalized beyond repair and the
towers were taken down, so in order to help simplify the construction
of a new site, they were granted a Construction Permit to change to a
one-tower non-directional signal, which necessitated the power
reduction to 243 watts. So, in effect, New Jersey got a "new" AM
daytimer in 1997 -- even though the FCC stopped accepting applications
for new daytimers a decade earlier!


  #12   Report Post  
Old July 27th 03, 08:14 PM
Mike Terry
 
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In Europe some AM stations have 1,000 kw, more on longwave.

Mike



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Old July 27th 03, 08:14 PM
WBRW
 
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There are a handful of 2,000,000-watt stations in the Middle East and I
believe at least one in Europe. I know of nothing more powerful.


My outdated edition of the World Radio/TV Handbook lists Longwave
stations in Sweden (171 kHz) and Russia (261 kHz) that claimed to be
2,500,000 watts, as well as a number of 2,000,000-watt Longwave
stations in the Middle East, Asia, and Europe.

Also, near St. Petersburg, Russia, there's a station on 1494 kHz that
transmits 1,200,000 watts (with a transmitter capable of 2 MW) through
a *26-tower* directional array with a gain of 25 dB, aimed at
Scandinavia. The array is more than 1-1/2 miles from end to end.

BTW, right in my town, there's a 5,000,000-watt UHF TV station, but
that's the ERP due to antenna gain, not actual transmitter power.

  #14   Report Post  
Old July 27th 03, 08:14 PM
Mark Roberts
 
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David Eduardo had written:

| "Mark Roberts" wrote:
|
| Does nighttime coverage really matter any more? How much radio
| listening is there at night (after PM drive)? And, more to
| the point, is that an audience worth selling to?
|
| In LA, 53.3% of all persons 12+ listen to radio in the 7 to Midnight time
| period.

But what does the hour-by-hour breakdown look like? And are other
markets comparable? With a time period that broad, and a criterion
that easy to meet, it could just as easily be that the figure is
skewed from leftover PM drive listening (e.g. people with
hour+-long commutes).

| Keep in mind that in deep winter, sunset may happen in the middle of
| afternoon drive and sunrise late in morning drive. That means a daytimer in
| a middle latitude may operate from 6:30 AM to 4:45 PM.

At about 38 or 39 degrees in the center of any time zone, the minimum
time period for daytime operation would be 7.15 am to 4.45 pm.
Chicago's typically is 7.15 am to 4.15 pm. The comparable time
period in Houston (29 or 30 degrees) was 6.45 or 7 am
(I forget which) to 5.30 pm. The PSRA helps AM drive for these
stations somewhat. It probably isn't as big a factor as it was 30
years ago when PSRAs were first granted on a widescale basis and is
probably most meaningful for small-town community-style stations.

| So night operation is critical.
|
| I wonder if a good, solid cost/benefit analysis has really been
| done for stations with limited coverage that are still staying on 24/7.
| I suppose the costs these days are marginally low enough that a
| small amount of revenue would make it worthwhile.
|
| Since overall ratings performance and pricing are based on 6AM-Mid, Mon-Sun,
| you don't see many daytimes doing well anywhere.

I thought the figures for daytimers were, at least at one time,
weighted to account for hours actually on the air. If not, it seems
to be a serious skewing of the figures, not that I've ever felt
that radio surveying methodologies were particularly good as far as
statistical validity is concerned -- skew upon skew upon skew.


--
Mark Roberts
Oakland, California
(it will forward)

  #15   Report Post  
Old July 27th 03, 08:14 PM
Sid Schweiger
 
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Are there still clear channel stations in the U.S? I thought they dropped
that years ago.

As the term "clear channel" was originally defined (meaning, only one station
on the frequency across North America), yes...that was dropped decades ago.
IIRC, WLW was the last one.



  #16   Report Post  
Old July 27th 03, 08:14 PM
Mark Roberts
 
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Charles Hobbs had written:

| Are there that many daytimers left? The only one I know if in LA (or
| anywhere
| else for that matter) is KBRT-740 on Avalon (KCBS stomps on it as soon as it
| gets just a little bit twilighty...)
|
| All of the other local daytime-only stations (KIEV-870, whoever's on 900
| and 1220 over in Pomona....were there any others) are full timers now
| (much to the consternation of the DXers out there....)

All the AMs in the Bay Area are full-time except for two,
KDYA/1190 and KTIM/1510. And even KTIM has a CP for DA-2 with COL Piedmont.
That's one of the benefits (I guess) of living in an area where the
nighttime signal can be shot out over the ocean.

("Bay Area" is defined here as 100 km radius from the reference coordinates
for Oakland, minus stations east of Solano, Contra Costa, Alameda,
or Santa Clara counties.)

Even back in the 1980s, when I was in Houston, I recall that, of
the AM stations, only KIKK and KCOH were daytimers.

| P.S. Wasn't the expanded band designed to give these daytimers a place to
| go be fulltimers without cluttering up the rest of the band?

No, it was more designed to resolve situations where stations had
very critical nighttime patterns to other stations, with
interference often resulting due to natural variations in
propagation. Most of the stations that got x-band allocations were
DA-N stations.

--
Mark Roberts
Oakland, California
(it will forward)

  #17   Report Post  
Old July 27th 03, 11:52 PM
Mark Roberts
 
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Doug Smith W9WI had written:

| My understanding is that WBZ's DA actually protects the *east* - they're
| trying to avoid wasting power over the ocean where there's nobody (at
| least nobody with a diary) listening. The Wyoming station (KTWO Casper)
| protects WBZ, but not vice-versa.

As others here have said, that is correct. A visit to the site in
Hull makes it clear that there was some pretty shrewd engineering
behind that move.

As a data point, in Chicago, the very minute WNVR/1030 goes off
the air at sunset, WBZ comes booming in. I think WNVR may have a
license that allows it to sign on at Boston local sunrise rather
than Chicago, but I don't remember for sure now.

Farther to the south, though, in Missouri, WBZ isn't much of a
catch for nighttime listening while, sometimes, thanks to the time
difference, KTWO can be heard in the early evening hours. In the
Kansas City area, 1030 was also horked up by the station in Blue
Springs which has practically no nighttime signal north of the
Missouri River...one of the two areas in KC with the fastest
population growth. (But who listens to AM at night?)

--
Mark Roberts
Oakland, California
(it will forward)

  #18   Report Post  
Old July 28th 03, 11:24 PM
David Eduardo
 
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"Blue Cat" wrote in message
...
Are there that many daytimers left? The only one I know if in LA (or
anywhere
else for that matter) is KBRT-740 on Avalon (KCBS stomps on it as soon

as
it
gets just a little bit twilighty...)

All of the other local daytime-only stations (KIEV-870, whoever's on 900
and 1220 over in Pomona....were there any others) are full timers now
(much to the consternation of the DXers out there....)


1220 in Canyon Country is a daytimer, as is 1050 in Frazier Park, 850 in
Thousand Oaks and 1050 in Big Bear.

LA is not typical, though, as it is on the coast where more AMs can go
directional at night and ship power over the Pacific Ocean without having to
protect anyone... a luxury not afforded to stations in Kansas City, for
example.

There is a "de facto" daytimer in the Miami, FL area. This station is on
1550, with a day power of 10000 watts, and a permitted night power in the
500's. I have never heard the station at night, even when I was in Miami.
Curious history about this station, a couple years ago it was on 1560,
broadcasting both day and night.


They were operating illegally and had to move back. In the 70's and 80's,
the 250 watt signal at night from towers in the waste disposal facility on
72nd south of the Airport afforded excellent coverage of the Cuban
population of Miami, then concentrate mostly along the Trail.

I would say that most of the existing daytimers left are on clear

channels.

As mentioned before, about 1800 AMs have power of 0-99 watts at night. That
is about 40% of all AMs in the US. 900 are pure daytimers, and the rest are
these with low night power, below 100 watts.


  #19   Report Post  
Old July 29th 03, 03:58 AM
Peter H.
 
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1220 in Canyon Country is a daytimer, as is 1050 in Frazier Park, 850 in
Thousand Oaks and 1050 in Big Bear.


The two 1220s in L.A. county are Class Bs, operating full time.

Canyon Counry's KIIS (Citicasters) is 1 kW days, 0.5 kW nights, DA-2 is really
1/0.5 DA-1 as the day and night parameters are the same.

Pomona's KWKW (Lotus) is 0.25 kW-U DA-2 is also really DA-1 as the day and
night parameters are the same.

The 850 just outside L.A. county in Thousand Oaks has been a Class B for more
than two decades, IIRC. Started out as a daytimer, however, with three towers
and 0.5 kW. Added a fourth tower to add night operation at 0.25 kW.

Saul (Sol) Levine's ex-1050 in Frasier Park was always a daytimer. Apparently
intended to get Sol yet another X-band allocation on-the-cheap (KFOX/1650,
which see), this station is actually sited to serve Bakersfield (surprise), and
has 10 kW with a 3-tower DA near the I-5/US-99 split and 0.01 kW from a single
tower near Oildale, adjacent to Bakersfield. IIRC, Frasier Park is in L.A.
County, or is only a few hundred yards outside thereof.

[ Moderator's note: Citicasters? Ummm... that'd be Clear Channel, would it
not? As I recall, Citicasters was borged by Jacor which was in turn borged
by Clear Channel... ]





  #20   Report Post  
Old July 29th 03, 03:14 PM
Blue Cat
 
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"Geoff Brozny" wrote in message
...

I saw in the FCC's database a station in cuba that was at 500kw, this link
will show you all the stations in the western hemisphere.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/amq?state...0&fre2=1700&fa
cid=&list=0&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&NS=N&dlon2= &mlon2=&slon2=&EW=W&size=1
0

geoff

I believe that the Cuban 500 kw station is on 710 kHz. This is part of
Castro's "radio war", to keep Miami's Spanish speaking Radio Mambi (710
also) from reaching the island.






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