Charles Brabham wrote:

APRS was developed as a packet radio "killer application" by folks
associated with TAPR in the US.

The idea is to kill any interest in packet by eliminating its most
interesting and useful features, substituting a pointless internet-dependent
activity sure to put just about anyone to sleep.

APRS fits TAPR's ideal of a "killer application" perfectly - It kills off
all interest in the hobby. The more TNC's they can talk hams into tying up
so they can report thier house's position on the internet, the less will be
used for communicating as hams or doing anything else that may be
interesting or useful.

In the US, tying up equipment to do APRS has taken the place of astrology,
numerology, or socialism a quick ( lack of ) intelligence test.

Charles, N5PVL



Are you high?

Well, these folks are. Sorta. From 2003:
http://www.arrl-al.org/balloon_chase2.htm

We had another successful launch last week. The balloon reached
94,000ft. It transmitted aprs, id, position, altitude, and other data on
2 meters. It transmitted video at 434.000MHz from a downward-facing
mini-camera. We chased it from Huntsalulu to the AL-GA border north of
Mentone, monitoring *direct* APRS signals at 144.39 and 144.34. Also
used an ad hoc rolling network of chase cars at 146.52 and other simplex
frequencies. In short, this activity used just about every vhf trick in
the bag 'cept weak signal techniques.

It was a blast. Even the farmer who was bushhogging when it came down on
his pasture was ultra cool. He gave us a ride to the recovery site and
acted like things fall on his farm from near space every day. Ho hum.

Oh, and the only internet activity was back at the launch site, where we
were tracked on a map on a internet-connected laptop.

http://www.unclaimedmysteries.net/uah_balloon.php

73 Corry K4DOH
--
It Came From C. L. Smith's Unclaimed Mysteries.
http://www.unclaimedmysteries.net

T. Boozer wrote in rolltidefan.net: "That dude that took the picture,
Corry Smith, is a bigtime aubie. Notice he named the pic
'BRIANDENNEHYstadium' Screw him!"

"Charles Brabham" wrote

APRS fits TAPR's ideal of a "killer application" perfectly - It
kills off
all interest in the hobby. The more TNC's they can talk hams into
tying up
so they can report thier house's position on the internet, the less
will be
used for communicating as hams or doing anything else that may be
interesting or useful.

Charles, that may be to case in the US, but here in England, it was
the RSGB that killed off packet radio.

The Radio Society of GB had this odd idea that reducing the channel
spacing was needed because the commercial radio used closer channel
spacing than ham radio.

So now instead of 77 (of 80) channels mostly unused we have 158 (of
160) channels mostly unused.

Because a narrow channel requires less deviation, we all had to reduce
our deviation. This reduced the range of signals, such that the one
to one live activity that we enjoyed stopped within a very short time
as our signals could not be heard.

At least APRS has increased activity on VHF here. However I agree
that internet connections would appear to be more important for some
folk.

Reg, G4ENS

"Reg" wrote in message
...
"Charles Brabham" wrote

APRS fits TAPR's ideal of a "killer application" perfectly - It
kills off all interest in the hobby.

Charles, that may be to case in the US, but here in England, it was
the RSGB that killed off packet radio.

Our ARRL did nothing to damage the Packet hobby - and nothing to help it
either. It was a secondary organization, TAPR, which was the main problem on
this side of the pond. The irony here is that TAPR was allegedly supposed to
support packet radio and it did - until a clique of internet junkies took
the organization over in the late 1980's. The non-ham types have since
discredited TAPR and had the organization to the point where last year, they
hired a fellow to examine the organization in order to determine what it
might be good for. - The report was inconclusive.

I could have saved them a little money on that one... I could have told them
that TAPR was of dubious value for free.

The Radio Society of GB had this odd idea that reducing the channel
spacing was needed because the commercial radio used closer channel
spacing than ham radio.

Yes, it's amazing how amateurs are supposed to innovate, and do new things -
but there is a large group of halfwits who judge the hobby's worth and state
of the art by how closely it resembles commercial stuff that has nothing to
do with amateur radio. The TAPR halfwits disparage any aspect of amateur
radio which does not resemble the familiar internet.

Judging by your experience with RSGB and our experience with TAPR, it should
be plain (except to halfwits of course) that instead of trying to emulate
existing systems, amateurs should be experimenting with new and different
ideas that the commercial outfits may someday emulate.

The commercial outfits supposed to be following our lead as they have many
times in the past - and not the other way around. The RSGB and TAPR folks
being discussed are the worst kind of Luddites, in this respect. Because of
their destructive ignorance, these people have no place in the hobby. We
would be much better off without them.

At least APRS has increased activity on VHF here. However I agree
that internet connections would appear to be more important for some
folk.

It's what they know.

Charles, N5PVL

"Reg" wrote in message
...
"Charles Brabham" wrote

APRS fits TAPR's ideal of a "killer application" perfectly - It
kills off all interest in the hobby.

Charles, that may be to case in the US, but here in England, it was
the RSGB that killed off packet radio.

Our ARRL did nothing to damage the Packet hobby - and nothing to help it
either. It was a secondary organization, TAPR, which was the main problem on
this side of the pond. The irony here is that TAPR was allegedly supposed to
support packet radio and it did - until a clique of internet junkies took
the organization over in the late 1980's. The non-ham types have since
discredited TAPR and had the organization to the point where last year, they
hired a fellow to examine the organization in order to determine what it
might be good for. - The report was inconclusive.

I could have saved them a little money on that one... I could have told them
that TAPR was of dubious value for free.

The Radio Society of GB had this odd idea that reducing the channel
spacing was needed because the commercial radio used closer channel
spacing than ham radio.

Yes, it's amazing how amateurs are supposed to innovate, and do new things -
but there is a large group of halfwits who judge the hobby's worth and state
of the art by how closely it resembles commercial stuff that has nothing to
do with amateur radio. The TAPR halfwits disparage any aspect of amateur
radio which does not resemble the familiar internet.

Judging by your experience with RSGB and our experience with TAPR, it should
be plain (except to halfwits of course) that instead of trying to emulate
existing systems, amateurs should be experimenting with new and different
ideas that the commercial outfits may someday emulate.

The commercial outfits supposed to be following our lead as they have many
times in the past - and not the other way around. The RSGB and TAPR folks
being discussed are the worst kind of Luddites, in this respect. Because of
their destructive ignorance, these people have no place in the hobby. We
would be much better off without them.

At least APRS has increased activity on VHF here. However I agree
that internet connections would appear to be more important for some
folk.

It's what they know.

Charles, N5PVL

Charles Brabham wrote:

APRS was developed as a packet radio "killer application" by folks
associated with TAPR in the US.

The idea is to kill any interest in packet by eliminating its most
interesting and useful features, substituting a pointless
internet-dependent activity sure to put just about anyone to sleep....

I don't see why one person's dislike for a particular use of a couple
frequencies should be grounds for such an attack. Hams do lots of different
things, which is one of the attractions of the hobby. I have no real
interest in APRS, but if others find it amusing to hook three or more
different kinds of technology together to do something, why not? It is no
more pointless than DX or moonbounce or QRP or dozens of other ham
activities. If some people are having fun and learning a few things, more
power to them, except the QRP crowd, of of course. N5PVL needs to get
himself a hobby.

John, WA9FCH

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 02:55:30 GMT, John McHarry wrote:
Charles Brabham wrote:

APRS was developed as a packet radio "killer application" by folks
associated with TAPR in the US.

The idea is to kill any interest in packet by eliminating its most
interesting and useful features, substituting a pointless
internet-dependent activity sure to put just about anyone to sleep....

I don't see why one person's dislike for a particular use of a couple
frequencies should be grounds for such an attack. Hams do lots of different
things, which is one of the attractions of the hobby. I have no real
interest in APRS, but if others find it amusing to hook three or more
different kinds of technology together to do something, why not? It is no
more pointless than DX or moonbounce or QRP or dozens of other ham
activities. If some people are having fun and learning a few things, more
power to them, except the QRP crowd, of of course. N5PVL needs to get
himself a hobby.

Just ignore Charles. Every now and then he'll get up and
start screeching about how this, that, and the other thing
has "killed packet", occasionally try to drive people to look
at his website ( When was that thing last updated? 1998? ),
and then sit back and try to abuse anyone who responds to him.

Almost makes me wonder what ever happened to Burt Fisher....

"Here to there" - a nameless, no-callsign troll -
wrote in message
...
Charles Brabham wrote:

APRS was developed as a packet radio "killer application" by folks
associated with TAPR in the US.

The idea is to kill any interest in packet by eliminating its most
interesting and useful features, substituting a pointless
internet-dependent activity sure to put just about anyone to sleep....


Just ignore Charles. Every now and then he'll get up and
start screeching about how this, that, and the other thing
has "killed packet", occasionally try to drive people to look
at his website ( When was that thing last updated? 1998? ),

The web site was created in 2002, Einstein, and last updated three days ago.
There was a major re-write six months or so ago.

You can check it out (obviously you need to) at: http://www.uspacket.org

and then sit back and try to abuse anyone who responds to him.

Just the morons and nameless no-callsign trolls, such as yourself.

I'm friendly with everybody else, and will not apologize for stepping on
toes that were made to be stepped on. - such as yours.

Almost makes me wonder what ever happened to Burt Fisher....

Is he the new president at TAPR? That would fit like a glove...
BWAHAHAHAHAWR!

Charles, N5PVL

"Here to there" - a nameless, no-callsign troll -
wrote in message
...
Charles Brabham wrote:

APRS was developed as a packet radio "killer application" by folks
associated with TAPR in the US.

The idea is to kill any interest in packet by eliminating its most
interesting and useful features, substituting a pointless
internet-dependent activity sure to put just about anyone to sleep....


Just ignore Charles. Every now and then he'll get up and
start screeching about how this, that, and the other thing
has "killed packet", occasionally try to drive people to look
at his website ( When was that thing last updated? 1998? ),

The web site was created in 2002, Einstein, and last updated three days ago.
There was a major re-write six months or so ago.

You can check it out (obviously you need to) at: http://www.uspacket.org

and then sit back and try to abuse anyone who responds to him.

Just the morons and nameless no-callsign trolls, such as yourself.

I'm friendly with everybody else, and will not apologize for stepping on
toes that were made to be stepped on. - such as yours.

Almost makes me wonder what ever happened to Burt Fisher....

Is he the new president at TAPR? That would fit like a glove...
BWAHAHAHAHAWR!

Charles, N5PVL

"John McHarry" wrote in message
ink.net...
Charles Brabham wrote:

APRS was developed as a packet radio "killer application" by folks
associated with TAPR in the US.

The idea is to kill any interest in packet by eliminating its most
interesting and useful features, substituting a pointless
internet-dependent activity sure to put just about anyone to sleep....

I don't see why one person's dislike for a particular use of a couple
frequencies should be grounds for such an attack.

I looked back at my post, and did not see any reference to "a particular use
of a couple frequencies ", or any attack of any kind.

Do you have any response to what I actually said? - Or will you just put
words in other people's mouths and then answer them, effectively debating
with yourself?

Hams do lots of different
things, which is one of the attractions of the hobby. I have no real
interest in APRS, but if others find it amusing to hook three or more
different kinds of technology together to do something, why not?

I don't know... Since you have brought up the question of somehow "not
allowing APRS", perhaps you can answer yourself. - Again.

It is no
more pointless than DX or moonbounce or QRP or dozens of other ham
activities. If some people are having fun and learning a few things, more
power to them, except the QRP crowd, of of course.

That's your opinion, and you are welcome to it. My opinion is that ARPS is
pointless, but that "DX or moonbounce or QRP or dozens of other ham
activities" are not. The "ham activities" you mention are legitimate
applications of amateur radio.

N5PVL needs to get himself a hobby.

I have a hobby.. It's called Amateur Radio, not Amateur Telephone. We
amateur radio operators are funny, in that we try to see what can be done
with radio.

Try it out sometime.

Charles, N5PVL

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 02:55:30 GMT, John McHarry wrote:
Charles Brabham wrote:

APRS was developed as a packet radio "killer application" by folks
associated with TAPR in the US.

The idea is to kill any interest in packet by eliminating its most
interesting and useful features, substituting a pointless
internet-dependent activity sure to put just about anyone to sleep....

I don't see why one person's dislike for a particular use of a couple
frequencies should be grounds for such an attack. Hams do lots of different
things, which is one of the attractions of the hobby. I have no real
interest in APRS, but if others find it amusing to hook three or more
different kinds of technology together to do something, why not? It is no
more pointless than DX or moonbounce or QRP or dozens of other ham
activities. If some people are having fun and learning a few things, more
power to them, except the QRP crowd, of of course. N5PVL needs to get
himself a hobby.

Just ignore Charles. Every now and then he'll get up and
start screeching about how this, that, and the other thing
has "killed packet", occasionally try to drive people to look
at his website ( When was that thing last updated? 1998? ),
and then sit back and try to abuse anyone who responds to him.

Almost makes me wonder what ever happened to Burt Fisher....