From: (Dave=A0Hall)
On Mon, 16 May 2005 17:59:19 -0400, (I
AmnotGeorgeBush) wrote:

You know, you are hopeless.

Apology accepted.

On Tue, 17 May 2005 05:40:36 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2005 07:32:43 -0400, Dave Hall
wrote in :

On Mon, 16 May 2005 13:46:48 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

On Mon, 16 May 2005 08:56:31 -0400, Dave Hall
wrote in :

snip
See, this is what's so puzzling about you Frank. Once in a while you
unload with a brilliant piece of perspective, which is at total odds
with your status in life. You're one hell of an underachiever.


Dr. Kramer probably wouldn't agree. Do you want the book or not?

Frank, I can get as much information as I need right from the
internet. It's a lot better than finding places to keep all those
books.


Hence the source of your ingnorance and the reason you find me to be
so "puzzling".

No, I find you puzzling because you are so pompous and arrogant about
what you claim as "knowledge" yet, the application of such knowledge
in your own life has been dismally short of achievement. You are
either an accomplished liar, or a severe underachiever.


You ignore any other possibilities.

Yes, I ignored many possibilities in order to focus on the two most
likely PROBABILITIES.


For a guy who claims to know as much, and has done as much as you have
claimed, all you have to show for yourself is a job as a bartender,
driving a 20+ year old vehicle?


Only if that's how you measure "achievement". I'm not that
superficial.

Yea, we all know how superficial the pursuit of a person's greatest
potential is.


You're a regular Cliff Clavin.


Even if I did work for the USPS, I'd rather deliver mail than pizzas.

So would I. The bennies are pretty good when you work for the
government.



Now you muse about starting a lawn care service. No offense to Steveo,
but that's not exactly the skill level job that a man of your supposed
"credentials" should be aspiring to.


By your standards. But you can't seem to understand that not everyone
lives by your standards, Dave.

Yea, I know, you're an underachiever by choice. That's what they all
say.......



So, what's your (latest) excuse?

A man who truly knows the things that you try to pass off to the rest
of us here, would be in a high level engineering or marketing
position,


Done that. Boring.


or perhaps a stint as a university professor,


Done that. Fun, but the pay sucks until you get tenure.

An interesting comment from someone who just a few lines back claimed
to be "not that superficial".

or maybe a
government contractor.


No thanks, I've taken a look at a few government contracts. They
barely fit the definition of "legally binding".

Now, let's take a closer look at this, and expose just why these
answers that you gave are highly unlikely. You once claimed that you
were in the military in the mid 80's, then worked for a while. Then
you went back to school (presumably because you had trouble finding a
decent job). Now a BS program requires a 4 year course study at a
minimum. Assuming you're not living at home sponging off mon and dad,
you're going to have to work to make ends meet, which means a leaner
curriculum, and a longer time frame. Personal experience has shown me
that a night school BS degree can take up to 8 years to complete. But
even so, you likely did not receive your degree until the 90's. Now, a
BS in engineering does not, in itself qualify you to teach. You would
also need additional education to receive a teaching certificate. Then
there is the issue of experience. Most guys straight out of school are
not worth a heck of a lot, and are usually hired at entry level
positions in order to gain experience. During this time, you've also
claimed to have worked as a broadcast engineer at 2 different radio
stations (which is probably the only truth).

So, in a period of time that spans no more than about 10 to 15 years,
you want us to believe that you've been a broadcast engineer, worked
in marketing and design engineering (even with no previous related
experience), and taught at a university (Even without any teaching
experience in "lower" educational institutions). Man, you're one busy
guy Frank. So, I guess the stint tending bar is just a result of
"burnout" from all that achieving?

Either you just can't seem to figure out what you want to do for a
living, or you like to tell tall tales.


Or maybe you'd work with me.


Doubtful. I -order- pizzas, I don't deliver them.

Ah yes, the other defense mechanism typical from an underachiever with
self esteem issues. It is certainly more comforting, to someone in
your predicament, to accuse and believe that others are worse off than
you are thereby justifying, to some degree, your own failures. So if
you want to believe that I deliver pizza's for a living (And
supporting a family, a large home, a boat, camper, and 3 vehicles on
that salary) so that you can feel better about yourself, then I'll go
along with it. Heck, I'd hate to think you went for the razor blades
or the old rubber hose from the tailpipe on my account.


The bottom line Frank, is that you talk a great line, but you produce
very little. I can tell that by the way you approach CB radio
troubleshooting. You offer only generic troubleshooting 101 solutions
to problems, which indicates that you have very little direct
experience with actually repairing a CB radio, which have known
problem areas.


Uh-huh, that's why I narrowed the buzzing-radio problem down to the
voltage regulator while you were busy defending your highly
generalized assumption that the problem is "almost always caps", huh?

The final answer to that question was never realized. Your continued
egotistical need to belittle me in that thread most likely chased the
original poster away.


But you go right ahead and limit yourself to the
internet for your sole source of information

Once again you make assumptions, a repetitive pattern for you. I never
said the internet was my SOLE source of information.


Wrong. You said, "I can get as much information as I need right from
the internet." You can try and spin the semantics all you want but it
means the same thing.

Which means exactly that, I can get the factual information that I
need from the internet. That does not mean that I get life EXPERIENCE
from the internet, as you attempted to claim with later examples.



But it is the
fastest and easiest source of information on a variety of topics,
especially current events. It was the internet, that first blew the
lid off of "Rathergate", and exposed it as the propaganda smear that
it was intended to be. The Blog has become a powerful tool to expose
media bias and helps to parse the stories in order to gain the truth.
Sure you can read about something in a book, but the internet is
instantaneous, interactive, and ever evolving. There are decisive
advantages to that.


Speaking of 'media bias', are you keeping up-to-date on the status of
one of your staunchly anti-gay, conservative Republicans that happens
to be the mayor of my home town?

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/jimwest/


No, I'm more interested in the criminal activities surrounding the
associates of the democratic mayor of Philadelphia in a "Pay to play"
scandal. It is, after all, more regionally relevant for me.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/10995886.htm


-- let me know when you
find the winding specifications for an Ajax M-2-145T, or the firearm
most preferred by Deep-River Jim, or why Bessie slashed up her own
portrait.

If I had any interest in those subjects, I'm sure I'd find them,
assuming these people are significant.


I doubt you could find them even if you wanted to.

If that's truly the case, then it's equally likely that I'd have
little interest.




But while we're on the subject, I have found much information on the
local history of my local area, and the trolley, rail, and canal lines
that used to run through here over the turn of the century. I have
found the horsepower specifications for the triple expansion 4
cylinder piston engines in the Titanic, as well as the Parson's
Turbine center engine. I have tracked radio wave propagation, tides, a
web cam of my favorite lake, and my friend's pool. There is nothing
you can read in print, than can't be scanned into a web page, or pdf
file.


Yet so much -hasn't- been scanned.

Key Word: "Yet".

All I can say is that I sure wish I had the tools of the internet and
computers back when I had to do term papers. The task would have been
much less tedious and actually somewhat interesting, and fun.


There will be a time, in the not so distant future, where all
published works will be delivered in electronic format. Printed books
will become museum attractions, for those desiring a return to the
"quaint old days". I am currently involved in projects that enable
much of the concept of a seamless central home voice, video, and data
model.


I have the complete Cisco router manuals on CD ROM. I have
access to repeater user's groups where we can seek out and share each
other's expertise to solve problems. The list is endless Frank.


It's far from endless, Dave. It doesn't even have endless potential.

Ok, so it's "virtually" (no pun) endless.



I might read an intriguing novel by the fireplace on a cool winter's
night, but if it's information that I want, the fingers fly to the
keyboard.


Find a link that explains why you can see the Douglas Firs
towering above you in the middle of the woods on a pitch-black and
starless night.

I'd rather just witness that myself first hand. I do a lot of camping
you know.


No, I don't know. If you haven't witnessed what I described then maybe
you haven't done as much camping as you claim.

I have seen trees of all sorts towering over me at night. There's no
mystery to this. Even on a moonless and cloudy night, there is still
enough ambient light to show the silhouettes of the trees.


Download the feelings of watching Israeli officers
picking off Palistinian schoolkids running out of a burning building
like they were ducks in a shooting gallery.

And what? You read that in a book?


No, I was there, fool. How long have you -really- been in this
newsgroup?

Oh, that's right, you were in the military.

I've come close though. I have
corresponded, via E-Mail, with U.S. army folks fighting in Iraq, in
order to get their personal perspective on the situation. It's a far
different picture than what the mainstream media wants us to think.


You don't have a clue, Dave.

So, are you claiming that these people are lying to me? People that I
am related to or friends with?

I'm sure you can exercise your
imagination, but there are experiences in combat situations that have
no comparison or common frame of reference to pizza delivery drivers.

Ah, that underachiever's ego feel good justification rears its ugly
head once again. It's curious (maybe not so) that you stoop to that
level when you cannot counter my points with any facts. That leave
nothing but insults. Your case gets weaker by the day.


I'm sure you can find a
site that has the cyber-smell file of a Northwest sawmill.

As I'm sure you can from a book. But you can go to a Home Depot and
get a similar effect.

It's not the same. It's like saying you know what a homemade apple pie
tastes like because you once bought a Hostess pastry at the 7/11.

Assuming I have a desire to make an apple pie.


And I'm
sure there's some adapter you can plug into the USB port that will let
you enjoy the unmatched hospitality (and world-class pastries) offered
by a family of Norwegians when all you did was ask to fill up your
water can.

When have you been to Norway?


1984.

Ah, another port of call for the traveling military grunt on Uncle
Sam's nickel. It's a far different experience traveling, when you can
stay at a 4 or 5 star hotel on the company tab. The downside though is
that the food can get a bit rich and that tends to make the job of
maintaining my boyish figure a bit more difficult ;-)

I've never been to Norway, although I came close to hitting Amsterdam.
I managed to get out of going because I didn't want to leave my wife
and then infant daughter home alone for a few weeks. I don't like
traveling to foreign countries anyway. Especially with the
anti-American sentiment going around. But there are a lot of very nice
U.S. cities that I've liked. Mostly I remember them due to interesting
eateries the I've found there. The "Wattaburger" in Brownsville Texas,
Dickies Ribs in Dallas, Farmer Jones' Red Barn in Lakeland Florida,
Nandell's Inn in Seattle, The Airplane themed pub (the name escapes
me) across from Mitchell airport in Milwaukee, and many others.

We could talk about airports too. Even those folks in Denver and San
Francisco want their pizza's delivered hot and fresh, even if it takes
5 hours to get there.


Did you need to order some new imported
beer for the bar?


No, but I did buy a large 'Norwegian' Bud at a small grocery store. I
think I still have the label stashed away somewhere. I also might have
a couple labels from bottles of Maccabe beer from Israel. I'm pretty
sure I have a couple phone tokens and a few sheckels in coins.

Ah, souvenirs. I have a can of Junkanoo punch from the Bahamas, a can
of Taiwan beer from Taipei, the strange looking "old fashioned" styled
Coke bottle from Mexico (The water sucks in Mexico, but the Coca-Cola
is much better).


The internet is fun but it's no substitute for books, people, nature,
or direct experiences. But you think that you can get everything you
need from your computer. You are a fool, Dave.

I never claimed to get ALL of my information from the internet. Only
that I can research any topic that I wish on the internet and get the
same or better information a heck of a lot quicker and easier than
using the old fashioned method of buying (or borrowing) a book.


That's only true if the info is available on the net. So much info
-isn't- on the net.

I agree, but I haven't run into that situation on the things that I am
interested in.


You, on the other hand, need to get away from the left coast. It's
really affecting your perception.


"The West is the best".

The west is far too liberal. A weird blend of cynicism mixed with
naive idealism.

Dave
"Sandbagger"

On Tue, 17 May 2005 13:45:31 GMT, "Landshark"
wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
Why is it only now do certain people find
exception to it?

You would have to ask one. My guess would be a certain faction is trying
to cram their religious beliefs down otehr's throats.

Those beliefs have been a part of our culture since this country was
founded. The perception that religion is "suddenly" being "Crammed
down other people's throats" is held by those who have been
conspicuously absent from any religious influences in their lives and
see any display of religion as excessive. Yet it is those same people
who are the ones at odds with our society, as history will testify to.



The problem is both sides. One person find offense with
something of a religious over tone in government, he then
finds the ACLU and wants it removed. Now the religious
zealots start banging the drums in defense of religion.

You are exactly right. That is why this is reaching a head. Someone
finds something offensive, gets the muscle of a group such as the ACLU
to have it removed (Like lame Holiday party names instead of
Christians parties). It's not surprising that the people who support
these traditions will fight to retain them.

Except when the law doesn't agree with your point of view or actions.
You claim ignorance of the law is no excuse, but you arrogantly claim
you break the law intentionally (holding up traffic in the passing lane,
paralelling the car in the right lane) in order to enforce another law.
Pa law states the left lane is for passing only. You're an uninformed
(regarding the law in your own state) hypocrite.

It is not illegal to run in the left lane as long as you are either
passing or maintaining the posted speed limit. Do you honestly expect
everyone to run in the right lane once they've hit the posted limit?
That's ludicrous. Especially considering the volume of traffic in this
area.

I can't answer for PA, but in California you would get a ticket
for impeding the flow of traffic. I've seen it, so please don't
say it doesn't happen.

So, the alternative is to allow people to exceed the posted limit?
That seem somewhat contradictory to me.


So basically, the way the law is written, it pretty much forces people
to break the speed limit in order to "justify" using the left lane?

You do understand the logic here right? If you are legally bound to
maintain the posted speed limit, then you cannot pass someone already
doing the legal limit, and the great majority of traffic would be
bound to remain in the right lane, except to pass those occasional
slow pokes. I'm sure I don't need to explain heavy traffic to a
California resident, but can you imagine if everyone tried to stay in
the right lane?


Both of you are
severe underachievers.

I don't think so. I don't think you are either. I do think that
you all are on the far end of political and religious spectrum,
as such, this argument between you three will never end.

I am hardly a religious zealot. I don't even go to church. I am not
even a practicing Christian. But I do believe in a "God" and I do
believe in intelligent design, and I believe in keeping morality as a
guide to responsible social behavior. I am for preserving proven
tradition and do not believe that change is automatically a good
thing. I am also a political conservative (As are you IIRC), and tend
to favor smaller government, personal responsibility and
accountability, a free market and a strong morality based system of
law and order in order to punish those who cannot act properly in a
civilized society.


The arguments between Frank, Twisty and I are much more complex than a
simple ideological disagreement. Twisty is twisty. His actions need no
further explanation. Frank has been stung ever since I admitted that I
supported Bush. A revelation that seems to have affected him
personally. Frank has since been trying to prove that support of Bush
(and republicans in general) is wrong based solely on his subjective
opinion that only an idiot would support him so, consequently, he has
been since trying to prove that I'm that idiot. But during the course
of the ensuing "debates", Frank has revealed much about his
personality, and has given me an insight into his own inner demons. I
can now see why he and Twisty have found common ground. They both have
a profound distrust of corporations and any form of "the
establishment". And, if their level of knowledge and education is as
they claim, they are both underachievers. Frank, who once claimed to
teach college courses, and claims to hold a BS degree in engineering,
working as a bartender. Twisty, who claims to be well versed in law,
and an "accomplished" writer, takes snowbirds out to fish on a charter
boat, and can't even afford a real computer. No wonder he hides behind
an anonymous pseudonym.

It had been fun from a purely psychological standpoint. But I am
beginning to tire of this almost constant off-topic banter. I am
actually longing for the days when we talked about amplifiers and mods
to radios. I never guessed that a simple ideological disagreement
would turn into several years worth of trash talking.

Dave
"Sandbagger"

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
news

Except when the law doesn't agree with your point of view or actions.
You claim ignorance of the law is no excuse, but you arrogantly claim
you break the law intentionally (holding up traffic in the passing lane,
paralelling the car in the right lane) in order to enforce another law.
Pa law states the left lane is for passing only. You're an uninformed
(regarding the law in your own state) hypocrite.

It is not illegal to run in the left lane as long as you are either
passing or maintaining the posted speed limit. Do you honestly expect
everyone to run in the right lane once they've hit the posted limit?
That's ludicrous. Especially considering the volume of traffic in this
area.

I can't answer for PA, but in California you would get a ticket
for impeding the flow of traffic. I've seen it, so please don't
say it doesn't happen.

So, the alternative is to allow people to exceed the posted limit?
That seem somewhat contradictory to me.


So basically, the way the law is written, it pretty much forces people
to break the speed limit in order to "justify" using the left lane?


Nope, it's called impeding the flow of traffic. If the basic
traffic flow is going 65 to 70mph and you get three cars
all going 65mph. The back up behind is more of a hazard
than the people breaking the basic speed law.

(Big snip)




Dave
"Sandbagger"

Landshark


--
Is it so frightening to have me at your shoulder?
Thunder and lightning couldn't be bolder.
I'll write on your tombstone, ``I thank you for dinner.''
This game that we animals play is a winner.

On Wed, 18 May 2005 07:49:36 -0400, Dave Hall
wrote in :

snip
Speaking of 'media bias', are you keeping up-to-date on the status of
one of your staunchly anti-gay, conservative Republicans that happens
to be the mayor of my home town?

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/jimwest/


No, I'm more interested in the criminal activities surrounding the
associates of the democratic mayor of Philadelphia in a "Pay to play"
scandal. It is, after all, more regionally relevant for me.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/10995886.htm


Gee Dave, after all your sermons about morality -- you don't care
about a pedophile that not only used his government office for
cyber-sex but promised internships to young boys in exchange for
'dates'? What happened to your morality, Dave? Did it suddenly get
lost because West is a conservative Republican?


snip
All I can say is that I sure wish I had the tools of the internet and
computers back when I had to do term papers. The task would have been
much less tedious and actually somewhat interesting, and fun.


Where did you go to college, Dave? And BTW, what was the name of that
tech school you claimed to have attended? Who does the majority party
represent if not the majority? Where does the Constitution require, or
even suggest, that religious influence should play any role in the
government? How does gay and lesbian marriage infringe on your rights?







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Dave Hall, N3CVJ wrote:
Now, let's take a closer look at this, and

expose just why these answers that you gave

are highly unlikely. You once claimed that you

were in the military in the mid 80's, then

worked for a while. Then you went back to

school (presumably because you had trouble

finding a decent job). Now a BS program

requires a 4 year course study at a minimum.



Frank was in the military (can earn you college credits) and it doesn't
take 4 years minimum to get a BS degree. It is often done in 3 or less.
In fact, there are many who do it in less time. Many major universities
and schools have BS programs that take less than 4 years.

Dave Hall, N3CVJ wrote:
(I can't answer for PA, but in California you would get a ticket for
impeding the flow of traffic. I've seen it, so please don't say it
doesn't happen. )

So, the alternative is to allow people to exceed

the posted limit?



You have no choice in the matter.It is not you that is permitted to
enforce the trafficl laws, despite your need for assumed status over
others.

That seem somewhat contradictory to me.

Only because you are ignorant of the law and express difficulty
understanding it.
Cruising in the left lane is illegal...period, Your feelings and
objections are irrelevant.


So basically, the way the law is written, it

pretty much forces people to break the speed

limit in order to "justify" using the left lane?




Not at all. You are not to be in the left lane AT ALL unless you are
passing. If the person in front of you in the right lane is doing the
speed limit, you have no business in the left or passing lane. Now you
are expressing difficulties comprehending your lawbreaking ways that
illustrate your hypocrisy.

You do understand the logic here right?


The logic is that you lived ot be as old as you are but still are a
hypocrite and can;t comprehend you are breaking the law and any "logic"
you feel is related to your behavior is justification for you to break
the law.

If you are legally bound to maintain the posted
speed limit, then you cannot pass someone

already doing the legal limit, and the great

majority of traffic would be bound to remain in

the right lane, except to pass those occasional

slow pokes.



That is the law...very good, David. SSince you disagree with it so
vehemently, it is suggested you take your own advice .."You are bound to
adhere to the law. If you don't agree with it, lobby to have it changed.
Breaking the law is no excuse."

I'm sure I don't need to explain heavy traffic to

a California resident, but can you imagine if

everyone tried to stay in the right lane?


The only thing imagined here is you believing you are not a hypocrite
for your law breaking ways. According your own words, you're a criminal,
also.

Dave Hall Jr. (N3CVJ) wrote:
When you get your head handed to you with

regard to one topic

Pot,,kettle,,black.

I'm not sure what has you hopping around like the easter bunny who has
to take a very bad ****, but I can guess.


Was it the application of your invoked "statistical probability" factor
to yourself after you made the comment "there is no George"?


Was it your goof concerning your misuse and misapplication of the word
"Quantify"?


Was it your self-contradiction where you first claimed an "endorsement"
of religion by the people, then turned around in the same post and
claimed there was no endorsement of such?


Perhaps it was because you were accusing me of being wrong in all my
claims concerning you, but refused to give explicit permission to post
such "wrong" information.


Then again, it could have been your claim that sex, in regards to
catching an STD, is not an all or nothing proposition, when that is most
certainly what it is,,,,,stay celibate or screw at your own risk.

Or the Bush failures you asked for, was provided, then you vanished.

Maybe it was that old habit you have of denying the existence of
everything you are not aware, such as your claim that there is no
reference point in which to measure global warming. then again, it could
have been the fact that your own party acknowledges such, and just like
your chosen hobby, you have no clue concerning those who govern your
world.

Then again, it was probably the fact you were conned into admitting you
were a criminal (your word) by breaking Pa traffic law.


Yep. You sure handed me my head. I can't wait for you to do it again. In
the meantime, enoy your rest, take a few deep breaths, regroup, refresh,
douche, powder, whatever you have to do to cleanse your wickedness and
become a proper contributing member to society instead of a law breaking
criminal who is on the level of crackheads and vagrants (also your
words).

On Wed, 18 May 2005 09:54:03 -0400, (I
AmnotGeorgeBush) wrote in
:

Dave Hall, N3CVJ wrote:
Now, let's take a closer look at this, and

expose just why these answers that you gave

are highly unlikely. You once claimed that you

were in the military in the mid 80's, then

worked for a while. Then you went back to

school (presumably because you had trouble

finding a decent job). Now a BS program

requires a 4 year course study at a minimum.



Frank was in the military (can earn you college credits)


Yep. Tarheel U. has (had?) a program set up for jarheads in Camp
Lejeune.


and it doesn't
take 4 years minimum to get a BS degree. It is often done in 3 or less.
In fact, there are many who do it in less time. Many major universities
and schools have BS programs that take less than 4 years.


Dave would know that already if he actually attended college.







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On Wed, 18 May 2005 14:56:11 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

On Wed, 18 May 2005 09:54:03 -0400, (I
AmnotGeorgeBush) wrote in
:

Dave Hall, N3CVJ wrote:
Now, let's take a closer look at this, and

expose just why these answers that you gave

are highly unlikely. You once claimed that you

were in the military in the mid 80's, then

worked for a while. Then you went back to

school (presumably because you had trouble

finding a decent job). Now a BS program

requires a 4 year course study at a minimum.



Frank was in the military (can earn you college credits)


Yep. Tarheel U. has (had?) a program set up for jarheads in Camp
Lejeune.


and it doesn't
take 4 years minimum to get a BS degree. It is often done in 3 or less.
In fact, there are many who do it in less time. Many major universities
and schools have BS programs that take less than 4 years.


Dave would know that already if he actually attended college.

Heck, you can earn a college "degree" these days without ever setting
a foot in a classroom. But 20 years ago, that just wasn't the case.
You had a certain amount of credits that you had to earn, and a
required course curriculum. Yes, it was possible to do it in less than
four years, but that required an overly ambitious fast-paced schedule.
Most people are not up for that.

Night school allowed people to avoid many of the "nonsense" courses,
which were unrelated to your major, that the full time day programs
usually required you to take. But the people who took the night school
route usually were, like me, working full time during the day, and
could not take as many courses per semester and, consequently, it
could take close to 8 years to earn the B.S.

Dave
"Sandbagger"