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#1
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"RP Jones" wrote in message .. .
I don't know I wasn't stupid enough to even think about calling GTE. Actually "now that I remember" I had called Tek to enquire about a 465 B faceplate, this guy totally "lost his wig" before I even got to speak about owning a 2232. $^% 465 !! jokingly told me "THIS ISN'T SANFORD AND SON" I have since sold the 2232 and baught 465B and a little NLS battery operated (NLS are VERY very nice people, they sent me a manual, alignment/service procedure and schematic free!! ) I also have a 545 on a cart to I use in the basement (winter) people love looking at it -RP "private" wrote in message ... Did they actually pull off that deal with GTE for service. I was there training some of those ****ers. RP Jones wrote: Could it be they don't want to do anymore service, perhaps it cheaper just to replace those new off seas plastic cheap ones one under warrantee. I called them about a Tek 2232 and someone on the other end got all ****ed off, said call GTE for service ? "Frank Gilliland" wrote in message ... Tektronix is trying to manipulate the oscilloscope market. Today I learned from my local dealership that they are required by contract to destroy every scope which is traded in for a new Tektronix scope, regardless of age or condition. So if you decide to trade in that old scope for a Tektronix, know ahead of time that it is NOT going to end up in the hands of a ham, or of some kid learning and experimenting in electronics on a tight budget like I was thir... er, twenty years ago. No, Tektronix needs to raise their profits by destroying every used scope they can get their greedy little hands on, regardless of who feels the pinch! -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- isn't it true that the older stuff is built like a battleship and isn't as proprietary and can be repaired with user obtainable parts? I always heard tek for scopes and hp for analyzers. Any thoughts on that? |
#2
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In (rec.radio.amateur.homebrew), gw wrote:
isn't it true that the older stuff is built like a battleship and isn't as proprietary and can be repaired with user obtainable parts? I always heard tek for scopes and hp for analyzers. Any thoughts on that? My experience is that HP scopes are OK-to-great, while Tek scopes are excellent-to-superb. Similarly, HP generators and analyzers are excellent-to-superb, while OK-to-great. There are other manufacturers that make excellent-to-superb hardware, such as Fluke. -- Mike Andrews Tired old sysadmin |
#3
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With out doubt, most new hardware looks like its built to be thrown away
and crushed. "Built in absolesance" Its a dam shame ! Id agree on Tek for scopes and HP for analyzers, if you look on Ebay HP "as is" scopes with problems must out number the Tek's 10-1. (Many developed push button/switchpad related problems) "gw" wrote in message isn't it true that the older stuff is built like a battleship and isn't as proprietary and can be repaired with user obtainable parts? I always heard tek for scopes and hp for analyzers. Any thoughts on that? |
#4
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The saddest problems I have found with the HP gear is purely their own
fault. When they made the horizontal timing knobs for their 80's vintage scopes, they made them out of plastic, and carved large slots in the space between the outer part you turn with your fingers and the inner part that turns the knob. This left very little plastic to take the torque of turning the knob. Once they break there is no easy way of repairing them. The other big problem is their use of delrin gears with aluminum hubs just about everywhere. And after 15 years, they are all broken. The HP8640B is built like a tank, but everyone I have ever had came with several gears that had split due to shrinkage. -Chuck RP Jones wrote: With out doubt, most new hardware looks like its built to be thrown away and crushed. "Built in absolesance" Its a dam shame ! Id agree on Tek for scopes and HP for analyzers, if you look on Ebay HP "as is" scopes with problems must out number the Tek's 10-1. (Many developed push button/switchpad related problems) "gw" wrote in message isn't it true that the older stuff is built like a battleship and isn't as proprietary and can be repaired with user obtainable parts? I always heard tek for scopes and hp for analyzers. Any thoughts on that? |
#5
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On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:46:28 -0500, Chuck Harris
wrote: The saddest problems I have found with the HP gear is purely their own fault. When they made the horizontal timing knobs for their 80's vintage scopes, they made them out of plastic, and carved large slots in the space between the outer part you turn with your fingers and the inner part that turns the knob. This left very little plastic to take the torque of turning the knob. Once they break there is no easy way of repairing them. That sounds just like the knobs used in the HT 32, 33, and SX101 series. They have a very thin flange, or lip around the front that is very fragile. I saw one on e-bay a couple days ago that was described as excellent, yet it had at least two sections of that lip missing. The other big problem is their use of delrin gears with aluminum hubs just about everywhere. And after 15 years, they are all broken. The HP8640B is built like a tank, but everyone I have ever had came with several gears that had split due to shrinkage. But Delrin is very easy to machine. Also unless the gears are of a very odd size (most are spur gears or a pair of 45 degree bevel gears) that can be replaced with something more modern and durable. I do like a lot of the new, lighter weight gear as I have a bad back. (Probably from man handling that old stuff that takes two good size men to load it into a trailer) Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2) -Chuck RP Jones wrote: With out doubt, most new hardware looks like its built to be thrown away and crushed. "Built in absolesance" Its a dam shame ! Id agree on Tek for scopes and HP for analyzers, if you look on Ebay HP "as is" scopes with problems must out number the Tek's 10-1. (Many developed push button/switchpad related problems) "gw" wrote in message isn't it true that the older stuff is built like a battleship and isn't as proprietary and can be repaired with user obtainable parts? I always heard tek for scopes and hp for analyzers. Any thoughts on that? |
#6
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"RP Jones" wrote in message . ..
With out doubt, most new hardware looks like its built to be thrown away and crushed. "Built in absolesance" Its a dam shame ! Id agree on Tek for scopes and HP for analyzers, if you look on Ebay HP "as is" scopes with problems must out number the Tek's 10-1. (Many developed push button/switchpad related problems) "gw" wrote in message isn't it true that the older stuff is built like a battleship and isn't as proprietary and can be repaired with user obtainable parts? I always heard tek for scopes and hp for analyzers. Any thoughts on that? what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. |
#7
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what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. What specs do you want, and how much do you want to spend? The HP 141T series is great for technically-inclined hams. Very maintainable, very reliable once you understand its quirks, very competitive performance... and very big and heavy. Typically $1K or less on eBay for a working outfit. Tek's 492-497 series are also excellent analyzers. Newer and much more portable than the 141T series, but still easily maintainable (via parts units and aftermarket suppliers, not through Tek). Quite a bit more expensive in most cases. $2K - $7K depending on model and options. HP 8560-series analyzers are also very nice; I have no personal experience with these, though. Stay away from the cheaper (8557/8/9) HP units. Tek's older 491 is probably also best avoided in favor of the 141T line (this is probably where the saying "HP for analyzers" came from.) Tek analyzers from the 2780 series should also be avoided by most users. They are still extremely expensive ($7K and up), and like the older 490/2750 analyzers no parts or manuals can be ordered from Tek anymore. However, unlike the 490/2750 units, they can be calibrated only with special PC-based configurations connected to specific test sources via GPIB and running obsolete software. Worse, Tek supported them only via module exchange, never releasing any component-level schematics. These are very powerful instruments, but keeping a 2782 or 2784 running nowadays would be a serious, ongoing research project in itself. These were symptomatic of the "bean-counter" generation at Tek, where customer needs were considered secondary to high-priced, proprietary product support and finite market lifetime. -- jm ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.qsl.net/ke5fx Note: My E-mail address has been altered to avoid spam ------------------------------------------------------ |
#8
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johnm wrote in message ...
what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. What specs do you want, and how much do you want to spend? The HP 141T series is great for technically-inclined hams. Very maintainable, very reliable once you understand its quirks, very competitive performance... and very big and heavy. Typically $1K or less on eBay for a working outfit. Tek's 492-497 series are also excellent analyzers. Newer and much more portable than the 141T series, but still easily maintainable (via parts units and aftermarket suppliers, not through Tek). Quite a bit more expensive in most cases. $2K - $7K depending on model and options. HP 8560-series analyzers are also very nice; I have no personal experience with these, though. Stay away from the cheaper (8557/8/9) HP units. Tek's older 491 is probably also best avoided in favor of the 141T line (this is probably where the saying "HP for analyzers" came from.) Tek analyzers from the 2780 series should also be avoided by most users. They are still extremely expensive ($7K and up), and like the older 490/2750 analyzers no parts or manuals can be ordered from Tek anymore. However, unlike the 490/2750 units, they can be calibrated only with special PC-based configurations connected to specific test sources via GPIB and running obsolete software. Worse, Tek supported them only via module exchange, never releasing any component-level schematics. These are very powerful instruments, but keeping a 2782 or 2784 running nowadays would be a serious, ongoing research project in itself. These were symptomatic of the "bean-counter" generation at Tek, where customer needs were considered secondary to high-priced, proprietary product support and finite market lifetime. -- jm ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.qsl.net/ke5fx Note: My E-mail address has been altered to avoid spam ------------------------------------------------------ how about a 8569b ? some guy has one on ebay now for about $3,000.00......i might pull the trigger on that one.....I would be using it for hf work. I was considering a 141t from tucker . it cost more but at least you know it works. i was going to get the 8552b and 8553b plugins with it. then you have to round up the connecting cables and manuals for them. comments? oh by the way i have read good things about the hp 8569b's. if they work. |
#10
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"John Miles" wrote in message ... In article , says... johnm wrote in message ... what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. SNIP how about a 8569b ? some guy has one on ebay now for about $3,000.00......i might pull the trigger on that one.....I would be using it for hf work. I was considering a 141t from tucker . it cost more but at least you know it works. i was going to get the 8552b and 8553b plugins with it. then you have to round up the connecting cables and manuals for them. comments? oh by the way i have read good things about the hp 8569b's. if they work. My guess is that the 8569b would be a very passable unit. Its specs seem competitive with an optioned-out Tek 492 in most respects, except that it only goes down to 10 MHz (perhaps there's an underrange capability that lets it see lower frequencies?) That might be a concern if you're going to be using it mostly for HF work. SNIP The 141Ts at Tucker seem like a pretty good deal. I believe they all come with new CRTs. I personally like to buy broken models on eBay and fix them up. It's cheaper, you get really familiar with the gear inside and out, and you always have spare parts on hand. But that strategy isn't for everybody. -- jm As I have HP-141's, an HP-8569, an 8566B and an 8562A, let me drop a few comments here. The 141's are the best deal for a hobbyist. You can acquire the slightly better 8552B IF section, and then get only the RF plug-in that suits your needs (an 8556, with it's built-in tracking generator, for a few Hz to 300 kHz, or an 8555, for 10 MHz through umpteen GHz, assuming you also get the external mixers). Unfortunately, by the time a hobbyist gets one of these, it has been abused and neglected by its last commercial owner. CRT burns are common, and the flood-gun analog memory may be very quirky. For an advanced hobbyist, either get an associated Polaroid scope camera, or build your own camera hood. You can capture a lot of transient things that way, and you can scan the pixs to input into your computer. Also, HP made a line of oscilloscope plug-ins that fit the 141 mainframe, so you can use the 141 as a multi-channel analog memory oscilloscope too. 141's are a pain in two ways; first, you have to externally store extra plug-ins, and secondly, the hard side handles make carrying one a painful experience beyond about 50 feet. Also, you tend to injure your fingertips sliding those bulky plug-ins in and out past the big metal front handles. The 141 may also be the last of the hobbyist repairable analyzers; newer analyzers use proprietary chips and are built too dense to let you get fingers and probes into them. The 8562A is old (1987) but a superb analyzer, 1 kHz to 18 GHz, all digital and synthesized. This will do everything you want, except drive a parallel or RS-232 printer directly. If you're smart enough to talk to it by IEEE-488, then you can do everything through the computer. Other 856x series units have lesser capabilities, but are still great analyzers, and just might be priced low enough for a very serious hobbyist. Also, the HP-859x series are very good, although some have odd frequency, memory and IO capabilities. All 856x & 859x series units are one-man portables, until your knuckles turn white and numb. The 8569 is, in my opinion, a transitional beast between the analog and digital worlds. It's not as stable and simple as the 8562A, although it's a leap above the 141. Since it's wide, it's also awkward to carry using it's handle. I'm not much of a fan of the 8569. The 8566B is HP's top-of-the-line analyzer. They threw down the benchmark for everyone else to try to meet. Mine is customized a bit, covering 20 Hz to 22 GHz, and with an external tracking pre-selector, optional detectors, programmable attenuators, RF path switching and low-noise pre-amps. My company has a number of somewhat more plain-vanilla 8566B's and 8566A's. There isn't anything I need to do that these units fall short of (uhh, with the help of some external IEEE-488 linked computers). OTOH, these are now obsolete, non-supported by Agilent, and need two guys to carry one. Mine is in a 60" tall dedicated rack. Typical used price is around $20k. Most companies will be better served with one of Agilent's newer EPA or SPA analyzers. Anritsu and Rohde & Schwartz are also making fine analyzers. IIRC, Leader makes an analyzer that a hobbyist may aspire to affording. I would say that a 141 is still the best hobbyist choice. A company needs to be sure that they get a usable item for their money, so buying on eBay is a gamble. A company should buy from some place like Tucker, where they get a warranty backed by a reputable source. Yeah, it initially costs more. But it's a lot safer than having to try to repair an analyzer when you need that analyzer to do the real work of your company. A hobbyist can afford to spend 50 to 100 hours to get something going; in a business environment, where the clock is always ticking, that's unacceptable. Ed wb6wsn |
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