On Mon, 10 May 2004 13:26:08 GMT, "Landshark"
wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 07 May 2004 03:39:02 GMT, "Landshark"
wrote:


"Leland C. Scott" wrote in message
...

You forgot about these Lee:

Before the
Federal Communications Commission
Washington, D.C. 20554


Irrelevant. This is a CB newsgroup. The "bad apples" of the ham radio
fraternity have no bearing on what happens here.


Sure it does, Lee posts stuff about cb'rs getting busted,
Jer does, N8 does, WA3MOJ does, so why can all these
people put up things about cb'rs, but I can't post this
about Hams?

That's easy. THIS IS A CB NEWSGROUP. Articles which pertain to CB,
including the publishing of the eventual consequences for thumbing
one's nose at the FCC, are part and parcel of CB operations.

A little one-sided don't you think? Naw,
never mind.

Not at all. If you want to go to the ham newsgroup and remind them
about their bad apples, it would be perfectly appropriate. Why would
you think that enforcement action against hams has a place on a CB
newsgroup?


Besides, two wrongs do not make a right. The fact that there are a
fair percentage of bad hams, does not diminish the seriousness of
illegal CB operation.

Agreed, but the fact that this is a CB newsgroup that a couple of
certain hams (N8WWM, WA3MOJ) are trolling this group and
posting that just to inflame is ok?

So reminding people of the consequences for illegal operation, is
nothing more than "trolling"?

If that is true, then wouldn't the best course of action to take in
this case, would be to ignore those who troll? Trolls want attention.
Responding just gives them what they want.


I think not, anymore than if
someone went onto the Ham groups and posted about Hams being
busted and then making statements that most hams are illegal, I
would think that would make them upset too.

It's not my problem if the truth upsets you. The simple fact is that
most people who operate on CB ARE running illegally to some degree.

Conversely, the percentage of hams who are illegal is much less, but
they have higher visibility, simply because the FCC is more serious
about enforcement on the ham bands, due largely to the fact that the
hams themselves asked for it. Hams, for the most part, want to be rid
of troublemakers. Most hams did not go through the trouble to pass the
test and earn their privileges, only to have to deal with idiots. When
you earn something, you are more likely to want to protect it.

If you want to post ham related enforcement logs on ham newsgroups,
then by all means, go for it. At least they'll be on a relevant
newsgroup.



The original poster was not asking for information about "peaked and
tuned" ham radios.......

OK, so? This is a CB newsgroup. Not a Ham newsgroup.

What does ham have to do with it? Operating modified radios on CB is
illegal. I know such mundane details like FCC rules are a thorn in the
ass of many people's fun, but the point needs to be made.

Dave
"Sandbagger"
http://home.ptd.net/~n3cvj

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
news
illegal. I know such mundane details like FCC rules are a thorn in the
ass of many people's fun, but the point needs to be made.

Dave
"Sandbagger"

Well Dave, you know I don't have a problem with you,
but Lee doesn't own a cb radio, talk on a cb radio, but does
post this stuff just to start a flame war. I bring up the Ham,
Because the ones that always post these things are Hams, that
don't own a CB or even talk on one, so why are they here?
To gain information on CB?
You really think that posting those things here has some
sort of impact? The things Jer does has more of an impact
then any of the posts, repost, re-post of reposts of CB'rs
getting busted 4+ years ago by the FCC in a cb group.
News Flash, CHP/NHP is doing a 0 tolerance on Highway 80,
from the SF Bay Area to the Nevada/Utah Stateline, broadcast
on TV/Radio/Newspaper/Internet, did that slow people down?
Some 400+ tickets written during that one day enforcement, CHP
said up some 15% from previous year when they did the same thing.

Landshark


--
The world is good-natured to people
who are good natured.

On Tue, 11 May 2004 13:43:54 GMT, "Landshark"
wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote in message
news
illegal. I know such mundane details like FCC rules are a thorn in the
ass of many people's fun, but the point needs to be made.

Dave
"Sandbagger"

Well Dave, you know I don't have a problem with you,
but Lee doesn't own a cb radio, talk on a cb radio, but does
post this stuff just to start a flame war.

Do you know that for sure? How much information does anybody really
know is true or not on these newsgroups? People are not who they claim
in many cases, and how they represent themselves is equally suspect.


I bring up the Ham,
Because the ones that always post these things are Hams, that
don't own a CB or even talk on one, so why are they here?

THAT is a good question. I don't understand why any ham, who is not
also interested in some form in CB, would waste their time here.


To gain information on CB?
You really think that posting those things here has some
sort of impact?

In the grand scheme of things, probably not. A small fraction of CB
operators actually read this newsgroup. But a small group of people do
seem to get some sort of satisfaction by raining on other people's
(illegal) parade. Many have left the group as a result.


The things Jer does has more of an impact
then any of the posts, repost, re-post of reposts of CB'rs
getting busted 4+ years ago by the FCC in a cb group.

Jerry's not the only one. There are a number of hams who routinely
monitor the lower end of 10 meters and report trespassers.
Personally, I am way too busy to play radio cop. But I applaud the
efforts of those who do.

It's one thing if the kids in the neighborhood want to play in the
vacant lot next door. Nobody really minds. But when they go beyond the
vacant lot and into the occupied home on the other side, there's bound
to be trouble.


News Flash, CHP/NHP is doing a 0 tolerance on Highway 80,
from the SF Bay Area to the Nevada/Utah Stateline, broadcast
on TV/Radio/Newspaper/Internet, did that slow people down?
Some 400+ tickets written during that one day enforcement, CHP
said up some 15% from previous year when they did the same thing.

So what you are saying, in essence, is that people are well aware of
the rules. If they choose to break them they will do so at their own
risk. Efforts to enforce the rules are a waste of time, since it will
not stem the tide of irresponsible behavior. Is that about right?

Dave
"Sandbagger"
http://home.ptd.net/~n3cvj

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 May 2004 13:43:54 GMT, "Landshark"
wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote in message
news
illegal. I know such mundane details like FCC rules are a thorn in the
ass of many people's fun, but the point needs to be made.

Dave
"Sandbagger"

Well Dave, you know I don't have a problem with you,
but Lee doesn't own a cb radio, talk on a cb radio, but does
post this stuff just to start a flame war.

Do you know that for sure? How much information does anybody really
know is true or not on these newsgroups? People are not who they claim
in many cases, and how they represent themselves is equally suspect.


Leland has said so a number of times, Doug too. Jerry has said
he doesn't care at all about cb, just 10 meters.
If by their own statements they don't care about CB, then
why believe them on anything else?


I bring up the Ham,
Because the ones that always post these things are Hams, that
don't own a CB or even talk on one, so why are they here?

THAT is a good question. I don't understand why any ham, who is not
also interested in some form in CB, would waste their time here.

Agreed

To gain information on CB?
You really think that posting those things here has some
sort of impact?

In the grand scheme of things, probably not. A small fraction of CB
operators actually read this newsgroup. But a small group of people do
seem to get some sort of satisfaction by raining on other people's
(illegal) parade. Many have left the group as a result.

Agreed

The things Jer does has more of an impact
then any of the posts, repost, re-post of reposts of CB'rs
getting busted 4+ years ago by the FCC in a cb group.

Jerry's not the only one. There are a number of hams who routinely
monitor the lower end of 10 meters and report trespassers.
Personally, I am way too busy to play radio cop. But I applaud the
efforts of those who do.

Agreed

It's one thing if the kids in the neighborhood want to play in the
vacant lot next door. Nobody really minds. But when they go beyond the
vacant lot and into the occupied home on the other side, there's bound
to be trouble.

I don't know about you, but as a kid & currently where I live
there really isn't any sort of fences, especially in the front
yards. so most "kids" play where they want. Now, it's probably
going to cause problems in the future when some "kid" hurts
himself, but right now no big deal.


News Flash, CHP/NHP is doing a 0 tolerance on Highway 80,
from the SF Bay Area to the Nevada/Utah Stateline, broadcast
on TV/Radio/Newspaper/Internet, did that slow people down?
Some 400+ tickets written during that one day enforcement, CHP
said up some 15% from previous year when they did the same thing.

So what you are saying, in essence, is that people are well aware of
the rules. If they choose to break them they will do so at their own
risk.

Yes

Efforts to enforce the rules are a waste of time, since it will
not stem the tide of irresponsible behavior. Is that about right?

No. It is the job of the duly appointed Officer (Sheriff, constable,
Highway Patrolman, Trooper) to enforce the laws, not me.
There would be no reason for me to go chasing after a speeder
and pull along side of him and start to berate him on how
he was speeding. It would just **** him off and maybe create
an even worse situation, road rage.


Dave


Landshark


--
Most true happiness comes
from one's inner life, from the
disposition of the mind and soul.
Admittedly, a good inner life is
hard to achieve, especially in
these trying times. It takes
reflection and contemplation
and self-discipline.

In , "Landshark"
wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .

snip
Efforts to enforce the rules are a waste of time, since it will
not stem the tide of irresponsible behavior. Is that about right?

No. It is the job of the duly appointed Officer (Sheriff, constable,
Highway Patrolman, Trooper) to enforce the laws, not me.


No, but it is your responsibility as a citizen to see that those laws are
enforced. That is, of course, assuming you want the laws to work in your favor;
i.e, the prosecution of those that violate your rights, safety, property, etc.


There would be no reason for me to go chasing after a speeder
and pull along side of him and start to berate him on how
he was speeding. It would just **** him off and maybe create
an even worse situation, road rage.


The least you can do is set an example (and enjoy the ride a little more) by
leaving a few minutes early and driving a little below the speed limit. It may
not make a noticable difference, but it's something, and it's certainly more
than your 'do-nothing' attitude. Apathy is not a solution. If you are not part
of the solution.....





-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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On Wed, 12 May 2004 02:07:50 GMT, "Landshark"
wrote:

Well Dave, you know I don't have a problem with you,
but Lee doesn't own a cb radio, talk on a cb radio, but does
post this stuff just to start a flame war.

Do you know that for sure? How much information does anybody really
know is true or not on these newsgroups? People are not who they claim
in many cases, and how they represent themselves is equally suspect.


Leland has said so a number of times, Doug too. Jerry has said
he doesn't care at all about cb, just 10 meters.
If by their own statements they don't care about CB, then
why believe them on anything else?

Many people have said many things. I take what I read with a grain of
salt. A lot of people take advantage of the relative anonymity of the
internet to behave in ways that they would never consider
face-to-face. Unless you fully understand and are willing to work
within that framework, and deal with people accordingly, you may fall
victim to trolls.

Jerry's not the only one. There are a number of hams who routinely
monitor the lower end of 10 meters and report trespassers.
Personally, I am way too busy to play radio cop. But I applaud the
efforts of those who do.

Agreed

It's one thing if the kids in the neighborhood want to play in the
vacant lot next door. Nobody really minds. But when they go beyond the
vacant lot and into the occupied home on the other side, there's bound
to be trouble.

I don't know about you, but as a kid & currently where I live
there really isn't any sort of fences, especially in the front
yards. so most "kids" play where they want. Now, it's probably
going to cause problems in the future when some "kid" hurts
himself, but right now no big deal.

I was using that as an analogy. The biggest rule to follow if you are
going to freeband is to tread lightly and keep a low profile. The more
attention you attract, the more likely it will be that you will cross
paths with the FCC at some point. Most of the freeband frequencies are
vacant (The vacant lot), and if the "kids" want to play there, not too
many people will mind, as long as they aren't making too much noise
(RFI), or they don't wander onto the neighbor's yard (10 meters).


So what you are saying, in essence, is that people are well aware of
the rules. If they choose to break them they will do so at their own
risk.

Yes

Efforts to enforce the rules are a waste of time, since it will
not stem the tide of irresponsible behavior. Is that about right?

No. It is the job of the duly appointed Officer (Sheriff, constable,
Highway Patrolman, Trooper) to enforce the laws, not me.

Do you think that this may be a part of the problem with society these
days? If no one is willing to support the laws, and instead place that
job fully on the shoulders of LEO, is it any surprise that there are
so many people willing to ignore those same laws?


There would be no reason for me to go chasing after a speeder
and pull along side of him and start to berate him on how
he was speeding. It would just **** him off and maybe create
an even worse situation, road rage.

Maybe so, but if people routinely did this, there would be a lot less
people speeding, and the cops would have an easier job.

Do we, as American citizens, not have a responsibility to stand up for
what is right? Do we have a responsibility to instill the need to be
more law abiding?

What event(s) took place that made it seem more "cool" to be a law
breaking rebel, rather than someone who obeys the rules?

When did social responsibility give way to social indifference?

It's no wonder when serial killers are caught, there will invariably
be those interviews with neighbors who can't understand why he was a
killer ("He was such a quiet guy"), and how he never gave any outward
signs. Maybe if people were more observant, they'd have seen the
signs.......

Food for thought.....

Dave
"Sandbagger"
http://home.ptd.net/~n3cvj




Dave


Landshark

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 May 2004 02:07:50 GMT, "Landshark"
Many people have said many things. I take what I read with a grain of
salt. A lot of people take advantage of the relative anonymity of the
internet to behave in ways that they would never consider
face-to-face. Unless you fully understand and are willing to work
within that framework, and deal with people accordingly, you may fall
victim to trolls.


Agreed, but when you continually announce that you have nothing
to do with CB, then you must be taken at you're word. As for
saying things face-to-face, you'll be right in most cases.


I was using that as an analogy. The biggest rule to follow if you are
going to freeband is to tread lightly and keep a low profile. The more
attention you attract, the more likely it will be that you will cross
paths with the FCC at some point. Most of the freeband frequencies are
vacant (The vacant lot), and if the "kids" want to play there, not too
many people will mind, as long as they aren't making too much noise
(RFI), or they don't wander onto the neighbor's yard (10 meters).

Agreed, in most any cases.


So what you are saying, in essence, is that people are well aware of
the rules. If they choose to break them they will do so at their own
risk.

Yes

Efforts to enforce the rules are a waste of time, since it will
not stem the tide of irresponsible behavior. Is that about right?

No. It is the job of the duly appointed Officer (Sheriff, constable,
Highway Patrolman, Trooper) to enforce the laws, not me.

Do you think that this may be a part of the problem with society these
days?

No. I believe the problems lays in the up bring and teachings
from Family & Friends in most cases.

If no one is willing to support the laws, and instead place that
job fully on the shoulders of LEO, is it any surprise that there are
so many people willing to ignore those same laws?

I think you should support the job that Law enforcement is doing,
but that does not mean chasing down speeders and people that do
break minor laws.


There would be no reason for me to go chasing after a speeder
and pull along side of him and start to berate him on how
he was speeding. It would just **** him off and maybe create
an even worse situation, road rage.

Maybe so, but if people routinely did this, there would be a lot less
people speeding, and the cops would have an easier job.

Any cop will tell you not to confront a law breaker, call them and
let them know, that is their job. Throw a ball in front of a speeding
car, make him swerve, possibly crash, injure himself or someone
other, you will be the law breaker, not the speeder.



Do we, as American citizens, not have a responsibility to stand up for
what is right? Do we have a responsibility to instill the need to be
more law abiding?

Yes, but as for "enforcement" of most laws, that is the responsibility of
the Police, not average Joe on the street.

What event(s) took place that made it seem more "cool" to be a law
breaking rebel, rather than someone who obeys the rules?

Don't know, again up bringing, but look at it this way, if
there were no traffic fines, cities, counties etc etc would
be broke.

When did social responsibility give way to social indifference?

Oh, mid 70's I would think.

It's no wonder when serial killers are caught, there will invariably
be those interviews with neighbors who can't understand why he was a
killer ("He was such a quiet guy"), and how he never gave any outward
signs. Maybe if people were more observant, they'd have seen the
signs.......

Food for thought.....

Serial killer? Most cases no, drug trafficking, yes, domestic abuse,
yes, a lot things yes, others you would never know.

Dave


Landshark


--
Real heroes are men who fall and fail
and are flawed, but win out in the end
because they've stayed true to their
ideals and beliefs and commitments.

On Wed, 12 May 2004 13:52:46 GMT, "Landshark"
wrote:




So what you are saying, in essence, is that people are well aware of
the rules. If they choose to break them they will do so at their own
risk.

Yes

Efforts to enforce the rules are a waste of time, since it will
not stem the tide of irresponsible behavior. Is that about right?

No. It is the job of the duly appointed Officer (Sheriff, constable,
Highway Patrolman, Trooper) to enforce the laws, not me.

Right, but it's the responsibility of every citizen to apply the
social equivalent of peer pressure to those who refuse to "tow the
line". This form of intimidation was widely employed in days long
gone, but has largely been abandoned in this age of indifference.


Do you think that this may be a part of the problem with society these
days?

No. I believe the problems lays in the up bring and teachings
from Family & Friends in most cases.

I would agree, and add that upbringing doesn't end at age 18.


If no one is willing to support the laws, and instead place that
job fully on the shoulders of LEO, is it any surprise that there are
so many people willing to ignore those same laws?

I think you should support the job that Law enforcement is doing,
but that does not mean chasing down speeders and people that do
break minor laws.

People need to be made aware that "minor laws" are not always as
"minor" as they may think. Many people believed that crimes such as
cable TV theft of service were "minor" because what was being stolen
was not physically tangible. But when the lost revenue for the cable
companies were added to the picture, it's not such a "victimless"
crime.

Speeding, on the surface, does not seem to be a big deal either. But
consider what can happen when there is a traffic mishap. Speed lessens
reaction time, and increases the potential for damage and injury.

Most laws were not created to ruin people's fun. They were created to
protect society as a collective whole.


There would be no reason for me to go chasing after a speeder
and pull along side of him and start to berate him on how
he was speeding. It would just **** him off and maybe create
an even worse situation, road rage.

Maybe so, but if people routinely did this, there would be a lot less
people speeding, and the cops would have an easier job.

Any cop will tell you not to confront a law breaker, call them and
let them know, that is their job. Throw a ball in front of a speeding
car, make him swerve, possibly crash, injure himself or someone
other, you will be the law breaker, not the speeder.

That would not be a good idea. But leaving a little "note" on the
offender's car every time it happens, including the forwarding of
their license number to the cops, might make someone think a little.

As a parent, I have become very conscious of people speeding through
residential neighborhoods. I would hate to have my kid or an
neighbor's kid fall victim to someone who's ignoring a "nuisance" law.


Do we, as American citizens, not have a responsibility to stand up for
what is right? Do we have a responsibility to instill the need to be
more law abiding?

Yes, but as for "enforcement" of most laws, that is the responsibility of
the Police, not average Joe on the street.

The police are given the jurisdiction to make arrests and levy fines.
But we all share the responsibility to make it known that we will not
stand by and allow these things to go on. By doing nothing, you are
giving your passive condonation, which further re-enforced the
attitude that breaking the law is "ok".

Like in the case of illegal CB use, it may seem that the guys
advocating legal operation are grossly outnumbered, but to ignore it,
is giving your acceptance of it.



What event(s) took place that made it seem more "cool" to be a law
breaking rebel, rather than someone who obeys the rules?

Don't know, again up bringing, but look at it this way, if
there were no traffic fines, cities, counties etc etc would
be broke.

A capitalist solution to a social problem. Turn the problem into a
windfall. Maybe if the fines were raised sufficiently, people might be
less inclined to take the risk.


When did social responsibility give way to social indifference?

Oh, mid 70's I would think.

I would agree. I'm still waiting for the pendulum to swing back.


Dave
"Sandbagger"
http://home.ptd.net/~n3cvj

FlaFla wrote:
You really think that posting those things here has some
sort of impact?

You think by posting peoples names and addresses will have
some sort of

impact, steve threaterning people will that have some sort of
impact, not with me, and as noted you nor any of your keyclowns
will ever disclose their address why? afraid of the impact?

right on brutha flav. notice all of the keyclowns names and address
are unknown, they are the ones doing the threats and trolling. except
landshark notice he never threatens or trolls. he plays it pretty mild
because he knows hes not anonymnous. imagine if steveo and twistedhed
were as easy to look up as kc8ldo and n8wwm I can say for sure they
would act much differently in here.

(Snotgeorge) wrote:
On Tue, 11 May 2004 15:44:42 -0500, FlaFla wrote:
You think by posting peoples names and addresses will have some sort
of

impact, steve threaterning people will that have some sort of
impact, not
with me, and as noted you nor any of your keyclowns will ever
disclose
their address why? afraid of the impact?







The things Jer does has more of an impact
then any of the posts, repost, re-post of reposts of CB'rs
getting busted 4+ years ago by the FCC in a cb group.
News Flash, CHP/NHP is doing a 0 tolerance on Highway 80,
from the SF Bay Area to the Nevada/Utah Stateline, broadcast
on TV/Radio/Newspaper/Internet, did that slow people down?
Some 400+ tickets written during that one day enforcement, CHP
said up some 15% from previous year when they did the same thing.

Landshark

So go tell them what they are doing does not have an impact, they
will
tell you to head back down to gaylord street and mind your own
business.


right on brutha flav. notice that I Am Not George's name and address
is unknown, he is the one doing the threats and trolling. imagine if
I
Am Not George was as easy to look up as kc8ldo and n8wwm
I can say for sure he would act much differently in here.

No according to the keyclowns I am wa3moj which makes me easy to look
up and makes you an anonymous troll, assflap.