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I posted something similar to this in a different newsgroup, but I wonder if
based on the logic that the interference could also affect other services such as emergency services, aircraft frequencies, and even military frequency allocations, it would seem to me to be important to persuade those groups to pressure the FCC against the whole BPL thing..... -- Ryan, KC8PMX FF1-FF2-MFR-(pending NREMT-B!) --. --- -.. ... .- -. --. . .-.. ... .- .-. . ..-. .. .-. . ..-. ... --. .... - . .-. ... "recalcitrant ham op" wrote in message ... "opcom" wrote in message ... This was posted to ARLI, I don't know how many subscribe, but in spite of the numerous comments against BPL (transmitting wideband internet data over power lines, which will destroy the HF radio spectrum), the FCC seems disposed to encourage it anyway. evil! evil! just look up BPL on the web. T the noise from the radiated signals trashed the ham bands thoroughly. I guess you never heard that money talks and bull**** walks eh? Did you *REALLY THINK* that a couple hundred aging HF operating tightwad ham radio operators are going to stop an emerging technology that will conceivably network home appliances to the internet and be worth $BILLIONS$ in potential revenue ?? Jeezehus-H-christ...get F-N real !! |
"Frank Dresser" wrote in message ... "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message link.net... Sure we will. All we need to is put up KW level beacon stations. End of BPL. Dan/W4NTI Why would that end BPL? Frank Dresser The transmission lines are radiators. As such they will also receive. Power lines are right up next to the rigs. The RF from the radios will trash the BPL. Probably by causing drop outs and adding lots of extra delays. Basically it will make BPL useless anywhere near a ham station. Dan/W4NTI |
"Frank Dresser" wrote in message ... "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message link.net... Sure we will. All we need to is put up KW level beacon stations. End of BPL. Dan/W4NTI Why would that end BPL? Frank Dresser The transmission lines are radiators. As such they will also receive. Power lines are right up next to the rigs. The RF from the radios will trash the BPL. Probably by causing drop outs and adding lots of extra delays. Basically it will make BPL useless anywhere near a ham station. Dan/W4NTI |
"Dick Carroll" wrote in message ... Frank Dresser wrote: "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message link.net... Sure we will. All we need to is put up KW level beacon stations. End of BPL. Dan/W4NTI Why would that end BPL? Frank Dresser It would more likely end the legality of 1kw for hams. Dick It probably wont take a KW to trash BPL. Just needed to communicate on HF. Dan/W4NTI |
"Dick Carroll" wrote in message ... Frank Dresser wrote: "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message link.net... Sure we will. All we need to is put up KW level beacon stations. End of BPL. Dan/W4NTI Why would that end BPL? Frank Dresser It would more likely end the legality of 1kw for hams. Dick It probably wont take a KW to trash BPL. Just needed to communicate on HF. Dan/W4NTI |
"Frank Todd K3EKO" wrote in message news:M7Mcb.579252$YN5.415635@sccrnsc01... Dan/W4NTI wrote: "Keith" wrote in message nk.net... On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:31:17 GMT, opcom in wrote: What have you done for Amateur Radio today? --^^--------------------------------------------------------------- The question is what has the ARRL done to the future of Ham Radio by hanging on to the Morse Code Requirement? It has killed it. -- Best Regards, Keith http://kilowatt-radio.org/ ========================================== = http://slrn.org SLRN 0.9.8.0 is out. ======================================= You really are a dumbass ain't ya Kieth? Tell me, in you apparantly drug clouded brain. How BPL and CW have anything to do with each other? Oh never mind. You ain't worth reading anylonger. Dan/W4NTI Keith, Just ignore Dan. Everyone in his mind is a DUMBASS. the only one who is perfect is HIM, PERIOD. -- 73 Frank K3EKO Gotta give ya credit Franky me boy....when your right, your right. But I don't think everyone is a dumbass. Just the people I call dumbass...like you and Keith. Dan/W4NTI |
"Frank Todd K3EKO" wrote in message news:M7Mcb.579252$YN5.415635@sccrnsc01... Dan/W4NTI wrote: "Keith" wrote in message nk.net... On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:31:17 GMT, opcom in wrote: What have you done for Amateur Radio today? --^^--------------------------------------------------------------- The question is what has the ARRL done to the future of Ham Radio by hanging on to the Morse Code Requirement? It has killed it. -- Best Regards, Keith http://kilowatt-radio.org/ ========================================== = http://slrn.org SLRN 0.9.8.0 is out. ======================================= You really are a dumbass ain't ya Kieth? Tell me, in you apparantly drug clouded brain. How BPL and CW have anything to do with each other? Oh never mind. You ain't worth reading anylonger. Dan/W4NTI Keith, Just ignore Dan. Everyone in his mind is a DUMBASS. the only one who is perfect is HIM, PERIOD. -- 73 Frank K3EKO Gotta give ya credit Franky me boy....when your right, your right. But I don't think everyone is a dumbass. Just the people I call dumbass...like you and Keith. Dan/W4NTI |
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message link.net... The transmission lines are radiators. As such they will also receive. Power lines are right up next to the rigs. The RF from the radios will trash the BPL. Probably by causing drop outs and adding lots of extra delays. Basically it will make BPL useless anywhere near a ham station. Dan/W4NTI OK, let's say it does slow or even stop BPL near a ham station. Why wouldn't the FCC restrict amatuer operations around BPL areas? Frank Dresser |
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message link.net... The transmission lines are radiators. As such they will also receive. Power lines are right up next to the rigs. The RF from the radios will trash the BPL. Probably by causing drop outs and adding lots of extra delays. Basically it will make BPL useless anywhere near a ham station. Dan/W4NTI OK, let's say it does slow or even stop BPL near a ham station. Why wouldn't the FCC restrict amatuer operations around BPL areas? Frank Dresser |
OK, let's say it does slow or even stop BPL near a ham station. Why wouldn't the FCC restrict amatuer operations around BPL areas? Hmmm. That would be real interesting. The FCC restricting the use of lawfully licensed transmitters in order to accomodate Part15 unlicensed operations of incidental radiators..... Ed WB6SAT |
OK, let's say it does slow or even stop BPL near a ham station. Why wouldn't the FCC restrict amatuer operations around BPL areas? Hmmm. That would be real interesting. The FCC restricting the use of lawfully licensed transmitters in order to accomodate Part15 unlicensed operations of incidental radiators..... Ed WB6SAT |
Ed G. wrote:
OK, let's say it does slow or even stop BPL near a ham station. Why wouldn't the FCC restrict amatuer operations around BPL areas? Hmmm. That would be real interesting. The FCC restricting the use of lawfully licensed transmitters in order to accomodate Part15 unlicensed operations of incidental radiators..... Ed WB6SAT They'll modify the rules so it fits their agenda. remember, the FCC will do anything that can make them $$$$ for the US Treasury. 73 Frank K3EKO |
Ed G. wrote:
OK, let's say it does slow or even stop BPL near a ham station. Why wouldn't the FCC restrict amatuer operations around BPL areas? Hmmm. That would be real interesting. The FCC restricting the use of lawfully licensed transmitters in order to accomodate Part15 unlicensed operations of incidental radiators..... Ed WB6SAT They'll modify the rules so it fits their agenda. remember, the FCC will do anything that can make them $$$$ for the US Treasury. 73 Frank K3EKO |
"Ed G." wrote in message . .. Hmmm. That would be real interesting. The FCC restricting the use of lawfully licensed transmitters in order to accomodate Part15 unlicensed operations of incidental radiators..... Ed WB6SAT Uh huh. The BPL folk have important freinds at the FCC. Do the hams? If so, why has this BPL thing gone this far? Frank Dresser |
"Ed G." wrote in message . .. Hmmm. That would be real interesting. The FCC restricting the use of lawfully licensed transmitters in order to accomodate Part15 unlicensed operations of incidental radiators..... Ed WB6SAT Uh huh. The BPL folk have important freinds at the FCC. Do the hams? If so, why has this BPL thing gone this far? Frank Dresser |
"Frank Dresser" wrote in message ... "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message link.net... The transmission lines are radiators. As such they will also receive. Power lines are right up next to the rigs. The RF from the radios will trash the BPL. Probably by causing drop outs and adding lots of extra delays. Basically it will make BPL useless anywhere near a ham station. Dan/W4NTI OK, let's say it does slow or even stop BPL near a ham station. Why wouldn't the FCC restrict amatuer operations around BPL areas? Frank Dresser Well, hopefully, they can still read their own rules and regulations there at the FCC. You see we are the authorized legal service. And BPL is the unlicensed part 15 activity. Part 15 devices must accept interference from the licensed users. Hams. Course again, we are dealing with lawyers. So anything goes. Dan/W4NTI |
"Frank Dresser" wrote in message ... "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message link.net... The transmission lines are radiators. As such they will also receive. Power lines are right up next to the rigs. The RF from the radios will trash the BPL. Probably by causing drop outs and adding lots of extra delays. Basically it will make BPL useless anywhere near a ham station. Dan/W4NTI OK, let's say it does slow or even stop BPL near a ham station. Why wouldn't the FCC restrict amatuer operations around BPL areas? Frank Dresser Well, hopefully, they can still read their own rules and regulations there at the FCC. You see we are the authorized legal service. And BPL is the unlicensed part 15 activity. Part 15 devices must accept interference from the licensed users. Hams. Course again, we are dealing with lawyers. So anything goes. Dan/W4NTI |
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message hlink.net... Well, hopefully, they can still read their own rules and regulations there at the FCC. You see we are the authorized legal service. And BPL is the unlicensed part 15 activity. Part 15 devices must accept interference from the licensed users. Hams. Course again, we are dealing with lawyers. So anything goes. Dan/W4NTI If they don't like what they read, they'll write new ones. Frank Dresser |
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message hlink.net... Well, hopefully, they can still read their own rules and regulations there at the FCC. You see we are the authorized legal service. And BPL is the unlicensed part 15 activity. Part 15 devices must accept interference from the licensed users. Hams. Course again, we are dealing with lawyers. So anything goes. Dan/W4NTI If they don't like what they read, they'll write new ones. Frank Dresser |
"Frank Dresser" wrote in message ... "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message link.net... The transmission lines are radiators. As such they will also receive. Power lines are right up next to the rigs. The RF from the radios will trash the BPL. Probably by causing drop outs and adding lots of extra delays. Basically it will make BPL useless anywhere near a ham station. Dan/W4NTI OK, let's say it does slow or even stop BPL near a ham station. Why wouldn't the FCC restrict amatuer operations around BPL areas? Frank Dresser Because we are a licensed service and BPL is not ... Carl - wk3c |
"Frank Dresser" wrote in message ... "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message link.net... The transmission lines are radiators. As such they will also receive. Power lines are right up next to the rigs. The RF from the radios will trash the BPL. Probably by causing drop outs and adding lots of extra delays. Basically it will make BPL useless anywhere near a ham station. Dan/W4NTI OK, let's say it does slow or even stop BPL near a ham station. Why wouldn't the FCC restrict amatuer operations around BPL areas? Frank Dresser Because we are a licensed service and BPL is not ... Carl - wk3c |
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message ... Because we are a licensed service and BPL is not ... Carl - wk3c Oh. Who writes the licensing rules? Would it be the same politicians and bureaucrats who think BPL is just fine and dandy? Frank Dresser |
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message ... Because we are a licensed service and BPL is not ... Carl - wk3c Oh. Who writes the licensing rules? Would it be the same politicians and bureaucrats who think BPL is just fine and dandy? Frank Dresser |
In article k.net,
Dan/W4NTI w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote: Well, hopefully, they can still read their own rules and regulations there at the FCC. You see we are the authorized legal service. THEY are the law. If they decide the public need for this kind of broadband internet access outweighs the need of a few hams to chit-chat...well... Politics is quite an interesting thing. What's Right isn't always clear-cut, and doesn't always go, even if it is. We're probably talking about a majority of lawmakers who neither understand radio nor the internet. They're likely to see, "guy with freaky-ass radio equipment is stopping hundreds of my voters from getting internet access, and this should be illegal." Or, worse, "Guy who is giving me no money is interfering with organization that is laying on the dough." A united voice speaks better to the government, which is why ARRL is asking for backing. -Beej |
In article k.net,
Dan/W4NTI w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote: Well, hopefully, they can still read their own rules and regulations there at the FCC. You see we are the authorized legal service. THEY are the law. If they decide the public need for this kind of broadband internet access outweighs the need of a few hams to chit-chat...well... Politics is quite an interesting thing. What's Right isn't always clear-cut, and doesn't always go, even if it is. We're probably talking about a majority of lawmakers who neither understand radio nor the internet. They're likely to see, "guy with freaky-ass radio equipment is stopping hundreds of my voters from getting internet access, and this should be illegal." Or, worse, "Guy who is giving me no money is interfering with organization that is laying on the dough." A united voice speaks better to the government, which is why ARRL is asking for backing. -Beej |
"Keith" wrote in message nk.net... On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:31:17 GMT, opcom in wrote: What have you done for Amateur Radio today? --^^--------------------------------------------------------------- The question is what has the ARRL done to the future of Ham Radio by hanging on to the Morse Code Requirement? It has killed it. -- Best Regards, Keith http://kilowatt-radio.org/ ========================================== = http://slrn.org SLRN 0.9.8.0 is out. = ========================================== Makes you happy that you are nothing more than a no-code CB'er. 10-73's! |
"Keith" wrote in message nk.net... On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:31:17 GMT, opcom in wrote: What have you done for Amateur Radio today? --^^--------------------------------------------------------------- The question is what has the ARRL done to the future of Ham Radio by hanging on to the Morse Code Requirement? It has killed it. -- Best Regards, Keith http://kilowatt-radio.org/ ========================================== = http://slrn.org SLRN 0.9.8.0 is out. = ========================================== Makes you happy that you are nothing more than a no-code CB'er. 10-73's! |
"recalcitrant ham op" wrote in message ... "opcom" wrote in message ... This was posted to ARLI, I don't know how many subscribe, but in spite of the numerous comments against BPL (transmitting wideband internet data over power lines, which will destroy the HF radio spectrum), the FCC seems disposed to encourage it anyway. evil! evil! just look up BPL on the web. T the noise from the radiated signals trashed the ham bands thoroughly. I guess you never heard that money talks and bull**** walks eh? Did you *REALLY THINK* that a couple hundred aging HF operating tightwad ham radio operators are going to stop an emerging technology that will conceivably network home appliances to the internet and be worth $BILLIONS$ in potential revenue ?? Jeezehus-H-christ...get F-N real !! Get your facts straight. There are 300,000+ hams licensed to operate HF and another 300,000+ hams licensed in the VHF and higher only category. Note that BPL will also trash 6meters and 2meters. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"recalcitrant ham op" wrote in message ... "opcom" wrote in message ... This was posted to ARLI, I don't know how many subscribe, but in spite of the numerous comments against BPL (transmitting wideband internet data over power lines, which will destroy the HF radio spectrum), the FCC seems disposed to encourage it anyway. evil! evil! just look up BPL on the web. T the noise from the radiated signals trashed the ham bands thoroughly. I guess you never heard that money talks and bull**** walks eh? Did you *REALLY THINK* that a couple hundred aging HF operating tightwad ham radio operators are going to stop an emerging technology that will conceivably network home appliances to the internet and be worth $BILLIONS$ in potential revenue ?? Jeezehus-H-christ...get F-N real !! Get your facts straight. There are 300,000+ hams licensed to operate HF and another 300,000+ hams licensed in the VHF and higher only category. Note that BPL will also trash 6meters and 2meters. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Frank Dresser" wrote in message ... "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message link.net... The transmission lines are radiators. As such they will also receive. Power lines are right up next to the rigs. The RF from the radios will trash the BPL. Probably by causing drop outs and adding lots of extra delays. Basically it will make BPL useless anywhere near a ham station. Dan/W4NTI OK, let's say it does slow or even stop BPL near a ham station. Why wouldn't the FCC restrict amatuer operations around BPL areas? Right now and under the new power level proposal, BPL must meet Part 15. This means that it legally cannot cause interference to any authorized or licensed radio service and must accept interference from any authorized or licensed radio service. Therefore any problems in BPL must be resolved on the BPL side under current regulations. It would require changes in both Part 15 and Part 97 to restrict operations around BPL areas. Plus don't forget the non-ham spectrum users. The FCC will have a heck of a time telling commercial AM radio, FM radio, and over-the-air TV broadcasters to shut down. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Frank Dresser" wrote in message ... "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message link.net... The transmission lines are radiators. As such they will also receive. Power lines are right up next to the rigs. The RF from the radios will trash the BPL. Probably by causing drop outs and adding lots of extra delays. Basically it will make BPL useless anywhere near a ham station. Dan/W4NTI OK, let's say it does slow or even stop BPL near a ham station. Why wouldn't the FCC restrict amatuer operations around BPL areas? Right now and under the new power level proposal, BPL must meet Part 15. This means that it legally cannot cause interference to any authorized or licensed radio service and must accept interference from any authorized or licensed radio service. Therefore any problems in BPL must be resolved on the BPL side under current regulations. It would require changes in both Part 15 and Part 97 to restrict operations around BPL areas. Plus don't forget the non-ham spectrum users. The FCC will have a heck of a time telling commercial AM radio, FM radio, and over-the-air TV broadcasters to shut down. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message .com... Right now and under the new power level proposal, BPL must meet Part 15. This means that it legally cannot cause interference to any authorized or licensed radio service and must accept interference from any authorized or licensed radio service. Therefore any problems in BPL must be resolved on the BPL side under current regulations. It would require changes in both Part 15 and Part 97 to restrict operations around BPL areas. Yes, that's the question. If a currently legal amatuer radio operator could shut down high speed internet access for a given area, is there any reason the FCC couldn't change it's current regulations, and put in new restrictions on amateur radio? Plus don't forget the non-ham spectrum users. The FCC will have a heck of a time telling commercial AM radio, FM radio, and over-the-air TV broadcasters to shut down. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE I'm sure the FCC wouldn't restrict any of that. The TV networks, radio networks and all the people who watch and listen won't let them. Frank Dresser |
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message .com... Right now and under the new power level proposal, BPL must meet Part 15. This means that it legally cannot cause interference to any authorized or licensed radio service and must accept interference from any authorized or licensed radio service. Therefore any problems in BPL must be resolved on the BPL side under current regulations. It would require changes in both Part 15 and Part 97 to restrict operations around BPL areas. Yes, that's the question. If a currently legal amatuer radio operator could shut down high speed internet access for a given area, is there any reason the FCC couldn't change it's current regulations, and put in new restrictions on amateur radio? Plus don't forget the non-ham spectrum users. The FCC will have a heck of a time telling commercial AM radio, FM radio, and over-the-air TV broadcasters to shut down. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE I'm sure the FCC wouldn't restrict any of that. The TV networks, radio networks and all the people who watch and listen won't let them. Frank Dresser |
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message .com... Well interference caused by hams will be small potatoes compared to the power that some of the commercial broadcasters are allowed to use. That will compromise BPL over a much larger area than any ham station ever could. If BPL ever comes to my area, I'm within a few hundred yards of some of these broadcasters so the BPL users will never even notice my signal since they'll be constantly torn up by the commercial stuff. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE I expect the BPLers would trap the broadcast frequencies. If the interference from established broadcasters is still too high, they simply won't offer service in that neighborhood. But I don't think RF is the biggest problem for BPL. Overhead power lines will only intercept a small percentage of the RF, and re-radiate at least half of that. I think noise sources plugged directly into the power line are going to cause far more problems. Frank Dresser |
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message .com... Well interference caused by hams will be small potatoes compared to the power that some of the commercial broadcasters are allowed to use. That will compromise BPL over a much larger area than any ham station ever could. If BPL ever comes to my area, I'm within a few hundred yards of some of these broadcasters so the BPL users will never even notice my signal since they'll be constantly torn up by the commercial stuff. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE I expect the BPLers would trap the broadcast frequencies. If the interference from established broadcasters is still too high, they simply won't offer service in that neighborhood. But I don't think RF is the biggest problem for BPL. Overhead power lines will only intercept a small percentage of the RF, and re-radiate at least half of that. I think noise sources plugged directly into the power line are going to cause far more problems. Frank Dresser |
"Frank Dresser" wrote in message ... "Dee D. Flint" wrote in message .com... Well interference caused by hams will be small potatoes compared to the power that some of the commercial broadcasters are allowed to use. That will compromise BPL over a much larger area than any ham station ever could. If BPL ever comes to my area, I'm within a few hundred yards of some of these broadcasters so the BPL users will never even notice my signal since they'll be constantly torn up by the commercial stuff. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE I expect the BPLers would trap the broadcast frequencies. If the interference from established broadcasters is still too high, they simply won't offer service in that neighborhood. But I don't think RF is the biggest problem for BPL. Overhead power lines will only intercept a small percentage of the RF, and re-radiate at least half of that. I think noise sources plugged directly into the power line are going to cause far more problems. Frank Dresser Could very well be. If one of the neighbors has welding equipment, that can really put a lot of noise onto an electrical line. It takes a lot of filtering to keep that out of your radio and no doubt would do a good job of interfering with the Internet signal. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Frank Dresser" wrote in message ... "Dee D. Flint" wrote in message .com... Well interference caused by hams will be small potatoes compared to the power that some of the commercial broadcasters are allowed to use. That will compromise BPL over a much larger area than any ham station ever could. If BPL ever comes to my area, I'm within a few hundred yards of some of these broadcasters so the BPL users will never even notice my signal since they'll be constantly torn up by the commercial stuff. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE I expect the BPLers would trap the broadcast frequencies. If the interference from established broadcasters is still too high, they simply won't offer service in that neighborhood. But I don't think RF is the biggest problem for BPL. Overhead power lines will only intercept a small percentage of the RF, and re-radiate at least half of that. I think noise sources plugged directly into the power line are going to cause far more problems. Frank Dresser Could very well be. If one of the neighbors has welding equipment, that can really put a lot of noise onto an electrical line. It takes a lot of filtering to keep that out of your radio and no doubt would do a good job of interfering with the Internet signal. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Capt. Carl would you please make BPL go away like you did the real Hams.
Thank you. 10-73's! |
Capt. Carl would you please make BPL go away like you did the real Hams.
Thank you. 10-73's! |
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