102" whip
 

"DrDeath" wrote:
"Steveo" wrote in message
Snipped

The 102" rocks, except for its tree pruning and over-hang scraping
qualities..oh and it's a bit on the odious side appearance wise. I have
that mount and a Wilson 1000 on one of my trucks, I rarely put the 102"
on because of the noise it makes banging off of things, and it's
somewhat directional mounted on the step bumper. (good dx shooter)

The Wilson 1000 mag mount is hard to beat for most practical
applications.

I have mine mounted in the center of my truck box, puts it pretty close
to center. I have to tie down for the drive through.

The 102?

102" whip
 

102" whip
 

"DrDeath" wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:10:41 -0600, "DrDeath"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..

Let the games begin.

Mounted properly the 102" is king.

King of what?


Of mobile antennas of course. Unless your participating in a keydown
and need some oil cooled coil, you will get the best results with a
102" and they are good (most of them) to 1kw.

You will get good results but not necessarily the best results.

How so? Give me an example. Unless Jay wants to put an I10K on his truck.
Out in the desert he could weld 20 foot of tower in the bed. LOL

F that, Jay's gonna make a pdl2 clone before he dick's with those portable
antennas..we already have that 10K stuff swinging in the breeze.

Right, J? hehehe

102" whip
 

Frank Gilliland wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 15:18:22 -0500, wrote in
:


I concur. A properly mounted 102 inch whip will and should perform
better than any loaded antenna.

In theory yes. In practice it may not. A 102" stainless steel whip can
be beat by some shorter (loaded) antennas.

Wrong. By it's very nature, a loaded antenna loses some power in the
loading coil and therefore is not as efficient as an antenna without
one. The only way a shorter antenna could outperform a full-length
1/4-wave whip is if it had some way to pull down the take-off angle.
So far, nobody has provided any theory or empirical evidence that any
such antenna exists, or is even possible.

The 102 is the best portable antenna you can buy, bottom line. (cheap too)

It takes a real CBer to drive around with one every day tho.

102" whip
 

102" whip
 

Steveo wrote:
F that, Jay's gonna make a pdl2 clone before he dick's with those
portable antennas..we already have that 10K stuff swinging in the breeze.

Right, J? hehehe

Hey Frank G, you're sharp enough to make a clone of that pdl II, improved
model! (the initial alum cost might be killer) :)

102" whip
 

Yet the X-terminator can beat a radio shack 102" SS whip.It's not that
the X-Terminator is so good. It's that the 102" SS whip is just bad
enough that the X-Terminator can beat it. In other words the radio
shack 102" SS whip is not ideal.
Do you have any hard test results to back up that claim? Has the
X-terminator been used on a side by side basis with a 102" whip on say
the Lockheed Martin ant test range or is it personal testing you have
conducted? Is it just the Rat Shack whip you are comparing it to or
other maunfacturers (like their is a helluva lot of them)?

You don't need a antenna test range to determine relative gains.
I can only confirm the antennas I have tested. The R-S 102"ss
and the Workman X-Terminator are two of them.

102" whip
 

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:49:29 -0500, wrote in
:


We've been through this before, tnom -- chrome-plated anything isn't
much better than stainless steel, and any difference isn't going to
make a lick of difference when length and loading are much more
significant. Even if the whip is sold by Radio Shaft. After all, the
design isn't very complicated.....

Yes, we have been through this before, and I never made a definitive
conclusion as to why I got the results I got.


Well, aren't you persistently making the claim that this antenna
you're selling is better than a 102" whip? I would call -that- a
definitive conclusion, wouldn't you?

Reading comprehension mistake on your part. Hint - the use of the word
"why"

False conclusion on your part. Hint - You believe I sell antennas.

Yes, we have been through this before and no one has ever done the
side by side comparison that would duplicate my results.


Ever think it's because bogus results can't be duplicated?

You would never know unless you'd try. Have you ever tried???

Yes, we have been through this before and will again because no one
will admit that the only way to find the truth is by a side by side
comparison.


I agree 100%. But once again, since nobody should take anyone else's
word on the subject, it requires a person to buy -both- antennas. Good
way to sell antennas to morons; bad way to sell antennas to people
with more than half a brain.

Now if you are willing to refund the purchase price and shipping if
your antenna doesn't meet or exceed the performance of a 102" whip, be
it SS or glass, then send me an order form. Otherwise, your sales
pitch is lame.


If you agree that a side by side comparison is best then why not
do it. I'll tell you the answer............ You'd rather argue with un
provable hypothesis than seek the real truth by your own
test.


Send me an antenna and I'll do the test. Well?






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102" whip
 

Send me an antenna and I'll do the test. Well?

Are you on welfare? I owe you nothing.

102" whip
 

102" whip
 

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:59:37 -0500, wrote in
:


I have always been up front and consistent with the specifics of this
discussion. If you think I'm back pedaling it is most likely caused by
your less than stellar reading comprehension.


Once again, you said "we should never trust the claim of others". But
after that backfired in your face you qualified it with, "but it is
easier to believe....." Correct me if I'm wrong here, but "never"
doesn't include "easier", does it?

Again your reading comprehension is flawed. The other poster said
never. I said "you don't have to believe me"


My reading comprehension is just fine:

======
On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 18:35:07 -0500, wrote in
:

snip
The only problem is that you never have put your 102" ss up against
the antenna I am speaking of, and we should never trust the claim of
others. You and me included.

======

It still astounds me that people such as you think the rest of us are
so dumb as to fall for your lame-brained fallacies. Well, we aren't.


What you really should do is make the comparison yourself. We would
never believe you, but at least you'd know the truth.


That would be the ideal scenario. However, it requires that I purchase
one of these antennas that you are selling, and I don't care to risk
my money on an antenna that purportedly defies the laws of physics
with only marginal benefits, especially when my 102" whip does the job
quite nicely and for a fraction of the cost. But you go right ahead
and preach your version of "the truth" and I'll keep preaching common
sense, ok?

Well, I once believed just as you do until I did take the time and
spent the money to check things out myself. Tell me, who went farther
to seek the truth?


Yet you can't account for the results. Looks like you didn't go far
enough.

I've suggested reasons for the results, but admitted that I don't have
a definitive conclusion as to WHY the results were as is,nor do I have
to in order to post the results.


What's the difference between that and peddling snake-oil?








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102" whip
 

You don't need a antenna test range to determine relative gains.
I can only confirm the antennas I have tested. The R-S 102"ss
and the Workman X-Terminator are two of them.

Maybe so but what would convince an operator who has never used either
to pick your choice of an ant over the other? Just because you said so?

No. I said you don't have to believe me. The best I can do is to hope
that someone's interest has been sparked enough so that they would
do the side by side test them self. No one has bothered, so no one can
do any better than hypothesize.

Nothing you have posted has proven the relative worth of an X-terminator
being a better ant than any 102" whip. General consesus on this board
claims the 102" whip is superior to anything else. Not saying you are an
agent for the X-terminator but where are the hard facts?

True, the general consensus is that I am wrong. Years ago the general
consensus was that the world was flat.

102" whip
 

Frank Gilliland wrote:
We've been through this before, tnom -- chrome-plated anything isn't
much better than stainless steel -snip-

Eh, one is plated and the other is solid. I like stainless for longevity.

102" whip
 

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:13:36 -0500, wrote in
:


Send me an antenna and I'll do the test. Well?

Are you on welfare? I owe you nothing.


I have no intention of keeping it -- I wouldn't -dare- drive around
town with that gawd-awful contraption on my truck. Rest assured I'll
send it back. So whaddya say?






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102" whip
 

102" whip
 

snip
The only problem is that you never have put your 102" ss up against
the antenna I am speaking of, and we should never trust the claim of
others. You and me included.

======

It still astounds me that people such as you think the rest of us are
so dumb as to fall for your lame-brained fallacies. Well, we aren't.

I stand corrected. You should never say never.


I've suggested reasons for the results, but admitted that I don't have
a definitive conclusion as to WHY the results were as is,nor do I have
to in order to post the results.


What's the difference between that and peddling snake-oil?

Because I admit that I am not sure of the reasons for the result but I
am sure of the result. I am not peddling anything other than the
truth. You don't have to buy it.

102" whip
 

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:28:29 -0500, wrote in
:


You don't need a antenna test range to determine relative gains.
I can only confirm the antennas I have tested. The R-S 102"ss
and the Workman X-Terminator are two of them.

Maybe so but what would convince an operator who has never used either
to pick your choice of an ant over the other? Just because you said so?

No. I said you don't have to believe me. The best I can do is to hope
that someone's interest has been sparked enough so that they would
do the side by side test them self. No one has bothered, so no one can
do any better than hypothesize.


======
On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 18:35:07 -0500, wrote in
:

snip
The only problem is that you never have put your 102" ss up against
the antenna I am speaking of, and we should never trust the claim of
others. You and me included.

======


Nothing you have posted has proven the relative worth of an X-terminator
being a better ant than any 102" whip. General consesus on this board
claims the 102" whip is superior to anything else. Not saying you are an
agent for the X-terminator but where are the hard facts?

True, the general consensus is that I am wrong. Years ago the general
consensus was that the world was flat.


http://www.miraclesart.com/







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102" whip
 

Send me an antenna and I'll do the test. Well?

Are you on welfare? I owe you nothing.


I have no intention of keeping it -- I wouldn't -dare- drive around
town with that gawd-awful contraption on my truck. Rest assured I'll
send it back. So whaddya say?

You have proven through the years to be less than honorable, so no,
I will make no attempt to loan you anything.

102" whip
 

On 28 Jan 2006 02:33:52 GMT, Steveo wrote:

wrote:
If you agree that a side by side comparison is best then why not
do it. I'll tell you the answer............ You'd rather argue with un
provable hypothesis than seek the real truth by your own
test.

Didn't you say something about 'let the flames begin' (paraphrasing) when
you first replied to this topic, Tnom, see what you started? lol

I said let the games begin

The discussion so far has been on subject, direct, controversial but
healthy. Much better than the normal topics out here.

102" whip
 

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:37:42 -0500, wrote in
:


Send me an antenna and I'll do the test. Well?

Are you on welfare? I owe you nothing.


I have no intention of keeping it -- I wouldn't -dare- drive around
town with that gawd-awful contraption on my truck. Rest assured I'll
send it back. So whaddya say?

You have proven through the years to be less than honorable, so no,
I will make no attempt to loan you anything.


How about I send you a deposit for the cost of the antenna, then when
I return it you send the deposit back? Any problem with that?







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102" whip
 

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:36:11 -0500, wrote in
:


snip
The only problem is that you never have put your 102" ss up against
the antenna I am speaking of, and we should never trust the claim of
others. You and me included.

======

It still astounds me that people such as you think the rest of us are
so dumb as to fall for your lame-brained fallacies. Well, we aren't.

I stand corrected. You should never say never.


No, -YOU- should never say never.


I've suggested reasons for the results, but admitted that I don't have
a definitive conclusion as to WHY the results were as is,nor do I have
to in order to post the results.


What's the difference between that and peddling snake-oil?

Because I admit that I am not sure of the reasons for the result but I
am sure of the result. I am not peddling anything other than the
truth. You don't have to buy it.


So the truth is that you have no idea why you got the results that you
did, correct?







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102" whip
 

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 18:44:56 -0800, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:37:42 -0500, wrote in
:


Send me an antenna and I'll do the test. Well?

Are you on welfare? I owe you nothing.


I have no intention of keeping it -- I wouldn't -dare- drive around
town with that gawd-awful contraption on my truck. Rest assured I'll
send it back. So whaddya say?

You have proven through the years to be less than honorable, so no,
I will make no attempt to loan you anything.


How about I send you a deposit for the cost of the antenna, then when
I return it you send the deposit back? Any problem with that?

No deal. If it is important to you then you would find a way to test
these antennas. I don't generally loan anything out.

102" whip
 

102" whip
 

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:49:03 -0500, wrote in
:

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 18:44:56 -0800, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:37:42 -0500, wrote in
:


Send me an antenna and I'll do the test. Well?

Are you on welfare? I owe you nothing.


I have no intention of keeping it -- I wouldn't -dare- drive around
town with that gawd-awful contraption on my truck. Rest assured I'll
send it back. So whaddya say?

You have proven through the years to be less than honorable, so no,
I will make no attempt to loan you anything.


How about I send you a deposit for the cost of the antenna, then when
I return it you send the deposit back? Any problem with that?

No deal. If it is important to you then you would find a way to test
these antennas. I don't generally loan anything out.


Okay, then how about this: I'll buy one of those antennas, and if it
doesn't perform as well or better than a 9' whip then you agree to buy
it from me for the price I paid plus shipping. After all, if the
antenna is as good as you say it is then you shouldn't have any
problem reselling it, right? So?






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102" whip
 

True, the general consensus is that I am wrong. Years ago the general
consensus was that the world was flat.
hehehe hopefully you found an ant that is better than the whip and you
will go down in the annals of history as another copernicus. cheers as
its getting late on the east coast.

It looks like I have to explain once again exactly what I am saying.

No shortened antenna can beat a full 1/4 wave length antenna of good
design. I have shown this in my tests. The X-Terminator can be beat by
a 1/4 wave length antenna, but with the same tests the X-Terminator
can beat the RS 102" ss whip.

102" whip
 

Okay, then how about this: I'll buy one of those antennas, and if it
doesn't perform as well or better than a 9' whip then you agree to buy
it from me for the price I paid plus shipping. After all, if the
antenna is as good as you say it is then you shouldn't have any
problem reselling it, right? So?

I said these posts have been direct. So I guess I'll continue.

I don't trust much of anything about you. NO

102" whip
 

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:59:11 -0500, wrote in
:


True, the general consensus is that I am wrong. Years ago the general
consensus was that the world was flat.
hehehe hopefully you found an ant that is better than the whip and you
will go down in the annals of history as another copernicus. cheers as
its getting late on the east coast.

It looks like I have to explain once again exactly what I am saying.

No shortened antenna can beat a full 1/4 wave length antenna of good
design. I have shown this in my tests. The X-Terminator can be beat by
a 1/4 wave length antenna, but with the same tests the X-Terminator
can beat the RS 102" ss whip.


Then how or why is the RS 102" whip a 'bad' design? Heck, it's just a
straight, single piece of steel rod with a little ball on the end,
just like every other SS whip, even the ones on cop cars. So what
makes RS whips so bad that their performance is worse than a 5' loaded
antenna? Or, if that's what you can't figure out, then what comprises
a "good" design for a 1/4-wave whip? Selling it at a different store?
I hope not, since those whips aren't exclusive to Radio Shaft -- the
store chain is only a distributor, not the manufacturer, and you can
be certain that the same whips have been sold under other brand names.
Have you tried any other brand name 102" whips?








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102" whip
 

No shortened antenna can beat a full 1/4 wave length antenna of good
design. I have shown this in my tests. The X-Terminator can be beat by
a 1/4 wave length antenna, but with the same tests the X-Terminator
can beat the RS 102" ss whip.


Then how or why is the RS 102" whip a 'bad' design?

It's secondary and arguable as to why it does what it does. All one
really has to know is what it does.

102" whip
 

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 22:03:37 -0500, wrote in
:


Okay, then how about this: I'll buy one of those antennas, and if it
doesn't perform as well or better than a 9' whip then you agree to buy
it from me for the price I paid plus shipping. After all, if the
antenna is as good as you say it is then you shouldn't have any
problem reselling it, right? So?

I said these posts have been direct. So I guess I'll continue.

I don't trust much of anything about you. NO


Well you sure don't seem too willing to put your money where your
mouth is...... are you so financially strapped that you can't afford
to take the risk on someone who has not only bought and sold radios in
this newsgroup without any complaints, but has also sent free parts to
some on occasion? Or is my identity so obscured that you think I'll
disappear into the shadows with your precious antenna, never to be
heard from again?

Naw, you're just making excuses because you are afraid of an objective
test of your antenna. I'm suprised you didn't try to pre-empt my offer
by suggesting that the results of any test I make will be biased, but
then again you are kinda slow.....

Final offer: You find someone in my area with one of your antennas and
we'll go test them up on the plains. The testing will be monitored by
your volunteer so there will be no doubt about the results. Then I'll
post the results in the newsgroup. How 'bout it, tnom?








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102" whip
 

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 22:14:46 -0500, wrote in
:


No shortened antenna can beat a full 1/4 wave length antenna of good
design. I have shown this in my tests. The X-Terminator can be beat by
a 1/4 wave length antenna, but with the same tests the X-Terminator
can beat the RS 102" ss whip.


Then how or why is the RS 102" whip a 'bad' design?

It's secondary and arguable as to why it does what it does. All one
really has to know is what it does.


But we only have your word on that, which seems to differ from the
word of everyone else in this group. But according to you, "we should
never trust the claim of others. You and me included." So dig right
into "secondary and arguable" since it doesn't matter anyway -- what
makes a Rat Shack whip such a bad design?







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102" whip
 

Okay, then how about this: I'll buy one of those antennas, and if it
doesn't perform as well or better than a 9' whip then you agree to buy
it from me for the price I paid plus shipping. After all, if the
antenna is as good as you say it is then you shouldn't have any
problem reselling it, right? So?

I said these posts have been direct. So I guess I'll continue.

I don't trust much of anything about you. NO


Well you sure don't seem too willing to put your money where your
mouth is......

I already did. I bought the antennas.

are you so financially strapped that you can't afford
to take the risk on someone who has not only bought and sold radios in
this newsgroup without any complaints, but has also sent free parts to
some on occasion?

Who's financially strapped?

Or is my identity so obscured that you think I'll
disappear into the shadows with your precious antenna, never to be
heard from again?

As you said " put your money where your mouth is...... "

Naw, you're just making excuses because you are afraid of an objective
test of your antenna. I'm suprised you didn't try to pre-empt my offer
by suggesting that the results of any test I make will be biased, but
then again you are kinda slow.....

A test coming from you would be suspect, but it doesn't matter because
you'll never do the test anyway.

Final offer: You find someone in my area with one of your antennas and
we'll go test them up on the plains. The testing will be monitored by
your volunteer so there will be no doubt about the results. Then I'll
post the results in the newsgroup. How 'bout it, tnom?

Final offer..........Put your money where your mouth is. Oh, I
forgot. You are financially strapped.

102" whip
 

It's secondary and arguable as to why it does what it does. All one
really has to know is what it does.


But we only have your word on that, which seems to differ from the
word of everyone else in this group.

What's my word based on? A test. What's your word based on?
Consensus?

But according to you, "we should
never trust the claim of others. You and me included."

No, I have corrected what I said and have repeatedly said you don't
have to believe me.

So dig right
into "secondary and arguable" since it doesn't matter anyway -- what
makes a Rat Shack whip such a bad design?

I don't care what makes it bad. Do the test then you can hypothesize
as to why it didn't perform.

102" whip
 

"Steveo" wrote in message
...
"DrDeath" wrote:
"Big Rich Soprano" wrote in message
...
Mounted properly the 102" is king.


King of what?


King of beers?

That would be Budweiser!

Hiccup, nope that's rolling rock!

I grew up 4 blocks from the brewery. Augie owned St.Louis. We had weird laws
that said to sell your beer in StL you have to brew it in StL.

102" whip
 

wrote in message
...

Power handling aside the 102" stainless steel whip is a good antenna
but can be marginally beat by other shorter antennas. These shorter
antennas tend to consist of large diameter antenna stock made of brass
or copper usually with a chrome plating. They also are center loaded
with a large diameter air gapped coil.. One such antenna, and I'm sure
there are others, is the X-terminator at about five foot tall.

I've never used that brand before, but have used many other base and
center
loaded units. You certainly can't count on manufactures claims of their
products performance. I'll put my 102" up against any I have used in the
past any day of the week. Nobody in my town can out talk me on the mobile.


You made two statements that need to be examined

1. Never trust manufacturers claims (or individuals)

2. You put your 102" up against others.

The only problem is that you never have put your 102" ss up against
the antenna I am speaking of, and we should never trust the claim of
others. You and me included.

So how do YOU find the truth? You must make a side by side comparison
as I have. Any claims based on anything less than that is just a waste
of discussion.

I agree.

102" whip
 

"Steveo" wrote in message
...
"DrDeath" wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:10:41 -0600, "DrDeath"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..

Let the games begin.

Mounted properly the 102" is king.

King of what?


Of mobile antennas of course. Unless your participating in a keydown
and need some oil cooled coil, you will get the best results with a
102" and they are good (most of them) to 1kw.

You will get good results but not necessarily the best results.

How so? Give me an example. Unless Jay wants to put an I10K on his truck.
Out in the desert he could weld 20 foot of tower in the bed. LOL

F that, Jay's gonna make a pdl2 clone before he dick's with those portable
antennas..we already have that 10K stuff swinging in the breeze.

Right, J? hehehe

I'd like to see a well made PDL2 on the market.

102" whip
 

"Steveo" wrote in message
...
"DrDeath" wrote:
"Steveo" wrote in message
Snipped

The 102" rocks, except for its tree pruning and over-hang scraping
qualities..oh and it's a bit on the odious side appearance wise. I have
that mount and a Wilson 1000 on one of my trucks, I rarely put the 102"
on because of the noise it makes banging off of things, and it's
somewhat directional mounted on the step bumper. (good dx shooter)

The Wilson 1000 mag mount is hard to beat for most practical
applications.

I have mine mounted in the center of my truck box, puts it pretty close
to center. I have to tie down for the drive through.

The 102?

Yup, drilled 4 holes in the back side in the center of the box and covered
it with silicone and used a mirror mount. But with the 4 inch lift and the
big mudders I had to tie it down to go through the drive through the car
wash has a truck bay so no problems there. Mind you this is not my daily
driver, not at 8mpg.

102" whip
 

"DrDeath" wrote:
"Steveo" wrote in message
...
"DrDeath" wrote:
"Big Rich Soprano" wrote in message
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Mounted properly the 102" is king.


King of what?


King of beers?

That would be Budweiser!

Hiccup, nope that's rolling rock!

I grew up 4 blocks from the brewery. Augie owned St.Louis. We had weird
laws that said to sell your beer in StL you have to brew it in StL.

Cool. I was born next to a coal mine in Beckly West Virginia in 1960! :)

I

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102" whip
 

"DrDeath" wrote:
"Steveo" wrote in message
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"DrDeath" wrote:
"Steveo" wrote in message
Snipped

The 102" rocks, except for its tree pruning and over-hang scraping
qualities..oh and it's a bit on the odious side appearance wise. I
have that mount and a Wilson 1000 on one of my trucks, I rarely put
the 102" on because of the noise it makes banging off of things, and
it's somewhat directional mounted on the step bumper. (good dx
shooter)

The Wilson 1000 mag mount is hard to beat for most practical
applications.

I have mine mounted in the center of my truck box, puts it pretty
close to center. I have to tie down for the drive through.

The 102?

Yup, drilled 4 holes in the back side in the center of the box and
covered it with silicone and used a mirror mount. But with the 4 inch
lift and the big mudders I had to tie it down to go through the drive
through the car wash has a truck bay so no problems there. Mind you this
is not my daily driver, not at 8mpg.

So it sorta looked like Mayberry Andy's antenna? nip it. :)

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102" whip
 

wrote in message
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True, the general consensus is that I am wrong. Years ago the general
consensus was that the world was flat.
hehehe hopefully you found an ant that is better than the whip and you
will go down in the annals of history as another copernicus. cheers as
its getting late on the east coast.

It looks like I have to explain once again exactly what I am saying.

No shortened antenna can beat a full 1/4 wave length antenna of good
design. I have shown this in my tests. The X-Terminator can be beat by
a 1/4 wave length antenna, but with the same tests the X-Terminator
can beat the RS 102" ss whip.

No, you stated that you only tested it against a RS 102". You never stated
"No shortened antenna can beat a full 1/4 wave length antenna of good
design" until this post.

102" whip
 

"Steveo" wrote in message
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Frank Gilliland wrote:
We've been through this before, tnom -- chrome-plated anything isn't
much better than stainless steel -snip-

Eh, one is plated and the other is solid. I like stainless for longevity.

You got that right.