On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 19:22:33 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

In , wrote:


Many times...........even tested them.


Sorry your tests results were debunked by Frank in the xterminator
thread, you are a voodoo tech

Frank never tested any of the antennas.


I just tested my 9' whip (mounted on the roo-guard of my Dodge). Tied
it back so the top was parallel with the ground (pointing East, if
that makes a difference). Measurements were compared to the antenna
straight up.......;

SWR didn't change at all, and vertically polarized field strength
dropped by a hair. However, horizontally polarized field strength made
a huge jump to the good. Subjectively, I listened to the toilet bowl
while pulling on the lanyard. Some weak signals disappeared while
others came in that weren't there before. Let the whip go back to
vertical and the old signals came back while the new signals were
lost.

Looks like it's a compromise situation.


Frank
Did you try it in Barney Phife mode? The start of this thread was
on car, it was suggested that you tie it down like a bow. Bows are
bent 180 degrees, so it would have to be tied down to the same level
as the base. I tried it and the minimum SWR point moved lower in
frequency.
Modeling it showed that the take off angle also increased. Maybe
causing the effect you were seeing.

Lancer wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 19:22:33 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

In , wrote:


Many times...........even tested them.


Sorry your tests results were debunked by Frank in the xterminator
thread, you are a voodoo tech

Frank never tested any of the antennas.


I just tested my 9' whip (mounted on the roo-guard of my Dodge). Tied
it back so the top was parallel with the ground (pointing East, if
that makes a difference). Measurements were compared to the antenna
straight up.......;

SWR didn't change at all, and vertically polarized field strength
dropped by a hair. However, horizontally polarized field strength made
a huge jump to the good. Subjectively, I listened to the toilet bowl
while pulling on the lanyard. Some weak signals disappeared while
others came in that weren't there before. Let the whip go back to
vertical and the old signals came back while the new signals were
lost.

Looks like it's a compromise situation.


Frank
Did you try it in Barney Phife mode? The start of this thread was
on car, it was suggested that you tie it down like a bow. Bows are
bent 180 degrees, so it would have to be tied down to the same level
as the base. I tried it and the minimum SWR point moved lower in
frequency.
Modeling it showed that the take off angle also increased. Maybe
causing the effect you were seeing.

Think you could talk flatside dx with it in that position? Which
direction did it talk best?

--
I won't retire, but I might retread.

On 16 Jun 2004 12:18:50 GMT, Steveo
wrote:

Lancer wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 19:22:33 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

In , wrote:


Many times...........even tested them.


Sorry your tests results were debunked by Frank in the xterminator
thread, you are a voodoo tech

Frank never tested any of the antennas.


I just tested my 9' whip (mounted on the roo-guard of my Dodge). Tied
it back so the top was parallel with the ground (pointing East, if
that makes a difference). Measurements were compared to the antenna
straight up.......;

SWR didn't change at all, and vertically polarized field strength
dropped by a hair. However, horizontally polarized field strength made
a huge jump to the good. Subjectively, I listened to the toilet bowl
while pulling on the lanyard. Some weak signals disappeared while
others came in that weren't there before. Let the whip go back to
vertical and the old signals came back while the new signals were
lost.

Looks like it's a compromise situation.


Frank
Did you try it in Barney Phife mode? The start of this thread was
on car, it was suggested that you tie it down like a bow. Bows are
bent 180 degrees, so it would have to be tied down to the same level
as the base. I tried it and the minimum SWR point moved lower in
frequency.
Modeling it showed that the take off angle also increased. Maybe
causing the effect you were seeing.

Think you could talk flatside dx with it in that position? Which
direction did it talk best?

Steve;
I didn't play with it all that much to see which direction it
talked the best. Modeling, showed that the Max Horizontal field is
broadside to the antenna and Max vertical is more inline with the
direction that its bent. Does your news server carry
alt.binaries.pictures.radio? I put a jpeg of it there.
Red is The Hor field, Black is the Vert

Lancer wrote:
Steve;
I didn't play with it all that much to see which direction it
talked the best. Modeling, showed that the Max Horizontal field is
broadside to the antenna and Max vertical is more inline with the
direction that its bent. Does your news server carry
alt.binaries.pictures.radio? I put a jpeg of it there.
Red is The Hor field, Black is the Vert

Cool..thanks.

--
I won't retire, but I might retread.

In , Lancer
wrote:

snip
Steve;
I didn't play with it all that much to see which direction it
talked the best. Modeling, showed that the Max Horizontal field is
broadside to the antenna and Max vertical is more inline with the
direction that its bent. Does your news server carry
alt.binaries.pictures.radio? I put a jpeg of it there.
Red is The Hor field, Black is the Vert


I got the day off so I took the truck out in the field, did a
Barney-bend to the windshield-wiper, and did a 10 degree (36-point)
field-strength test. Your jpeg is pretty close to what I got, except:
I see sharper lobes; the measured horizontal was weaker relative to
the vertical (possibly due to a higher take-off angle -- FSM was about
200' downrange), and; forward has more gain than aft (not forgetting
that my mount is on the bow). While driving the truck in a circle for
the tests I noticed that some stations would null.

My guess is that the Barney-bend acts like a loop antenna with its
characteristic null, but because it is only a half-loop it has a
horizontal component.

We really should summon Jay for this discussion.






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In , Lancer
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 19:22:33 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

In , wrote:


Many times...........even tested them.


Sorry your tests results were debunked by Frank in the xterminator
thread, you are a voodoo tech

Frank never tested any of the antennas.


I just tested my 9' whip (mounted on the roo-guard of my Dodge). Tied
it back so the top was parallel with the ground (pointing East, if
that makes a difference). Measurements were compared to the antenna
straight up.......;

SWR didn't change at all, and vertically polarized field strength
dropped by a hair. However, horizontally polarized field strength made
a huge jump to the good. Subjectively, I listened to the toilet bowl
while pulling on the lanyard. Some weak signals disappeared while
others came in that weren't there before. Let the whip go back to
vertical and the old signals came back while the new signals were
lost.

Looks like it's a compromise situation.


Frank
Did you try it in Barney Phife mode? The start of this thread was
on car, it was suggested that you tie it down like a bow. Bows are
bent 180 degrees, so it would have to be tied down to the same level
as the base. I tried it and the minimum SWR point moved lower in
frequency.


I didn't pull it over 180 degrees. I don't even know if it will bend
like that without taking off the spring. But it seems like if it goes
over 180 the top capacitance to ground would increase, as well as the
inductive reactance due to the bend, which might explain the drop in
frequency. IOW, it might result in a crude form of linear-loading.


Modeling it showed that the take off angle also increased. Maybe
causing the effect you were seeing.


Possible. But with a 90 degree bend it seems more likely that it was
just a polarity issue. I wouldn't even begin to guess how the polarity
would be affected in a 'Barney bend'.






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