I know the proposed BPL system uses frequencies from 2-80 MHz
and I belive it uses spread spectrum. Does it have to use
every possible freq in that range or could it skip the ham
bands if we kick up enough fuss?

It seems pretty clear to me that it will happen - 150,000 hams
are outnumbered by more than 100:1 by those who want broadband
delivered to the doorstep.

Not only do I think it will happen, but I also expect the RFI
levels to be "adjusted" so as to allow more pollution - hey,
it works for greenhouse gas and power plants and......

Derek aa5bt

"Derek Wills" wrote in message
...
I know the proposed BPL system uses frequencies from 2-80 MHz
and I belive it uses spread spectrum. Does it have to use
every possible freq in that range or could it skip the ham
bands if we kick up enough fuss?

I'm guessing it will make enough of a mess that harmonics will
also be a problem.

It seems pretty clear to me that it will happen - 150,000 hams
are outnumbered by more than 100:1 by those who want broadband
delivered to the doorstep.

You make the assumption that BPL will actually deliver broadband!
It is one of the stupidest proposals I've seen.

Not only do I think it will happen, but I also expect the RFI
levels to be "adjusted" so as to allow more pollution - hey,
it works for greenhouse gas and power plants and......

Exactly.

"Gee, we need more signal to get the bandwidth we need."
"Those hams are causing interference to our network, get them off air."

Derek aa5bt


--

... Hank

Hank: http://horedson.home.att.net
W0RLI: http://w0rli.home.att.net

Hank Oredson wrote:
It seems pretty clear to me that it will happen - 150,000 hams
are outnumbered by more than 100:1 by those who want broadband
delivered to the doorstep.


You make the assumption that BPL will actually deliver broadband!
It is one of the stupidest proposals I've seen.

That, and most of the people who are willing to pay the price for
broadband already have it.

It's my understanding that BPL has already failed financially in Germany
and early plans for deployment in the U.K. seem to have slowed down
substantially. I'm of the sense that both cable and DSL are far more
common in the U.S. than in Europe - that if BPL couldn't make a go of it
in Europe where comparatively few consumers already have a competing
technology, then it's even less likely to work (financially) in the U.S.
where the competition does have a solid head start.

My fear...

is that the power companies really aren't all that interested in
providing broadband internet. They're tired of being cited for leaky
insulators and want to get the Part 15 limits raised so they don't have
to bother fixing them.

================================================== =======================
I note with interest they're talking about using frequencies as high as
80MHz. All three major TV network affiliates here are on low-band VHF
channels 2, 4, and 5. An S6 signal in the 54-82MHz band will cause
harmful interference to all three stations. And the digital TV
conversion won't solve the problem - the CBS station's digital
assignment is 56 which means they're going to be back on channel 5 -
76-82MHz - at the end of transition. Judging from how ATSC digital TV
deals with impulse noise, I suspect an S6 BPL signal in TV channel 5
will make digital reception on that channel impossible.

Channels 2, 4, and 5 are used for major stations in Boston, NYC,
Chicago, Detroit, San Francisco, Seattle, Los Angeles, Dallas, and many
other smaller cities. National Association of Broadcasters vs. the
electric power industry. Could be an interesting battle.

(I wonder what an S6 BPL signal at 49MHz would do to a baby monitor?)
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 14:33:54 GMT, Doug Smith W9WI
wrote:

That, and most of the people who are willing to pay the price for
broadband already have it.

I think that's probably a bad guess. To get DSL service, you have
to be within x amount of distance from the phone company switch.
To get cable access, you have to have cable TV......

In the area I'm in, there are thousands of homes with no DSL
availability, and no cable TV service. And since the cable TV
service in this area is so bad, people who could have cable TV
are using satellite TV instead, as are those who are outside the
cable coverage area.

So in this area there are plenty of potential customers for some
sort of broadband service. Not that BPL is the answer, or a good
idea, I just wouldn't bank on the assumption that everybody who
wants broadband already has it.......

Not to mention the fact that if there was ho market for it the
people who are pushing it/testing it probably wouldn't be doing so.

73, Jim KH2D

wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 14:33:54 GMT, Doug Smith W9WI
wrote:

That, and most of the people who are willing to pay the price for
broadband already have it.

I think that's probably a bad guess. To get DSL service, you have
to be within x amount of distance from the phone company switch.
To get cable access, you have to have cable TV......

In the area I'm in, there are thousands of homes with no DSL
availability, and no cable TV service. And since the cable TV
service in this area is so bad, people who could have cable TV
are using satellite TV instead, as are those who are outside the
cable coverage area.

So in this area there are plenty of potential customers for some
sort of broadband service. Not that BPL is the answer, or a good
idea, I just wouldn't bank on the assumption that everybody who
wants broadband already has it.......

Not to mention the fact that if there was ho market for it the
people who are pushing it/testing it probably wouldn't be doing so.

73, Jim KH2D


The power companies haven't really looked at the investment to make it
happen. They have just looked at the size of the potential market. I
recently saw an article where a financial adviser discusses this very issue.
The power companies actually propose this every few years and then find it
to be too large an investment. I hope that is true now too.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

The power companies actually propose this every few years and
then find it to be too large an investment. I hope that is
true now too.

Regardless, the FCC is pretty certainly going to encourage
it as much as possible. Katherine Abernathy, the FCC
commisioner who gave the "BPL is Nirvana" speech recently,
used to work for "Broadband Office Communications", for a
start...

It will be a sad day if it comes about with no protection
for the HF spectrum users. We've worried for a long time
that someone would like to take our freqs away from us for
their own use, but to use the HF spectrum as a garbage can
is even worse.

Perhaps we should start a rumor that it will be easy to
decode people's keystrokes by listening to the power lines?
Or better yet, perhaps it will be. Don't tell Ashcroft...

Derek aa5bt

The power companies actually propose this every few years and
then find it to be too large an investment. I hope that is
true now too.

Regardless, the FCC is pretty certainly going to encourage
it as much as possible. Katherine Abernathy, the FCC
commisioner who gave the "BPL is Nirvana" speech recently,
used to work for "Broadband Office Communications", for a
start...

It will be a sad day if it comes about with no protection
for the HF spectrum users. We've worried for a long time
that someone would like to take our freqs away from us for
their own use, but to use the HF spectrum as a garbage can
is even worse.

Perhaps we should start a rumor that it will be easy to
decode people's keystrokes by listening to the power lines?
Or better yet, perhaps it will be. Don't tell Ashcroft...

Derek aa5bt

wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 14:33:54 GMT, Doug Smith W9WI
wrote:

That, and most of the people who are willing to pay the price for
broadband already have it.

I think that's probably a bad guess. To get DSL service, you have
to be within x amount of distance from the phone company switch.
To get cable access, you have to have cable TV......

In the area I'm in, there are thousands of homes with no DSL
availability, and no cable TV service. And since the cable TV
service in this area is so bad, people who could have cable TV
are using satellite TV instead, as are those who are outside the
cable coverage area.

So in this area there are plenty of potential customers for some
sort of broadband service. Not that BPL is the answer, or a good
idea, I just wouldn't bank on the assumption that everybody who
wants broadband already has it.......

Not to mention the fact that if there was ho market for it the
people who are pushing it/testing it probably wouldn't be doing so.

73, Jim KH2D


The power companies haven't really looked at the investment to make it
happen. They have just looked at the size of the potential market. I
recently saw an article where a financial adviser discusses this very issue.
The power companies actually propose this every few years and then find it
to be too large an investment. I hope that is true now too.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Doug Smith W9WI" wrote in message
...
My fear...

is that the power companies really aren't all that interested in
providing broadband internet. They're tired of being cited for leaky
insulators and want to get the Part 15 limits raised so they don't have
to bother fixing them.


Even if the limits are raised, the rules will still not permit them to
interfere with licensed services such as commercial broadcasting and amateur
radio even if their emissions are within limits. They would have to change
that provision also.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Even if the limits are raised, the rules will still not permit them to
interfere with licensed services such as commercial broadcasting and amateur
radio even if their emissions are within limits. They would have to change
that provision also.

You think they wouldn't change it?? How much commerical
broadcasting goes on between 2-80 MHz? Is it a coincidence
that the AM band stops just below 2 MHz and the FM one starts
just above 80 MHz?

Just imagine all the world's DXers being crowded into the
160m band - yikes!

Derek aa5bt