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Kenwood TS-450 repair
I wish to repair my own Kenwood TS-450S-AT and to begin from
somewhere, I'd like to know what other 450's users think of the current situation: 1) When I power the rig, I have no audio at all and no trasmitting. The display shows a row of dots. If I move the main dial, the frequency appears normally, but if I release it, after half a second the dots appear again. 2) Some other times, when I give power I have both audio and trasmitting and the display works well, but the audio in SSB/CW modes is totally distorted, while it is ok in AM/FM modes. However after 5-20 minutes of rx, the situation becomes that described at point 1. 3) I have read of the battery problem in the 450, so I found the lithium battery and measured it. It gives 3.28 V, is that normal? Since the rig is approaching ten years I think I will change it anyway, but I don't know if it is a problem now! 4) On the bottom side of the rig, near the place for the 455 kHz cw filter (I have the 8.83 one, so this place is empty), there is a 3-wire connector labeled "W3". The short cable, with a similar connector on the other side, is attached to... nothing. But I don't see any place to attach it, even if I look at the whole board. Unfortunately I lack the 450/690 service manual and I did not find this connector on the istruction manual schemes. This MAY be normal, though. My conclusions, for now: a) When things are ok, except for SSB/CW, the problem should arise in the second IF at 455 kHz. Either the CAR Unit does not give a correct 455 kHz carrier or something is wrong in the IF mixer chip or near it. In fact this chip is used only in ssb/cw/fsk modes. b) When the rig is almost dead, perhaps there is something wrong in the digital/display unit. Lithium battery? Some digital chip, which one? c) Also the mere power could be a problem. My supply, 13.8 V 40 A max, looks good, but internally there are circuits to obtain the different voltages required and these could be damaged. I am mainly looking for the service manual (someone has scanned it?), but all other advices are welcome. James |
W3 connects to the TU-8 tone unit, which uses DIP switches to generate one
of about 40 PL or other tones. This would only be activated if you enabled the front panel TONE switch, and probably would only be useful on FM. My unit draws a solid 20 amps when transmitting, and if the power supply is set to current limit at that point, it will do so. I'm using an Astron VS-35M supply set to about 14v and full current, which should be good for 35 amps max, and have only had a problem when the current limit was set lower. I doubt your power supply is a problem on receive, unless it's very low (less than 8 volts) or very high (more than 18 volts). The lithium battery should be used just for memory retention, and they're normally around 3.6v, so 3.28 isn't too bad, but probably time to be replaced anyway. My unit is 11 years old and I should look into the same battery replacement in mine. The rest of your symptoms are very strange. I can offer no help at all. Obviously something is wrong, but I can't even begin to tell you what to look for. Bob M. ====== "James" wrote in message ... I wish to repair my own Kenwood TS-450S-AT and to begin from somewhere, I'd like to know what other 450's users think of the current situation: 1) When I power the rig, I have no audio at all and no trasmitting. The display shows a row of dots. If I move the main dial, the frequency appears normally, but if I release it, after half a second the dots appear again. 2) Some other times, when I give power I have both audio and trasmitting and the display works well, but the audio in SSB/CW modes is totally distorted, while it is ok in AM/FM modes. However after 5-20 minutes of rx, the situation becomes that described at point 1. 3) I have read of the battery problem in the 450, so I found the lithium battery and measured it. It gives 3.28 V, is that normal? Since the rig is approaching ten years I think I will change it anyway, but I don't know if it is a problem now! 4) On the bottom side of the rig, near the place for the 455 kHz cw filter (I have the 8.83 one, so this place is empty), there is a 3-wire connector labeled "W3". The short cable, with a similar connector on the other side, is attached to... nothing. But I don't see any place to attach it, even if I look at the whole board. Unfortunately I lack the 450/690 service manual and I did not find this connector on the istruction manual schemes. This MAY be normal, though. My conclusions, for now: a) When things are ok, except for SSB/CW, the problem should arise in the second IF at 455 kHz. Either the CAR Unit does not give a correct 455 kHz carrier or something is wrong in the IF mixer chip or near it. In fact this chip is used only in ssb/cw/fsk modes. b) When the rig is almost dead, perhaps there is something wrong in the digital/display unit. Lithium battery? Some digital chip, which one? c) Also the mere power could be a problem. My supply, 13.8 V 40 A max, looks good, but internally there are circuits to obtain the different voltages required and these could be damaged. I am mainly looking for the service manual (someone has scanned it?), but all other advices are welcome. James |
W3 connects to the TU-8 tone unit, which uses DIP switches to generate one
of about 40 PL or other tones. This would only be activated if you enabled the front panel TONE switch, and probably would only be useful on FM. My unit draws a solid 20 amps when transmitting, and if the power supply is set to current limit at that point, it will do so. I'm using an Astron VS-35M supply set to about 14v and full current, which should be good for 35 amps max, and have only had a problem when the current limit was set lower. I doubt your power supply is a problem on receive, unless it's very low (less than 8 volts) or very high (more than 18 volts). The lithium battery should be used just for memory retention, and they're normally around 3.6v, so 3.28 isn't too bad, but probably time to be replaced anyway. My unit is 11 years old and I should look into the same battery replacement in mine. The rest of your symptoms are very strange. I can offer no help at all. Obviously something is wrong, but I can't even begin to tell you what to look for. Bob M. ====== "James" wrote in message ... I wish to repair my own Kenwood TS-450S-AT and to begin from somewhere, I'd like to know what other 450's users think of the current situation: 1) When I power the rig, I have no audio at all and no trasmitting. The display shows a row of dots. If I move the main dial, the frequency appears normally, but if I release it, after half a second the dots appear again. 2) Some other times, when I give power I have both audio and trasmitting and the display works well, but the audio in SSB/CW modes is totally distorted, while it is ok in AM/FM modes. However after 5-20 minutes of rx, the situation becomes that described at point 1. 3) I have read of the battery problem in the 450, so I found the lithium battery and measured it. It gives 3.28 V, is that normal? Since the rig is approaching ten years I think I will change it anyway, but I don't know if it is a problem now! 4) On the bottom side of the rig, near the place for the 455 kHz cw filter (I have the 8.83 one, so this place is empty), there is a 3-wire connector labeled "W3". The short cable, with a similar connector on the other side, is attached to... nothing. But I don't see any place to attach it, even if I look at the whole board. Unfortunately I lack the 450/690 service manual and I did not find this connector on the istruction manual schemes. This MAY be normal, though. My conclusions, for now: a) When things are ok, except for SSB/CW, the problem should arise in the second IF at 455 kHz. Either the CAR Unit does not give a correct 455 kHz carrier or something is wrong in the IF mixer chip or near it. In fact this chip is used only in ssb/cw/fsk modes. b) When the rig is almost dead, perhaps there is something wrong in the digital/display unit. Lithium battery? Some digital chip, which one? c) Also the mere power could be a problem. My supply, 13.8 V 40 A max, looks good, but internally there are circuits to obtain the different voltages required and these could be damaged. I am mainly looking for the service manual (someone has scanned it?), but all other advices are welcome. James |
One simple thing to try: loosen and retighten all screws that
hold down circuit boards; wiggle all jumper connectors, so they are reseated and the contacts wiped a bit. This cured several really strange problems on my very old TS-930. -- ... Hank Hank: http://horedson.home.att.net W0RLI: http://w0rli.home.att.net "James" wrote in message ... I wish to repair my own Kenwood TS-450S-AT and to begin from somewhere, I'd like to know what other 450's users think of the current situation: 1) When I power the rig, I have no audio at all and no trasmitting. The display shows a row of dots. If I move the main dial, the frequency appears normally, but if I release it, after half a second the dots appear again. 2) Some other times, when I give power I have both audio and trasmitting and the display works well, but the audio in SSB/CW modes is totally distorted, while it is ok in AM/FM modes. However after 5-20 minutes of rx, the situation becomes that described at point 1. 3) I have read of the battery problem in the 450, so I found the lithium battery and measured it. It gives 3.28 V, is that normal? Since the rig is approaching ten years I think I will change it anyway, but I don't know if it is a problem now! 4) On the bottom side of the rig, near the place for the 455 kHz cw filter (I have the 8.83 one, so this place is empty), there is a 3-wire connector labeled "W3". The short cable, with a similar connector on the other side, is attached to... nothing. But I don't see any place to attach it, even if I look at the whole board. Unfortunately I lack the 450/690 service manual and I did not find this connector on the istruction manual schemes. This MAY be normal, though. My conclusions, for now: a) When things are ok, except for SSB/CW, the problem should arise in the second IF at 455 kHz. Either the CAR Unit does not give a correct 455 kHz carrier or something is wrong in the IF mixer chip or near it. In fact this chip is used only in ssb/cw/fsk modes. b) When the rig is almost dead, perhaps there is something wrong in the digital/display unit. Lithium battery? Some digital chip, which one? c) Also the mere power could be a problem. My supply, 13.8 V 40 A max, looks good, but internally there are circuits to obtain the different voltages required and these could be damaged. I am mainly looking for the service manual (someone has scanned it?), but all other advices are welcome. James |
One simple thing to try: loosen and retighten all screws that
hold down circuit boards; wiggle all jumper connectors, so they are reseated and the contacts wiped a bit. This cured several really strange problems on my very old TS-930. -- ... Hank Hank: http://horedson.home.att.net W0RLI: http://w0rli.home.att.net "James" wrote in message ... I wish to repair my own Kenwood TS-450S-AT and to begin from somewhere, I'd like to know what other 450's users think of the current situation: 1) When I power the rig, I have no audio at all and no trasmitting. The display shows a row of dots. If I move the main dial, the frequency appears normally, but if I release it, after half a second the dots appear again. 2) Some other times, when I give power I have both audio and trasmitting and the display works well, but the audio in SSB/CW modes is totally distorted, while it is ok in AM/FM modes. However after 5-20 minutes of rx, the situation becomes that described at point 1. 3) I have read of the battery problem in the 450, so I found the lithium battery and measured it. It gives 3.28 V, is that normal? Since the rig is approaching ten years I think I will change it anyway, but I don't know if it is a problem now! 4) On the bottom side of the rig, near the place for the 455 kHz cw filter (I have the 8.83 one, so this place is empty), there is a 3-wire connector labeled "W3". The short cable, with a similar connector on the other side, is attached to... nothing. But I don't see any place to attach it, even if I look at the whole board. Unfortunately I lack the 450/690 service manual and I did not find this connector on the istruction manual schemes. This MAY be normal, though. My conclusions, for now: a) When things are ok, except for SSB/CW, the problem should arise in the second IF at 455 kHz. Either the CAR Unit does not give a correct 455 kHz carrier or something is wrong in the IF mixer chip or near it. In fact this chip is used only in ssb/cw/fsk modes. b) When the rig is almost dead, perhaps there is something wrong in the digital/display unit. Lithium battery? Some digital chip, which one? c) Also the mere power could be a problem. My supply, 13.8 V 40 A max, looks good, but internally there are circuits to obtain the different voltages required and these could be damaged. I am mainly looking for the service manual (someone has scanned it?), but all other advices are welcome. James |
In article , Bob M. wrote:
The rest of your symptoms are very strange. I can offer no help at all. Obviously something is wrong, but I can't even begin to tell you what to look for. They are very common. Kenwood potted the main PLL in a rubber compound to isolate from thermal changes and mechanical shock. In plain English to slow down the effect of temperature changes and prevent frequency jumping if you tapped the radio, or when mobile went over a bump. The problem is that over the years the rubber compound started to absorb water from the air. If you were in a totaly dry enviornment this would never happen. I have an R5000 (same problem). When I lived in the U.S. I kept the radio in a basement that was so wet everything would rot in a few days, so we kept a dehumidifier running and the basement was very dry. The radio never had a problem. After sitting in a box and then a freight container over the ocean, it picked up enough moisture to fail in about 3 months. The fix is simple in theory and is documented on the Kenwood web site. You remove the shield from the main PLL, remove the rubber compound, replace any parts damaged due to corrosion and readjust the PLL. An experienced technician, such as Cliff at AAVID, can do it for about $100 for parts and labor. Unless you have the correct tools and equipment, I'm not sure you can do it, but many people have. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson 972-54-608-069 Icq/AIM Uin: 2661079 MSN IM: (Not for email) Carp are bottom feeders, koi are too, and not surprisingly are ferrets. |
In article , Bob M. wrote:
The rest of your symptoms are very strange. I can offer no help at all. Obviously something is wrong, but I can't even begin to tell you what to look for. They are very common. Kenwood potted the main PLL in a rubber compound to isolate from thermal changes and mechanical shock. In plain English to slow down the effect of temperature changes and prevent frequency jumping if you tapped the radio, or when mobile went over a bump. The problem is that over the years the rubber compound started to absorb water from the air. If you were in a totaly dry enviornment this would never happen. I have an R5000 (same problem). When I lived in the U.S. I kept the radio in a basement that was so wet everything would rot in a few days, so we kept a dehumidifier running and the basement was very dry. The radio never had a problem. After sitting in a box and then a freight container over the ocean, it picked up enough moisture to fail in about 3 months. The fix is simple in theory and is documented on the Kenwood web site. You remove the shield from the main PLL, remove the rubber compound, replace any parts damaged due to corrosion and readjust the PLL. An experienced technician, such as Cliff at AAVID, can do it for about $100 for parts and labor. Unless you have the correct tools and equipment, I'm not sure you can do it, but many people have. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson 972-54-608-069 Icq/AIM Uin: 2661079 MSN IM: (Not for email) Carp are bottom feeders, koi are too, and not surprisingly are ferrets. |
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message ... In article , Bob M. wrote: The rest of your symptoms are very strange. I can offer no help at all. Obviously something is wrong, but I can't even begin to tell you what to look for. They are very common. Kenwood potted the main PLL in a rubber compound to isolate from thermal changes and mechanical shock. In plain English to slow down the effect of temperature changes and prevent frequency jumping if you tapped the radio, or when mobile went over a bump. The TS450's do NOT use the compund that caused so many problems in the TS440's. I have owned both. The fix is simple in theory and is documented on the Kenwood web site. You remove the shield from the main PLL, remove the rubber compound, replace any parts damaged due to corrosion and readjust the PLL. AS I said there is no compound in the 450. If you are experiencing a row of dots on your display, this is a sign your VCO is out of lock. If you can borrow a service manual, it is very easy to realign. |
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message ... In article , Bob M. wrote: The rest of your symptoms are very strange. I can offer no help at all. Obviously something is wrong, but I can't even begin to tell you what to look for. They are very common. Kenwood potted the main PLL in a rubber compound to isolate from thermal changes and mechanical shock. In plain English to slow down the effect of temperature changes and prevent frequency jumping if you tapped the radio, or when mobile went over a bump. The TS450's do NOT use the compund that caused so many problems in the TS440's. I have owned both. The fix is simple in theory and is documented on the Kenwood web site. You remove the shield from the main PLL, remove the rubber compound, replace any parts damaged due to corrosion and readjust the PLL. AS I said there is no compound in the 450. If you are experiencing a row of dots on your display, this is a sign your VCO is out of lock. If you can borrow a service manual, it is very easy to realign. |
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This was posted to ARLI, I don't know how many subscribe, but in spite of the numerous comments against BPL (transmitting wideband internet data over power lines, which will destroy the HF radio spectrum), the FCC seems disposed
to encourage it anyway. evil! evil! just look up BPL on the web. The noise from the radiated signals trashed the ham bands thoroughly. ------------------- From: Amateur Radio Station N0JAA 4:00 PM Subject: [ARLI] FCC Commissioner's Comments Concerning BPL To: , , The following is a transcript from a recent speech given by FCC Commissioner Kathleen Q. Abernathy at the United PowerLine Council's annual conference regarding BPL. It seems that she is all for it. It also seems that BPL is going to become a reality, regardless of what ARRL, the military, or anyone else says. As usual, big industry wins over everyone else because they have the money. This is from today's FCC Digest. Paul, N0JAA ---------------------- Reaching Broadband Nirvana United PowerLine Council Annual Conference Remarks of Commissioner Kathleen Q. Abernathy September 22, 2003 (As prepared for delivery) Thank you very much for inviting me to speak with you. I am very excited about broadband-over-powerline technology. I have seen it in action, and I believe it has a very bright future. It is a real honor to be your keynote speaker at this important juncture for BPL. As a regulator, I am keenly interested in BPL technology for a number of reasons. One of my central objectives as an FCC commissioner is to facilitate the deployment of broadband services to all Americans. I also fundamentally believe that the FCC can best promote consumer welfare by relying on market forces, rather than heavy-handed regulation. The development of BPL networks will serve both of these key goals. It will not only bring broadband to previously unserved communities, but the introduction of a new broadband pipeline into the home will foster the kind of competitive marketplace that will eventually enable the Commission to let go of the regulatory reins. I want consumers to have a choice of multiple, facilities-based providers, including not only cable and DSL, but also powerline, wireless, and satellite services. Such a robustly competitive and diversified marketplace is something I would call broadband Nirvana. We will not get there overnight, but the continuing development of BPL technology is a major step forward. While the long-term objective is a robustly competitive marketplace that is free of regulatory distortions, a more immediate question is: What should the FCC do to help foster such an environment? Sticking with my Nirvana metaphor, I guess the question would be, what is the path to enlightenment? I believe the answer, in short, is regulatory restraint. It is tempting for regulators to take every new technology or service that comes along and apply the same rules that govern incumbent services. After all, regulatory parity and a level playing field are intuitively appealing concepts. But I believe that it would be a huge mistake to carry forward legacy regulations whenever new technology platforms are established. Many of our regulations are premised on the absence of competition, and when that rationale is eroded, we must not reflexively hold on to regulations that no longer serve their intended purpose. In fact, many of our old rules not only become unnecessary as markets evolve, but they can be fatal to new services that need room to breathe. The Nascent Services Doctrine applying more stringent regulations to wireline providers at a minimum must be reconsidered. As other platforms, including BPL and wireless, become more widely available, that will further undermine the justification for regulating incumbent LECs broadband services as if they were the only available offerings. When the Commission completes this rulemaking, I expect that we will eliminate many existing rules and substantially modify others; the central question is the degree of regulation that will remain during the transition to a more robustly competitive market. Finally, it is important to recognize that although the emergence of new platforms like BPL will eliminate the need for many competition-related regulations, other types of regulation may well remain necessary. For example, the FCC must implement public policy goals unrelated to competition, or even at odds with competition. Universal service and access for persons with disabilities are examples of this kind of regulation. These public policy goals generally should be applied to all service providers, to the extent permitted by the Communications Act. The FCC also must intervene to prevent competitors from imposing externalities on one another and to protect consumers where market failures are identified. Although, as I have noted, the Commission was right to refrain from imposing heavy-handed price and service-quality regulations on PCS services when the were introduced, it was also right to adopt strict interference rules to prevent competitors from externalizing their costs. The same principle will apply to BPL. They key point is that, while some degree of regulation is both inevitable and desirable, we should ensure that it is narrowly tailored to the particular governmental interests at stake. I appreciate the opportunity to share these thoughts with you, and I would be happy to answer a few questions if we have time. ******------****** please click on one or more of the links below to send a blank subscribe message. Amateur Radio Legal Issues List (A list for discussing legal and legislative issues impacting Amateur Radio from Congress and the FCC) What have you done for Amateur Radio today? --^^--------------------------------------------------------------- |
The row of dots on the main display indicates that a PLL is out of
lock..First, don`t attempt to repair the radio without an original service manual as it has colored coded voltage readings for rec and transmit etc..a copy will not show that..To repair this Kenwood is a pretty ambitious undertaking, if you have multi-layer circuit board experience down to the component level,and if you have a good source of Japanese replacement parts,and if you have micro-minature un-solder and re-solder tools and skills, then you have about 50/50 chance of being of making the necessary repairs..to make a long story short,send it to a cetified Kenwood service station.. Good Luck W4PQW |
The row of dots on the main display indicates that a PLL is out of
lock..First, don`t attempt to repair the radio without an original service manual as it has colored coded voltage readings for rec and transmit etc..a copy will not show that..To repair this Kenwood is a pretty ambitious undertaking, if you have multi-layer circuit board experience down to the component level,and if you have a good source of Japanese replacement parts,and if you have micro-minature un-solder and re-solder tools and skills, then you have about 50/50 chance of being of making the necessary repairs..to make a long story short,send it to a cetified Kenwood service station.. Good Luck W4PQW |
"opcom" wrote in message ... This was posted to ARLI, I don't know how many subscribe, but in spite of the numerous comments against BPL (transmitting wideband internet data over power lines, which will destroy the HF radio spectrum), the FCC seems disposed to encourage it anyway. evil! evil! just look up BPL on the web. T the noise from the radiated signals trashed the ham bands thoroughly. I guess you never heard that money talks and bull**** walks eh? Did you *REALLY THINK* that a couple hundred aging HF operating tightwad ham radio operators are going to stop an emerging technology that will conceivably network home appliances to the internet and be worth $BILLIONS$ in potential revenue ?? Jeezehus-H-christ...get F-N real !! |
"opcom" wrote in message ... This was posted to ARLI, I don't know how many subscribe, but in spite of the numerous comments against BPL (transmitting wideband internet data over power lines, which will destroy the HF radio spectrum), the FCC seems disposed to encourage it anyway. evil! evil! just look up BPL on the web. T the noise from the radiated signals trashed the ham bands thoroughly. I guess you never heard that money talks and bull**** walks eh? Did you *REALLY THINK* that a couple hundred aging HF operating tightwad ham radio operators are going to stop an emerging technology that will conceivably network home appliances to the internet and be worth $BILLIONS$ in potential revenue ?? Jeezehus-H-christ...get F-N real !! |
"recalcitrant ham op" wrote in message ... Another no-callsign anti-ham Troll. (yawn) Charles Brabham, N5PVL |
"recalcitrant ham op" wrote in message ... Another no-callsign anti-ham Troll. (yawn) Charles Brabham, N5PVL |
recalcitrant ham op wrote: Did you *REALLY THINK* that a couple hundred aging HF operating tightwad ham radio operators are going to stop an emerging technology that will conceivably network home appliances to the internet and be worth $BILLIONS$ in potential revenue ?? Hams are the least of the problems. There are many other users of the HF range who will be effected other than hams. Here's just a few: US Coast Guard makes high use of HF All branches of the military Many long distance marine comms are still on HF TransAtlantic and Pacific Air Traffic Control Comms are HF (Imagine if the ATC ground station can't hear an Aircraft call is position). And that's just a few services who are heavy uses of HF. George http://www.MilAirComms.com With DSL who needs BPL? |
recalcitrant ham op wrote: Did you *REALLY THINK* that a couple hundred aging HF operating tightwad ham radio operators are going to stop an emerging technology that will conceivably network home appliances to the internet and be worth $BILLIONS$ in potential revenue ?? Hams are the least of the problems. There are many other users of the HF range who will be effected other than hams. Here's just a few: US Coast Guard makes high use of HF All branches of the military Many long distance marine comms are still on HF TransAtlantic and Pacific Air Traffic Control Comms are HF (Imagine if the ATC ground station can't hear an Aircraft call is position). And that's just a few services who are heavy uses of HF. George http://www.MilAirComms.com With DSL who needs BPL? |
"Keith" wrote in message nk.net... On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:31:17 GMT, opcom in wrote: What have you done for Amateur Radio today? --^^--------------------------------------------------------------- The question is what has the ARRL done to the future of Ham Radio by hanging on to the Morse Code Requirement? It has killed it. -- Best Regards, Keith http://kilowatt-radio.org/ ========================================== = http://slrn.org SLRN 0.9.8.0 is out. ======================================= You really are a dumbass ain't ya Kieth? Tell me, in you apparantly drug clouded brain. How BPL and CW have anything to do with each other? Oh never mind. You ain't worth reading anylonger. Dan/W4NTI |
"Keith" wrote in message nk.net... On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:31:17 GMT, opcom in wrote: What have you done for Amateur Radio today? --^^--------------------------------------------------------------- The question is what has the ARRL done to the future of Ham Radio by hanging on to the Morse Code Requirement? It has killed it. -- Best Regards, Keith http://kilowatt-radio.org/ ========================================== = http://slrn.org SLRN 0.9.8.0 is out. ======================================= You really are a dumbass ain't ya Kieth? Tell me, in you apparantly drug clouded brain. How BPL and CW have anything to do with each other? Oh never mind. You ain't worth reading anylonger. Dan/W4NTI |
"recalcitrant ham op" wrote in message ... "opcom" wrote in message ... This was posted to ARLI, I don't know how many subscribe, but in spite of the numerous comments against BPL (transmitting wideband internet data over power lines, which will destroy the HF radio spectrum), the FCC seems disposed to encourage it anyway. evil! evil! just look up BPL on the web. T the noise from the radiated signals trashed the ham bands thoroughly. I guess you never heard that money talks and bull**** walks eh? Did you *REALLY THINK* that a couple hundred aging HF operating tightwad ham radio operators are going to stop an emerging technology that will conceivably network home appliances to the internet and be worth $BILLIONS$ in potential revenue ?? Jeezehus-H-christ...get F-N real !! Sure we will. All we need to is put up KW level beacon stations. End of BPL. Dan/W4NTI |
"recalcitrant ham op" wrote in message ... "opcom" wrote in message ... This was posted to ARLI, I don't know how many subscribe, but in spite of the numerous comments against BPL (transmitting wideband internet data over power lines, which will destroy the HF radio spectrum), the FCC seems disposed to encourage it anyway. evil! evil! just look up BPL on the web. T the noise from the radiated signals trashed the ham bands thoroughly. I guess you never heard that money talks and bull**** walks eh? Did you *REALLY THINK* that a couple hundred aging HF operating tightwad ham radio operators are going to stop an emerging technology that will conceivably network home appliances to the internet and be worth $BILLIONS$ in potential revenue ?? Jeezehus-H-christ...get F-N real !! Sure we will. All we need to is put up KW level beacon stations. End of BPL. Dan/W4NTI |
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message link.net... Sure we will. All we need to is put up KW level beacon stations. End of BPL. Dan/W4NTI Why would that end BPL? Frank Dresser |
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message link.net... Sure we will. All we need to is put up KW level beacon stations. End of BPL. Dan/W4NTI Why would that end BPL? Frank Dresser |
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"Keith" wrote in message nk.net... On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:31:17 GMT, opcom in wrote: What have you done for Amateur Radio today? --^^--------------------------------------------------------------- The question is what has the ARRL done to the future of Ham Radio by hanging on to the Morse Code Requirement? It has killed it. -- Best Regards, Keith http://kilowatt-radio.org/ ========================================== = http://slrn.org SLRN 0.9.8.0 is out. ======================================= You really are a dumbass ain't ya Kieth? Tell me, in you apparantly drug clouded brain. How BPL and CW have anything to do with each other? Oh never mind. You ain't worth reading anylonger. Dan/W4NTI Keith, Just ignore Dan. Everyone in his mind is a DUMBASS. the only one who is perfect is HIM, PERIOD. -- 73 Frank K3EKO |
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"Keith" wrote in message nk.net... On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:31:17 GMT, opcom in wrote: What have you done for Amateur Radio today? --^^--------------------------------------------------------------- The question is what has the ARRL done to the future of Ham Radio by hanging on to the Morse Code Requirement? It has killed it. -- Best Regards, Keith http://kilowatt-radio.org/ ========================================== = http://slrn.org SLRN 0.9.8.0 is out. ======================================= You really are a dumbass ain't ya Kieth? Tell me, in you apparantly drug clouded brain. How BPL and CW have anything to do with each other? Oh never mind. You ain't worth reading anylonger. Dan/W4NTI Keith, Just ignore Dan. Everyone in his mind is a DUMBASS. the only one who is perfect is HIM, PERIOD. -- 73 Frank K3EKO |
"recalcitrant ham op" wrote in message ... "opcom" wrote in message ... This was posted to ARLI, I don't know how many subscribe, but in spite of the numerous comments against BPL (transmitting wideband internet data over power lines, which will destroy the HF radio spectrum), the FCC seems disposed to encourage it anyway. evil! evil! just look up BPL on the web. T the noise from the radiated signals trashed the ham bands thoroughly. I guess you never heard that money talks and bull**** walks eh? Did you *REALLY THINK* that a couple hundred aging HF operating tightwad ham radio operators are going to stop an emerging technology that will conceivably network home appliances to the internet and be worth $BILLIONS$ in potential revenue ?? Fortunately, our HF bands are interleave in between allocation for aeronautical mobile, maritime mobile, DoD, private fixed service, short wave broadcasting, etc. I do not believe that we will be anywhere near close to being alone in this battle. Carl - wk3c |
"recalcitrant ham op" wrote in message ... "opcom" wrote in message ... This was posted to ARLI, I don't know how many subscribe, but in spite of the numerous comments against BPL (transmitting wideband internet data over power lines, which will destroy the HF radio spectrum), the FCC seems disposed to encourage it anyway. evil! evil! just look up BPL on the web. T the noise from the radiated signals trashed the ham bands thoroughly. I guess you never heard that money talks and bull**** walks eh? Did you *REALLY THINK* that a couple hundred aging HF operating tightwad ham radio operators are going to stop an emerging technology that will conceivably network home appliances to the internet and be worth $BILLIONS$ in potential revenue ?? Fortunately, our HF bands are interleave in between allocation for aeronautical mobile, maritime mobile, DoD, private fixed service, short wave broadcasting, etc. I do not believe that we will be anywhere near close to being alone in this battle. Carl - wk3c |
What's that got to do with BPL???
Keith wrote: On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:31:17 GMT, opcom in wrote: What have you done for Amateur Radio today? --^^--------------------------------------------------------------- The question is what has the ARRL done to the future of Ham Radio by hanging on to the Morse Code Requirement? It has killed it. -- Best Regards, Keith http://kilowatt-radio.org/ ========================================== = http://slrn.org SLRN 0.9.8.0 is out. = ========================================== |
What's that got to do with BPL???
Keith wrote: On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:31:17 GMT, opcom in wrote: What have you done for Amateur Radio today? --^^--------------------------------------------------------------- The question is what has the ARRL done to the future of Ham Radio by hanging on to the Morse Code Requirement? It has killed it. -- Best Regards, Keith http://kilowatt-radio.org/ ========================================== = http://slrn.org SLRN 0.9.8.0 is out. = ========================================== |
Right on --
retired merchant marine R/O N4GL GeorgeF wrote: recalcitrant ham op wrote: Did you *REALLY THINK* that a couple hundred aging HF operating tightwad ham radio operators are going to stop an emerging technology that will conceivably network home appliances to the internet and be worth $BILLIONS$ in potential revenue ?? Hams are the least of the problems. There are many other users of the HF range who will be effected other than hams. Here's just a few: US Coast Guard makes high use of HF All branches of the military Many long distance marine comms are still on HF TransAtlantic and Pacific Air Traffic Control Comms are HF (Imagine if the ATC ground station can't hear an Aircraft call is position). And that's just a few services who are heavy uses of HF. George http://www.MilAirComms.com With DSL who needs BPL? |
Right on --
retired merchant marine R/O N4GL GeorgeF wrote: recalcitrant ham op wrote: Did you *REALLY THINK* that a couple hundred aging HF operating tightwad ham radio operators are going to stop an emerging technology that will conceivably network home appliances to the internet and be worth $BILLIONS$ in potential revenue ?? Hams are the least of the problems. There are many other users of the HF range who will be effected other than hams. Here's just a few: US Coast Guard makes high use of HF All branches of the military Many long distance marine comms are still on HF TransAtlantic and Pacific Air Traffic Control Comms are HF (Imagine if the ATC ground station can't hear an Aircraft call is position). And that's just a few services who are heavy uses of HF. George http://www.MilAirComms.com With DSL who needs BPL? |
Here's what we do --- we built a (legal) KW rig into a van, install a
vertical- radiating antenna, cut out the roof and replace it with a fiberglass sheet. Drive directly underneath a power line with BPL running. Run lots of QSO's, and have at it. We're legal. Induced RF just might make them think twice about it. Yes, I know Ashcrofts boys are reading this --- Hi, muthers -- I live at the callbook address. Bring some beer when you come visiting. N4GL Frank Dresser wrote: "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message link.net... Sure we will. All we need to is put up KW level beacon stations. End of BPL. Dan/W4NTI Why would that end BPL? Frank Dresser |
Here's what we do --- we built a (legal) KW rig into a van, install a
vertical- radiating antenna, cut out the roof and replace it with a fiberglass sheet. Drive directly underneath a power line with BPL running. Run lots of QSO's, and have at it. We're legal. Induced RF just might make them think twice about it. Yes, I know Ashcrofts boys are reading this --- Hi, muthers -- I live at the callbook address. Bring some beer when you come visiting. N4GL Frank Dresser wrote: "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message link.net... Sure we will. All we need to is put up KW level beacon stations. End of BPL. Dan/W4NTI Why would that end BPL? Frank Dresser |
"Walter Treftz" wrote in message ... Here's what we do --- we built a (legal) KW rig into a van, install a vertical- radiating antenna, cut out the roof and replace it with a fiberglass sheet. Drive directly underneath a power line with BPL running. Run lots of QSO's, and have at it. We're legal. Induced RF just might make them think twice about it. Yes, I know Ashcrofts boys are reading this --- Hi, muthers -- I live at the callbook address. Bring some beer when you come visiting. N4GL Do you mean the way CBers made channel 5 unwatchable 25 years ago? I don't know much about BPL, but I think the TV analogy might hold. Given the bandwidth of BPL, there must be dozens, maybe hundreds of channels on the powerline. Can every one, or most of them, be wiped out? I'm thinking somebody came up with some pretty robust ways to deal with interference. But what if it does stop BPL? BPL isn't being backed because it's a technically elegant system. It's being backed by politics. Rural areas were critically important in the last Presidential election, and any candidiate would love to say something like "MY OPPONENT IS STOPPING ONE FORM OF HIGH SPEED INTERNET DISTRIBUTION ON BEHALF OF HIS PALS IN THE TELECOMMUNCATIONS INDUSTRY, BUT I PROMISE TO BRING IT IN, RIGHT ON YOUR POWER LINE, AS SOON AS I'M ELECTED!!" Of course, that would be a political misrepresentation, but politicans get away with worse every day. Politics turns into a numbers game. How many politicians or bureaucrats are saying anything negative about this goofy scheme? Politicians may not know physics, but they do know how to count. Frank Dresser |
"Walter Treftz" wrote in message ... Here's what we do --- we built a (legal) KW rig into a van, install a vertical- radiating antenna, cut out the roof and replace it with a fiberglass sheet. Drive directly underneath a power line with BPL running. Run lots of QSO's, and have at it. We're legal. Induced RF just might make them think twice about it. Yes, I know Ashcrofts boys are reading this --- Hi, muthers -- I live at the callbook address. Bring some beer when you come visiting. N4GL Do you mean the way CBers made channel 5 unwatchable 25 years ago? I don't know much about BPL, but I think the TV analogy might hold. Given the bandwidth of BPL, there must be dozens, maybe hundreds of channels on the powerline. Can every one, or most of them, be wiped out? I'm thinking somebody came up with some pretty robust ways to deal with interference. But what if it does stop BPL? BPL isn't being backed because it's a technically elegant system. It's being backed by politics. Rural areas were critically important in the last Presidential election, and any candidiate would love to say something like "MY OPPONENT IS STOPPING ONE FORM OF HIGH SPEED INTERNET DISTRIBUTION ON BEHALF OF HIS PALS IN THE TELECOMMUNCATIONS INDUSTRY, BUT I PROMISE TO BRING IT IN, RIGHT ON YOUR POWER LINE, AS SOON AS I'M ELECTED!!" Of course, that would be a political misrepresentation, but politicans get away with worse every day. Politics turns into a numbers game. How many politicians or bureaucrats are saying anything negative about this goofy scheme? Politicians may not know physics, but they do know how to count. Frank Dresser |
I posted something similar to this in a different newsgroup, but I wonder if
based on the logic that the interference could also affect other services such as emergency services, aircraft frequencies, and even military frequency allocations, it would seem to me to be important to persuade those groups to pressure the FCC against the whole BPL thing..... -- Ryan, KC8PMX FF1-FF2-MFR-(pending NREMT-B!) --. --- -.. ... .- -. --. . .-.. ... .- .-. . ..-. .. .-. . ..-. ... --. .... - . .-. ... "recalcitrant ham op" wrote in message ... "opcom" wrote in message ... This was posted to ARLI, I don't know how many subscribe, but in spite of the numerous comments against BPL (transmitting wideband internet data over power lines, which will destroy the HF radio spectrum), the FCC seems disposed to encourage it anyway. evil! evil! just look up BPL on the web. T the noise from the radiated signals trashed the ham bands thoroughly. I guess you never heard that money talks and bull**** walks eh? Did you *REALLY THINK* that a couple hundred aging HF operating tightwad ham radio operators are going to stop an emerging technology that will conceivably network home appliances to the internet and be worth $BILLIONS$ in potential revenue ?? Jeezehus-H-christ...get F-N real !! |
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