On 16 May 2004 16:44:01 GMT, Tom Betz wrote:

The "lies" have been all over the trade press.

FUD, spread by those with an interest in AA's failure.

That doesn't make sense. Why would a trade magazine have any interest
in seeing Air America fail? With all the consolidation they welcome as
many new advertisers as they can find. I know the publishers of nearly
ever trade magazine. None I've talked to want to see them fail. What
you seem to be mistaking for hope for failure is accurate reporting on
the actions of the network.

I have no interest in seeing them fail. I'm simply commenting on what
I see as incompetence.

Randi Rhodes allegely suggested George Bush be taken out in a boat
and shot.

Did you hear that program, Rich? I heard it. Rhodes was comparing W to
Fredo Corleone. You may recall that, in the Godfather, it was Fredo's
brother who killed him.

She never advocated anything.

Whatever. It still was seen by advertisers as controversial, according
to my ad industry sources. It appears the spots were not supposed to
air on the network, anyway. Not being network people they didn't
consider the fact that all spots aren't intended for all markets. If a
New York area dealers are having a promotion it puts dealers in other
no-promotion markets in a tight spot to hear abou6t great deals that
aren't mean for them.

It doesn't matter if she actually advocated anything. It's the
perception of advocacy. Most of my NYC friends who heard it considered
it to be a call for an assassination.

Funny how GM (for the most widely-cited example) says otherwise, if one asks
them. They say they were prompted to pull their ads by the fact of the
change in format (they had bought WLIB to reach the Caribbean market), not by
the content of the new format.

Have you spoken to GM or their agency? At least in New York it's
always been understood that controversial programming was off limits
for these advertisers.

Funny how Ford immediately started advertising THEIR certified used cars on
WLIB as soon as GM stopped advertising theirs...

I was under the impression that advertising is placed by the Tri-State
Ford Dealers Association. Each company has different policies.
Remember when Snapple was pulled from Limbaugh when it was bought by
Quaker? Limbaugh practically made the product what it is.

I think the archive their shows on the net.

Rich, I used to think you were so well-informed. Now, I begin to see
otherwise.

AA maintains no archives.

Hmm. The publicity I saw indicated that their site was getting a lot
of hits and shows were archived. Perhaps they meant the fan site. It
still means the shows are available to the general public, in archived
form, for a period of time.

My link is directly to the stream and doesn't access the site.

My basic complaint is the inaccurate hype that inplies stations are
carrying the entire Air America lineup. WJNO, West Palm, is on that
list. They don't specify that WJNO is carrying only one show. They
lead the reader to believe it's all there. It isn't.

After the loss of Los Angeles and Chicago, I believe WLIB is the only
station carrying the fulltime 6a-11p schedule.

Rich

Quoth Rich Wood in :

Have you spoken to GM or their agency?

Here's the boilerplate with which GM is responding to queries:

Thank you for contacting the General Motors Customer Assistance Center. We
appreciate your comments and opinions regarding advertising for General
Motors on WLIB 1190-AM.

General Motors learned the week of May 10th, 2004 that radio advertising time
that GM bought on WLIB 1190-AM, previously an affiliate of American Urban
Radio Networks, continued to run without GM's knowledge or authorization
after WLIB changed its affiliation to Air America. GM originally bought this
advertising time when WLIB's format was Caribbean-based music, targeted to an
African-American audience, which was part of GM's ongoing effort to reach
this important group of consumers. With the change to a new, untested format,
our advertising on WLIB would no longer reach the same consumers we were
originally targeting, and we have opted not to continue advertising on WLIB
at this time. We are sorry if this decision has offended you in any way and
we hope you understand our position.

If you should need to contact us in the future, simply reply to this message
or call our General Motors Customer Assistance Center at 1-800-222-1020.
Customer Relationship Managers are available Monday through Friday from 8:00
a.m. to 11:00 p.m., Eastern Time. Please reference service request number 1-
217075972.

Again, thank you for contacting General Motors.


Carol Talley
Customer Relationship Manager
General Motors Customer Assistance Center

[ end boilerplate ]

If there's any content reason for the termination of the ads, GM isn't
admitting it.


--
"I am afeard there are few die well that die in a battle; for how can they
charitably dispose of anything when blood is their argument? Now, if these
men do not die well, it will be a black matter for the King that led them
to it; who to disobey were against all proportion of subjection." - W.S.

On 18 May 2004 02:45:22 GMT, Tom Betz wrote:


If there's any content reason for the termination of the ads, GM isn't
admitting it.

I've been in the network business for a long time. The explanation is
legitimate. However, GM would not place advertising on Air America
even if the numbers were astounding. They don't do controversy.

The real bottom line is that GM didn't buy Air America yet their spots
ran there without their permission. The agency should have cancelled
the order because of a format change. Perfectly legitimate.

Many agencies are buying minority stations in New York because the
stations have made it clear it's discriminatory not to buy them when
their numbers exceed white targeted stations. Even though they still
don't get the rates they're due, things are improving because of
legitimate pressure from highly rated minority stations.

I don't know why you're tapdancing around a comment that clearly
suggested the assassination of a member of the Bush family. I'm not a
fan of the family but I don't wish death on any of them. To suggest it
is damned irresponsible radio.

Rich

Rich Wood wrote:

Whatever. It still was seen by advertisers as controversial, according
to my ad industry sources.

Just out of curiosity...how many of those advertisers had a problem with
being on Rush Limbaugh's program when he compared what is happening in
Abu Ghraib (sp?) with harmless frat-boy hazing?

"Tom Desmond" wrote in message
...
Rich Wood wrote:

Whatever. It still was seen by advertisers as controversial, according
to my ad industry sources.

Just out of curiosity...how many of those advertisers had a problem with
being on Rush Limbaugh's program when he compared what is happening in
Abu Ghraib (sp?) with harmless frat-boy hazing?

Most of those advertisers have "no controversy" or "no talk" dictates when
they want to be assured of a more neutral context for their campaigns. It
applies to rush or Savage as well as Franken and Rhodes.

On 18 May 2004 15:05:13 GMT, Tom Desmond wrote:

Rich Wood wrote:

Whatever. It still was seen by advertisers as controversial, according
to my ad industry sources.

Just out of curiosity...how many of those advertisers had a problem with
being on Rush Limbaugh's program when he compared what is happening in
Abu Ghraib (sp?) with harmless frat-boy hazing?

Make a list of Limbaugh's advertisers. How many mainstream advertisers
are there? Conservative Digest? Limbaugh has been on the don't buy
list for years.

If Laura Schlessinger lost advertisers because of a gay bashing
comment I suspect those same advertisers would drop Limbaugh if they
hadn't already rejected running spots in his show.

Rich

"Rich Wood" wrote in message
...

Make a list of Limbaugh's advertisers. How many mainstream advertisers
are there? Conservative Digest? Limbaugh has been on the don't buy
list for years.

If Laura Schlessinger lost advertisers because of a gay bashing
comment I suspect those same advertisers would drop Limbaugh if they
hadn't already rejected running spots in his show.


I've been following this thread with interest.

Was wondering how Imus manages to retain so many mainstream national
advertisers given the tone & content of his show ? Rich (or anyone else),
can you please comment on this ? Seems to be an exception to the rule, or
perhaps I'm misinterpreting something.

Imus may be a raving lunatic, but he's not an ideological raving lunatic.

-Steve



Was wondering how Imus manages to retain so many mainstream national
advertisers given the tone & content of his show ? Rich (or anyone else),
can you please comment on this ? Seems to be an exception to the rule, or
perhaps I'm misinterpreting something.