While NBC did sell WKYC-AM about 1970, the FM station, which was sold
at the same time, IIRC, did not become WMJI until 1981. Between
WKYC-FM and WMJI was WWWM-FM "M105" in the early '70s. WWWM was
operated by the same sports promoter who purchased WKYC-AM from NBC.
The M in the station's new callsign was the first letter of the new
owner's last name. WWWM-FM ran automated easy-listening music from
1972 until 1975 or so (during which they used an identification
announcement "We've changed our name, but not our tune; we're WWWM,
Cleveland"), then it went to live DJs and rock in '75. When the
station was sold the second time, the callsign was changed to WMJI,
and the format, under yet another new owner, was changed to oldies, as
it is today (although the station has been accused by another AM
oldies station here in Lake County, where I live, of not being a true
"oldies" station by virtue of playing only music from the 1960s and
'70s and having a so-called "oldies" library of only 300 recordings;
this goes against WMJI's on-air announcement that it has "Cleveland's
largest record library". The other station says it plays "every song
you grew up with" as well.

I listen to WMJI quite a bit--I have and did for years, even when
they were WKYC-FM and WWWM--and know for a fact they do have an
extensive oldies library going back to the '50s. The AM station also
does not cover the entire Greater Cleveland listening area by virtue
of a 500-watt signal which is knocked down to 42 watts, directional,
at night, whereas WMJI can be heard loud and clear, in stereo, from
Ashtabula to the east to possibly beyond Cleveland's west side to the
west, and to Akron to the south). I live about 35 miles northeast of
Cleveland and can hear WMJI extremely well on every FM radio in my
apartment, so the new owners may have improved the station's signal
somewhat since its NBC days.

Jeff, WB8NHV (mailto: )
Fairport Harbor, Ohio

Jeff Strieble wrote:
While NBC did sell WKYC-AM about 1970, the FM station, which was sold
at the same time, IIRC, did not become WMJI until 1981. Between
WKYC-FM and WMJI was WWWM-FM "M105" in the early '70s. WWWM was
operated by the same sports promoter who purchased WKYC-AM from NBC.
The M in the station's new callsign was the first letter of the new
owner's last name.

Would that have been Leonard Maltz of Malrite Communications? He also
owned several other properties in Cleveland including WMMS and (later)
WOIO-TV, and some radio stations in other cities (including, notably, Z-100
in New York).

Was a real shame when Malrite got out of the business. In particular, WMMS
was sold to Nationwide, which later sold out to Jacor, which later sold out
to Clear Channel, and has never been the same since.

WWWM-FM ran automated easy-listening music from
1972 until 1975 or so (during which they used an identification
announcement "We've changed our name, but not our tune; we're WWWM,
Cleveland"), then it went to live DJs and rock in '75. When the
station was sold the second time, the callsign was changed to WMJI,
and the format, under yet another new owner, was changed to oldies, as
it is today (although the station has been accused by another AM
oldies station here in Lake County

WELW in Eastlake?

where I live, of not being a true
"oldies" station by virtue of playing only music from the 1960s and
'70s

Well, yeah, that's because a lot of what WMJI otherwise would be playing
was on Mix 106.5 when they were playing "the best mix of the 80's, 90's and
70's". 'course, I can't see why some of the stuff on Mix couldn't also be
played on Majic. But that's just me.

I listen to WMJI quite a bit--I have and did for years, even when
they were WKYC-FM and WWWM--and know for a fact they do have an
extensive oldies library going back to the '50s.

yeahbut... when you're only playing the thirty or forty most popular songs in
your library, doesn't really matter, does it?

west, and to Akron to the south). I live about 35 miles northeast of
Cleveland and can hear WMJI extremely well on every FM radio in my
apartment, so the new owners may have improved the station's signal
somewhat since its NBC days.

May have? Probably did. Jacor and Clear Channel probably didn't have much
trouble justifying investing in WMJI, which has been #1 in the ratings in
Northeast Ohio for most of the last 15-20 years.

So Jeff, how's Fairport? I used to be your neighbor - lived in Mentor on
the Lake until last July. (Lived in Painesville for a while, too.)

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On 4 Mar 2004 16:16:46 GMT, (Jeff Strieble)
wrote:

The AM station also
does not cover the entire Greater Cleveland listening area by virtue
of a 500-watt signal which is knocked down to 42 watts, directional,
at night, whereas WMJI can be heard loud and clear, in stereo, from
Ashtabula to the east to possibly beyond Cleveland's west side to the
west, and to Akron to the south). I live about 35 miles northeast of
Cleveland and can hear WMJI extremely well on every FM radio in my
apartment, so the new owners may have improved the station's signal
somewhat since its NBC days.

Take a look at this map:

http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin...atus=L&hours=U

Again, as usual, Radio-Locator maps are for "entertainment purposes
only", but this is a reasonable approximation of WMJI's coverage area.
To the south...I'm in Akron, and WMJI is a local signal. Last time I
drove down 77, I think I started losing them a few miles south of
Canton, and they were shaky/non-listenable by the time I hit Dover/New
Philadelphia.

WMJI's tower, like most Cleveland FMs, is in Parma. It's a class B.

Mike

Steven J Sobol wrote in message ...
Jeff Strieble wrote:
While NBC did sell WKYC-AM about 1970, the FM station, which was sold
at the same time, IIRC, did not become WMJI until 1981. Between
WKYC-FM and WMJI was WWWM-FM "M105" in the early '70s. WWWM was
operated by the same sports promoter who purchased WKYC-AM from NBC.
The M in the station's new callsign was the first letter of the new
owner's last name.

Would that have been Leonard Maltz of Malrite Communications? He also
owned several other properties in Cleveland including WMMS and (later)
WOIO-TV, and some radio stations in other cities (including, notably, Z-100
in New York).

Was a real shame when Malrite got out of the business. In particular, WMMS
was sold to Nationwide, which later sold out to Jacor, which later sold out
to Clear Channel, and has never been the same since.

WWWM-FM ran automated easy-listening music from
1972 until 1975 or so (during which they used an identification
announcement "We've changed our name, but not our tune; we're WWWM,
Cleveland"), then it went to live DJs and rock in '75. When the
station was sold the second time, the callsign was changed to WMJI,
and the format, under yet another new owner, was changed to oldies, as
it is today (although the station has been accused by another AM
oldies station here in Lake County

WELW in Eastlake?

Yup, that's it. WELW ran (and may still be running) spots for a
while--in fact, what I am about to mention also appears on their web
site, welw.com--in which they made a point of the fact that WMJI plays
only "300 'safe' tracks", while WELW plays every (?) song which used
to be "top 40" on radio from the '50s through the '80s.
where I live, of not being a true
"oldies" station by virtue of playing only music from the 1960s and
'70s

Well, yeah, that's because a lot of what WMJI otherwise would be playing
was on Mix 106.5 when they were playing "the best mix of the 80's, 90's and
70's". 'course, I can't see why some of the stuff on Mix couldn't also be
played on Majic. But that's just me.

I listen to WMJI quite a bit--I have and did for years, even when
they were WKYC-FM and WWWM--and know for a fact they do have an
extensive oldies library going back to the '50s.

yeahbut... when you're only playing the thirty or forty most popular songs in
your library, doesn't really matter, does it?
WMJI does run specials on weekends in which they concentrate on playing songs with a certain theme, which changes every week; some of those records, I'm sure, come from the station's archives and are from the '50s.

west, and to Akron to the south). I live about 35 miles northeast of
Cleveland and can hear WMJI extremely well on every FM radio in my
apartment, so the new owners may have improved the station's signal
somewhat since its NBC days.

May have? Probably did. Jacor and Clear Channel probably didn't have much
trouble justifying investing in WMJI, which has been #1 in the ratings in
Northeast Ohio for most of the last 15-20 years.

I don't know if WMJI has a better signal now or not. I moved to
Fairport Harbor over four years ago from Wickliffe; I had to get a
special amplified FM antenna for my stereo just to hear some of the
Cleveland stations noise-free, and even at that I cannot hear certain
stations, such as Mix 106.5, very well. (TV reception here in my
apartment is so bad I must have cable to get decent signals. I do not
get channel 3 at all on an antenna, and the other two VHF stations are
fair to downright poor. Ironically, however, the UHF stations, all but
WVIZ [PBS] channel 25, are watchable with good to excellent color
pictures. I like having cable, however, because it gives me better
reception, more stations to watch, and the fact that I have two PBS
stations on the cable here (WVIZ, of course, in Cleveland, plus WEAO
49 in Akron) which allow me to watch certain shows an hour apart (like
the NewsHour, Charlie Rose, et al.)

Are Cleveland's FM stations' signal patterns meant to cover the area
east of Mentor, including Painesville, Fairport and environs? I would
think, noting that none of the Cleveland stations mention Perry,
Painesville, etc. very often in their commercials, they probably think
this area is a never-never land, shut off from greater Cleveland by 35
miles. I grant you, the distance is a factor, but I still wonder why
central and eastern Lake County aren't mentioned often in the
commercials broadcast by Cleveland stations.

So Jeff, how's Fairport? I used to be your neighbor - lived in Mentor on
the Lake until last July. (Lived in Painesville for a while, too.)

Aside from the radio/TV reception problems (I am also a ham radio
operator and have problems getting my radios to work, as I must use
indoor antennas), I like Fairport Harbor a lot. When I was a kid
growing up in Wickliffe, I used to dream of the day when I'd live in a
small town like this; now that I'm grown up(I'm almost 48 years old),
I am here, and I like it. Took me my entire first year here just to
get settled in my apartment, and another year or two to get used to
living in a small town. However, it was all worth it. As I said, I
like living here now and plan to stay here quite a while.

Good luck and very kind regards,

Jeff Strieble, WB8NHV (mailto: )
Fairport Harbor, Ohio

Jeff Strieble wrote:

WELW in Eastlake?

Yup, that's it. WELW ran (and may still be running) spots for a
while

Wow. I just went to the site and it says that Ravenna Miceli and Scott Howitt
are now working down there...

I don't know if WMJI has a better signal now or not. I moved to
Fairport Harbor over four years ago from Wickliffe; I had to get a
special amplified FM antenna for my stereo just to hear some of the
Cleveland stations noise-free, and even at that I cannot hear certain
stations, such as Mix 106.5, very well. (TV reception here in my
apartment is so bad I must have cable to get decent signals. I do not
get channel 3 at all on an antenna, and the other two VHF stations are
fair to downright poor. Ironically, however, the UHF stations, all but
WVIZ [PBS] channel 25, are watchable with good to excellent color
pictures. I like having cable, however, because it gives me better
reception, more stations to watch, and the fact that I have two PBS
stations on the cable here (WVIZ, of course, in Cleveland, plus WEAO
49 in Akron) which allow me to watch certain shows an hour apart (like
the NewsHour, Charlie Rose, et al.)

MMMMM.... Charlie Rose.

Well, first, as Mike Ward correctly pointed out, most TV and radio
transmitters are in Parma. The big exception was WKNR 1220 which was next to
the studio in Broadview Heights and pointed *directly* into downtown Cleveland
so you would have had problems receiving it in Fairport anyhow. (I'm not sure
what they're doing now under Salem's ownership, but I'm guessing that they
are still using the same, extremely directional, pattern.)

Oh yeah, and Z107.9 which can be heard at Allegheny College in Meadville, PA.
Their transmitter is in Geauga County (at the intersection of Sperry Road
and Kinsman Road).

I think the *other* issue is the terrain in Fairport. It's extremely hilly
there. Do you live off Second Street or High Street? Or do you live further
out?

Are Cleveland's FM stations' signal patterns meant to cover the area
east of Mentor, including Painesville, Fairport and environs? I would
think, noting that none of the Cleveland stations mention Perry,
Painesville, etc. very often in their commercials, they probably think
this area is a never-never land, shut off from greater Cleveland by 35
miles. I grant you, the distance is a factor, but I still wonder why
central and eastern Lake County aren't mentioned often in the
commercials broadcast by Cleveland stations.

Because Parma is the best place to put transmitters, and therefore anything
east of Mentor is a rimshot for the typical Cleveland station.

Fear not, young trooper! You do have a choice. Clear Channel operates a bunch
of stations in Ashtabula; you have Country 104.7 in Geneva and WATJ in Chardon
and WBKC in Painesville, all locally owned... between those stations you
actually have a decent selection of Stuff (adult contemporary, country, talk,
classic rock, whatever weird hybrid format Star 97.1 runs...)

I used to listen to 102 Zoo a lot, primarily because I enjoy listening to their
morning team. They seem to focus more on Lake County than any of the Cleveland
stations do.

I hope at least some of this information is useful to you.

PS. If it makes you feel any better, I live 90 miles northeast of the closest
media market (Los Angeles). The High Desert has exactly one TV station, KHIZ
TV 64. All of the LA stations have repeaters up here, but given how hilly the
terrain is (we're in a hilly area and surrounded on two sides by mountains),
I wouldn't try to do without cable either. The area is, however, big enough
to sustain a decent choice of radio stations, some from "down the hill" and
some here. I was actually quite shocked to find out that Infinity owns stations
in this rural area. Clear Channel I can understand, but Infinity....? (no need
to respond to that last comment, it's been responded to previously

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Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) /
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"someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
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On 19 Mar 2004 16:29:40 GMT, Steven J Sobol
wrote:

Well, first, as Mike Ward correctly pointed out, most TV and radio
transmitters are in Parma. The big exception was WKNR 1220 which was next to
the studio in Broadview Heights and pointed *directly* into downtown Cleveland
so you would have had problems receiving it in Fairport anyhow. (I'm not sure
what they're doing now under Salem's ownership, but I'm guessing that they
are still using the same, extremely directional, pattern.)

As far as I know, WHK/1220 is still on the same pattern. It's what
causes the station to become a rumor near Medina at night.

Another new "big exception" in the Cleveland market is WAKS/96.5 "Kiss
FM", the Akron market move-in once known as WKDD (the latter, of
course, now at 98.1 Canton). They nudged the WAKS tower site up just
north of the Cuyahoga Co./Summit Co. border in Brecksville, just off
Rt. 21 near the Turnpike. The old WKDD/96.5 already had fairly decent
coverage in the Cleveland market, but this move was similar to CC
moving the new WKDD/98.1 facility up closer to Akron.

As far as the OP goes - it looks like 96.5 is probably shaky where he
is, too, at least according to the usual "for entertainment only" maps
at Radio-Locator.com:

http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin...atus=L&hours=U

He probably should still be able to hear "Kiss FM" with a decent
antenna. (And he should plug in a few Cleveland stations into that
Web site's search engine to get an idea of what he's dealing with...)

Oh, on a semi-related note, the CC Akron/Canton stations are moving
into a new facility in Jackson Twp. (North Canton) area...just off the
I-77/Portage St. exit north of Belden Village Mall, and just south of
the Akron/Canton Airport. WKDD/98.1 made the move Friday, and
WHLO/640 and WTOU/1350 are supposed to join them at the end of the
month.

Fear not, young trooper! You do have a choice. Clear Channel operates a bunch
of stations in Ashtabula; you have Country 104.7 in Geneva and WATJ in Chardon
and WBKC in Painesville, all locally owned... between those stations you
actually have a decent selection of Stuff (adult contemporary, country, talk,
classic rock, whatever weird hybrid format Star 97.1 runs...)

Is WBKC/1460 still running a WCLV/104.9 Lorain simulcast after morning
drive (and outside of Indians games)?

I used to listen to 102 Zoo a lot, primarily because I enjoy listening to their
morning team. They seem to focus more on Lake County than any of the Cleveland
stations do.

And at times, almost more than they focus on Ashtabula and environs.
That's probably because there's a lot more money in Lake County!

Mike

Mike Ward wrote:

Well, first, as Mike Ward correctly pointed out, most TV and radio
transmitters are in Parma. The big exception was WKNR 1220 which was next to
the studio in Broadview Heights and pointed *directly* into downtown Cleveland
so you would have had problems receiving it in Fairport anyhow. (I'm not sure
what they're doing now under Salem's ownership, but I'm guessing that they
are still using the same, extremely directional, pattern.)

As far as I know, WHK/1220 is still on the same pattern. It's what
causes the station to become a rumor near Medina at night.

Duh. WHK. I've even been on-air at WHK since the big flip (as a guest), and
I still forgot. (Not only that, I have friends at Salem... I should know
better...)

Another new "big exception" in the Cleveland market is WAKS/96.5 "Kiss
FM", the Akron market move-in once known as WKDD (the latter, of
course, now at 98.1 Canton). They nudged the WAKS tower site up just
north of the Cuyahoga Co./Summit Co. border in Brecksville, just off
Rt. 21 near the Turnpike. The old WKDD/96.5 already had fairly decent
coverage in the Cleveland market, but this move was similar to CC
moving the new WKDD/98.1 facility up closer to Akron.

96.5 had decent coverage in Mentor and Painesville back when it was WKDD, but
since moving I do believe the coverage has gone from decent to solid...

As far as the OP goes - it looks like 96.5 is probably shaky where he
is, too, at least according to the usual "for entertainment only" maps
at Radio-Locator.com:

Nahhh, I can confirm from living in the area (not 20 minutes away from him)
that Kiss has a good signal in northwest and north central Lake. Keep in mind,
however, that I haven't lived in Ohio since the end of last June.

Is WBKC/1460 still running a WCLV/104.9 Lorain simulcast after morning
drive (and outside of Indians games)?

As far as I know. Listen to 104.9 to find out - at the top of the hour
they'll ID WCLV *and* WBKC.

And at times, almost more than they focus on Ashtabula and environs.
That's probably because there's a lot more money in Lake County!

Ehhh. Most of their loyal sponsors are in Ashtabula and vicinity. The only
sponsor that runs spots with any frequency on 102 Zoo out of Lake is the
Classic Auto Group, which is all over the map - Wickliffe, Willoughby,
Mentor and Painesville -- and, of course, they have a store in Madison, the
last town on US 20 before you hit the Ashtabula County line.

It's interesting to hear their Cleveland ads which feature lavish production
values and Founder/President Jim Brown's booming voice, and then hear their
Ashtabula ads that.... don't. (The Ashtabula ads sound fine; they just aren't
as fancy.)

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"someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
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On 22 Mar 2004 01:33:31 GMT, Steven J Sobol
wrote:

Duh. WHK. I've even been on-air at WHK since the big flip (as a guest), and
I still forgot. (Not only that, I have friends at Salem... I should know
better...)

And I once interviewed for an off-air job at WKNR/1220 before it
launched as a sports station. My big problem? My source neglected to
indicate that WKNR would be a sports station...meaning all my talk
about my news/talk radio experience was wasted.

Oh, not to mention the odd fact that the WKNR management at the time
(in the Cablevision days) was insistent that everyone who worked there
actually lived in the Cleveland market, in specific, Cuyahoga County.
One of the interview questions was "would you move to the Cleveland
area?", despite the fact I was roughly a half-hour drive from there
from the Akron area. Heck, I was closer to them than someone in, say,
Lakewood, and certainly well within 1220's strong signal.

It didn't make any sense to me...for one, since it was signing on as a
sports station, the Akron/Canton area is clearly within the market
area for the major pro sports teams in Cleveland.

My response - no sports radio experience aside - may have been what
doomed me...I basically said "huh, what do you mean?"

96.5 had decent coverage in Mentor and Painesville back when it was WKDD, but
since moving I do believe the coverage has gone from decent to solid...

It looks like they may have been able to squeeze a bit more out of
96.5 with the move. 98.1 couldn't do much, since it was kinda clamped
in, with the move to Hartville...their pattern pre/post Hartville was
almost identical. Their aim was to get closer to Akron and provide
less of a "picket fence" signal. 96.5 seems to have actually picked
up some real estate with the move to Brecksville.

Ehhh. Most of their loyal sponsors are in Ashtabula and vicinity. The only
sponsor that runs spots with any frequency on 102 Zoo out of Lake is the
Classic Auto Group, which is all over the map - Wickliffe, Willoughby,
Mentor and Painesville -- and, of course, they have a store in Madison, the
last town on US 20 before you hit the Ashtabula County line.

Maybe that's it...every time I tuned into 102 Zoo, I heard ads for the
Classic Auto Group. They ran with a LOT of frequency the last time I
was up there.

Mike

The big exception was WKNR 1220 which was next to
the studio in Broadview Heights and pointed *directly*
into downtown Cleveland so you would have had problems
receiving it in Fairport anyhow. (I'm not sure what they're
doing now under Salem's ownership, but I'm guessing that
they are still using the same, extremely directional,
pattern.)

As far as I know, WHK/1220 is still on the same pattern. It's what causes the
station to become a rumor near Medina at night.


WKNR was a legacy rock-'n'-roll call from Detroit/East Lansing (with WKFR ...
both then owned by Knorr Foods, hence W-KNR).

The 1220 pattern was cast into concrete in 1938 with NARBA, finally implemented
in 1941 as WGAR.

Carl Smith designed the array, and it has remained substantially the same
(although the "six wire" line, the phasor and the center tower have all been
replaced).

It's not *that* directional.

The entire U.S.-Mexican border is protected, as is the primary service area of
first adjacent-channel WCAU.

Implemented by Smith using only five towers, the signal is intended to serve
Cleveland and Akron, plus Canton, all of Ohio.

About 250 kW towards Cleveland. About one-half that towards Akron.

Grandfathered by NARBA as DA-1, even though DA-1 is no longer required under
"Rio" rules.

A better pattern is possible, using more towers, but protection of Mexico, DF,
and Philadelphia remain as absolute constraints. Plus, now, the many 1220s
which are Class Bs, operating with very low, but conforming power.

At best, one "throw-away" mimima could be eliminated, that minima being
essentially entirely over Lake Erie, and a new pattern might require an
entirely new array concept, and most probably six to eight towers.

Given Salem's parsimoniousness, I seriously doubt that a megabuck,
give-or-take, would be spent on this station to give it a more desirable
pattern.

On 22 Mar 2004 16:18:41 GMT, inch (Peter H.) wrote
( WKNR/1220 pattern):

Implemented by Smith using only five towers, the signal is intended to serve
Cleveland and Akron, plus Canton, all of Ohio.

About 250 kW towards Cleveland. About one-half that towards Akron.

The biggest problem here - the Cleveland metro area has grown towards
the southwest, into parts of Medina County that are mostly in the null
of 1220's pattern.

This, presumably, is due to the protection of the Mexican operations
you note in your original message.

Mike