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"MD" ha scritto:
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message ... In article , Bob M. wrote: The rest of your symptoms are very strange. I can offer no help at all. Obviously something is wrong, but I can't even begin to tell you what to look for. They are very common. Kenwood potted the main PLL in a rubber compound to isolate from thermal changes and mechanical shock. In plain English to slow down the effect of temperature changes and prevent frequency jumping if you tapped the radio, or when mobile went over a bump. The TS450's do NOT use the compund that caused so many problems in the TS440's. I have owned both. The fix is simple in theory and is documented on the Kenwood web site. You remove the shield from the main PLL, remove the rubber compound, replace any parts damaged due to corrosion and readjust the PLL. AS I said there is no compound in the 450. If you are experiencing a row of dots on your display, this is a sign your VCO is out of lock. If you can borrow a service manual, it is very easy to realign. That's right! In fact I read again carefully the istruction manual, while looking for the service one. I was so used to the disabled beep, frankly annoying, that I didn't hear the error message! First of all, I replaced the lithium battery, but this in fact has nothing to do with the symptoms. Anyway, I put a battery holder in place of the soldered contacts, thus in the future it will be a 5 minutes work to change the battery. Apparently, I didn't damage any cmos circuit... Then, when I powered the rig, all parameters were of course reset, so the beep was enabled and I noticed that when the display became a row of dots, the speaker played "UL" in Morse code. This is the error message for "PLL unlocked". I unmounted then the CAR board and opened the case of the PLL board, which is right under the CAR (and both under the speaker). I detached and attached again all connectors, to be sure it was not a bad contact. Then I measured the 5V and 8V pratically everywhere and the voltages where there. Unfortunately I don't have a frequency meter with me now and the only I have was bought at an hamfest - never sure it worked well... So I used an handheld, for higher frequencies, and another HF rig I have, for the lower ones. Using these radios as probes, I found that the VCO is probably working well: I tuned to 995 kHz and, since the first IF is at 73.050 MHz, the VCO should be at exactly 74 MHZ. And there I found it! Moving the tuning to 1995 kHz of course moved the VCO to 75 MHz etc. The PLL unit should also provide a fixed 64.220 MHz signal for the second IF, and this one was missing! No signal, or probably on a different frequency. This is the first real problem I have noticed. Then I checked on the CAR unit the 8.375 MHz for the third IF and the 455 kHz for the sideband detector. Both were present, even if peraphs somewhat lower in frequency (I estimated 453 kHz). This could be the cause for the distorted reception in SSB. Also the fixed 20 MHz signal was there. So, what I need now is to know how to realign the PLL unit, to obtain again the 64.220 MHz signal that is missing (but for this I will also check again cables...). Thanks for now to everybody. I have also read the advice about sending the rig to a Kenwood service center. Well, this is the first thing I tried, but apparently it looks very complicated in my country to be serviced by Kenwood at the moment... James |
"MD" ha scritto:
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message ... In article , Bob M. wrote: The rest of your symptoms are very strange. I can offer no help at all. Obviously something is wrong, but I can't even begin to tell you what to look for. They are very common. Kenwood potted the main PLL in a rubber compound to isolate from thermal changes and mechanical shock. In plain English to slow down the effect of temperature changes and prevent frequency jumping if you tapped the radio, or when mobile went over a bump. The TS450's do NOT use the compund that caused so many problems in the TS440's. I have owned both. The fix is simple in theory and is documented on the Kenwood web site. You remove the shield from the main PLL, remove the rubber compound, replace any parts damaged due to corrosion and readjust the PLL. AS I said there is no compound in the 450. If you are experiencing a row of dots on your display, this is a sign your VCO is out of lock. If you can borrow a service manual, it is very easy to realign. That's right! In fact I read again carefully the istruction manual, while looking for the service one. I was so used to the disabled beep, frankly annoying, that I didn't hear the error message! First of all, I replaced the lithium battery, but this in fact has nothing to do with the symptoms. Anyway, I put a battery holder in place of the soldered contacts, thus in the future it will be a 5 minutes work to change the battery. Apparently, I didn't damage any cmos circuit... Then, when I powered the rig, all parameters were of course reset, so the beep was enabled and I noticed that when the display became a row of dots, the speaker played "UL" in Morse code. This is the error message for "PLL unlocked". I unmounted then the CAR board and opened the case of the PLL board, which is right under the CAR (and both under the speaker). I detached and attached again all connectors, to be sure it was not a bad contact. Then I measured the 5V and 8V pratically everywhere and the voltages where there. Unfortunately I don't have a frequency meter with me now and the only I have was bought at an hamfest - never sure it worked well... So I used an handheld, for higher frequencies, and another HF rig I have, for the lower ones. Using these radios as probes, I found that the VCO is probably working well: I tuned to 995 kHz and, since the first IF is at 73.050 MHz, the VCO should be at exactly 74 MHZ. And there I found it! Moving the tuning to 1995 kHz of course moved the VCO to 75 MHz etc. The PLL unit should also provide a fixed 64.220 MHz signal for the second IF, and this one was missing! No signal, or probably on a different frequency. This is the first real problem I have noticed. Then I checked on the CAR unit the 8.375 MHz for the third IF and the 455 kHz for the sideband detector. Both were present, even if peraphs somewhat lower in frequency (I estimated 453 kHz). This could be the cause for the distorted reception in SSB. Also the fixed 20 MHz signal was there. So, what I need now is to know how to realign the PLL unit, to obtain again the 64.220 MHz signal that is missing (but for this I will also check again cables...). Thanks for now to everybody. I have also read the advice about sending the rig to a Kenwood service center. Well, this is the first thing I tried, but apparently it looks very complicated in my country to be serviced by Kenwood at the moment... James |
Don't know about BPL, but VDSL goes from 138KHz to 12MHz and has 4096 tones. Not as much potential for a problem, as it's all twisted pair rather than power lines.
Frank Dresser wrote: "Walter Treftz" wrote in message ... Here's what we do --- we built a (legal) KW rig into a van, install a vertical- radiating antenna, cut out the roof and replace it with a fiberglass sheet. Drive directly underneath a power line with BPL running. Run lots of QSO's, and have at it. We're legal. Induced RF just might make them think twice about it. Yes, I know Ashcrofts boys are reading this --- Hi, muthers -- I live at the callbook address. Bring some beer when you come visiting. N4GL Do you mean the way CBers made channel 5 unwatchable 25 years ago? I don't know much about BPL, but I think the TV analogy might hold. Given the bandwidth of BPL, there must be dozens, maybe hundreds of channels on the powerline. Can every one, or most of them, be wiped out? I'm thinking somebody came up with some pretty robust ways to deal with interference. But what if it does stop BPL? BPL isn't being backed because it's a technically elegant system. It's being backed by politics. Rural areas were critically important in the last Presidential election, and any candidiate would love to say something like "MY OPPONENT IS STOPPING ONE FORM OF HIGH SPEED INTERNET DISTRIBUTION ON BEHALF OF HIS PALS IN THE TELECOMMUNCATIONS INDUSTRY, BUT I PROMISE TO BRING IT IN, RIGHT ON YOUR POWER LINE, AS SOON AS I'M ELECTED!!" Of course, that would be a political misrepresentation, but politicans get away with worse every day. Politics turns into a numbers game. How many politicians or bureaucrats are saying anything negative about this goofy scheme? Politicians may not know physics, but they do know how to count. Frank Dresser |
Don't know about BPL, but VDSL goes from 138KHz to 12MHz and has 4096 tones. Not as much potential for a problem, as it's all twisted pair rather than power lines.
Frank Dresser wrote: "Walter Treftz" wrote in message ... Here's what we do --- we built a (legal) KW rig into a van, install a vertical- radiating antenna, cut out the roof and replace it with a fiberglass sheet. Drive directly underneath a power line with BPL running. Run lots of QSO's, and have at it. We're legal. Induced RF just might make them think twice about it. Yes, I know Ashcrofts boys are reading this --- Hi, muthers -- I live at the callbook address. Bring some beer when you come visiting. N4GL Do you mean the way CBers made channel 5 unwatchable 25 years ago? I don't know much about BPL, but I think the TV analogy might hold. Given the bandwidth of BPL, there must be dozens, maybe hundreds of channels on the powerline. Can every one, or most of them, be wiped out? I'm thinking somebody came up with some pretty robust ways to deal with interference. But what if it does stop BPL? BPL isn't being backed because it's a technically elegant system. It's being backed by politics. Rural areas were critically important in the last Presidential election, and any candidiate would love to say something like "MY OPPONENT IS STOPPING ONE FORM OF HIGH SPEED INTERNET DISTRIBUTION ON BEHALF OF HIS PALS IN THE TELECOMMUNCATIONS INDUSTRY, BUT I PROMISE TO BRING IT IN, RIGHT ON YOUR POWER LINE, AS SOON AS I'M ELECTED!!" Of course, that would be a political misrepresentation, but politicans get away with worse every day. Politics turns into a numbers game. How many politicians or bureaucrats are saying anything negative about this goofy scheme? Politicians may not know physics, but they do know how to count. Frank Dresser |
Don't know about BPL, but VDSL goes from 138KHz to 12MHz and has 4096 tones. Not as much potential for a problem, as it's all twisted pair rather than power lines.
Frank Dresser wrote: "Walter Treftz" wrote in message ... Here's what we do --- we built a (legal) KW rig into a van, install a vertical- radiating antenna, cut out the roof and replace it with a fiberglass sheet. Drive directly underneath a power line with BPL running. Run lots of QSO's, and have at it. We're legal. Induced RF just might make them think twice about it. Yes, I know Ashcrofts boys are reading this --- Hi, muthers -- I live at the callbook address. Bring some beer when you come visiting. N4GL Do you mean the way CBers made channel 5 unwatchable 25 years ago? I don't know much about BPL, but I think the TV analogy might hold. Given the bandwidth of BPL, there must be dozens, maybe hundreds of channels on the powerline. Can every one, or most of them, be wiped out? I'm thinking somebody came up with some pretty robust ways to deal with interference. But what if it does stop BPL? BPL isn't being backed because it's a technically elegant system. It's being backed by politics. Rural areas were critically important in the last Presidential election, and any candidiate would love to say something like "MY OPPONENT IS STOPPING ONE FORM OF HIGH SPEED INTERNET DISTRIBUTION ON BEHALF OF HIS PALS IN THE TELECOMMUNCATIONS INDUSTRY, BUT I PROMISE TO BRING IT IN, RIGHT ON YOUR POWER LINE, AS SOON AS I'M ELECTED!!" Of course, that would be a political misrepresentation, but politicans get away with worse every day. Politics turns into a numbers game. How many politicians or bureaucrats are saying anything negative about this goofy scheme? Politicians may not know physics, but they do know how to count. Frank Dresser |
Don't know about BPL, but VDSL goes from 138KHz to 12MHz and has 4096 tones. Not as much potential for a problem, as it's all twisted pair rather than power lines.
Frank Dresser wrote: "Walter Treftz" wrote in message ... Here's what we do --- we built a (legal) KW rig into a van, install a vertical- radiating antenna, cut out the roof and replace it with a fiberglass sheet. Drive directly underneath a power line with BPL running. Run lots of QSO's, and have at it. We're legal. Induced RF just might make them think twice about it. Yes, I know Ashcrofts boys are reading this --- Hi, muthers -- I live at the callbook address. Bring some beer when you come visiting. N4GL Do you mean the way CBers made channel 5 unwatchable 25 years ago? I don't know much about BPL, but I think the TV analogy might hold. Given the bandwidth of BPL, there must be dozens, maybe hundreds of channels on the powerline. Can every one, or most of them, be wiped out? I'm thinking somebody came up with some pretty robust ways to deal with interference. But what if it does stop BPL? BPL isn't being backed because it's a technically elegant system. It's being backed by politics. Rural areas were critically important in the last Presidential election, and any candidiate would love to say something like "MY OPPONENT IS STOPPING ONE FORM OF HIGH SPEED INTERNET DISTRIBUTION ON BEHALF OF HIS PALS IN THE TELECOMMUNCATIONS INDUSTRY, BUT I PROMISE TO BRING IT IN, RIGHT ON YOUR POWER LINE, AS SOON AS I'M ELECTED!!" Of course, that would be a political misrepresentation, but politicans get away with worse every day. Politics turns into a numbers game. How many politicians or bureaucrats are saying anything negative about this goofy scheme? Politicians may not know physics, but they do know how to count. Frank Dresser |
Don't know about BPL, but VDSL goes from 138KHz to 12MHz and has 4096 tones. Not as much potential for a problem, as it's all twisted pair rather than power lines.
Frank Dresser wrote: "Walter Treftz" wrote in message ... Here's what we do --- we built a (legal) KW rig into a van, install a vertical- radiating antenna, cut out the roof and replace it with a fiberglass sheet. Drive directly underneath a power line with BPL running. Run lots of QSO's, and have at it. We're legal. Induced RF just might make them think twice about it. Yes, I know Ashcrofts boys are reading this --- Hi, muthers -- I live at the callbook address. Bring some beer when you come visiting. N4GL Do you mean the way CBers made channel 5 unwatchable 25 years ago? I don't know much about BPL, but I think the TV analogy might hold. Given the bandwidth of BPL, there must be dozens, maybe hundreds of channels on the powerline. Can every one, or most of them, be wiped out? I'm thinking somebody came up with some pretty robust ways to deal with interference. But what if it does stop BPL? BPL isn't being backed because it's a technically elegant system. It's being backed by politics. Rural areas were critically important in the last Presidential election, and any candidiate would love to say something like "MY OPPONENT IS STOPPING ONE FORM OF HIGH SPEED INTERNET DISTRIBUTION ON BEHALF OF HIS PALS IN THE TELECOMMUNCATIONS INDUSTRY, BUT I PROMISE TO BRING IT IN, RIGHT ON YOUR POWER LINE, AS SOON AS I'M ELECTED!!" Of course, that would be a political misrepresentation, but politicans get away with worse every day. Politics turns into a numbers game. How many politicians or bureaucrats are saying anything negative about this goofy scheme? Politicians may not know physics, but they do know how to count. Frank Dresser |
Don't know about BPL, but VDSL goes from 138KHz to 12MHz and has 4096 tones. Not as much potential for a problem, as it's all twisted pair rather than power lines.
Frank Dresser wrote: "Walter Treftz" wrote in message ... Here's what we do --- we built a (legal) KW rig into a van, install a vertical- radiating antenna, cut out the roof and replace it with a fiberglass sheet. Drive directly underneath a power line with BPL running. Run lots of QSO's, and have at it. We're legal. Induced RF just might make them think twice about it. Yes, I know Ashcrofts boys are reading this --- Hi, muthers -- I live at the callbook address. Bring some beer when you come visiting. N4GL Do you mean the way CBers made channel 5 unwatchable 25 years ago? I don't know much about BPL, but I think the TV analogy might hold. Given the bandwidth of BPL, there must be dozens, maybe hundreds of channels on the powerline. Can every one, or most of them, be wiped out? I'm thinking somebody came up with some pretty robust ways to deal with interference. But what if it does stop BPL? BPL isn't being backed because it's a technically elegant system. It's being backed by politics. Rural areas were critically important in the last Presidential election, and any candidiate would love to say something like "MY OPPONENT IS STOPPING ONE FORM OF HIGH SPEED INTERNET DISTRIBUTION ON BEHALF OF HIS PALS IN THE TELECOMMUNCATIONS INDUSTRY, BUT I PROMISE TO BRING IT IN, RIGHT ON YOUR POWER LINE, AS SOON AS I'M ELECTED!!" Of course, that would be a political misrepresentation, but politicans get away with worse every day. Politics turns into a numbers game. How many politicians or bureaucrats are saying anything negative about this goofy scheme? Politicians may not know physics, but they do know how to count. Frank Dresser |
Don't know about BPL, but VDSL goes from 138KHz to 12MHz and has 4096 tones.
Not as much potential for a problem, as it's all twisted pair rather than power lines. And even at that, the VDSL industry has responded to the multiple presentations I have given to their committees and put in 30 dB notches on amateur spectrum. It will not be perfect, but those notches will help a lot. 73, Ed Hare, W1RFI |
Don't know about BPL, but VDSL goes from 138KHz to 12MHz and has 4096 tones.
Not as much potential for a problem, as it's all twisted pair rather than power lines. And even at that, the VDSL industry has responded to the multiple presentations I have given to their committees and put in 30 dB notches on amateur spectrum. It will not be perfect, but those notches will help a lot. 73, Ed Hare, W1RFI |
Quote:
Dear, I have same problem with my TS-450S. If you can help me please send me what to do on my e-mail : Thank you...9A2BW CROATIA, Island of BRAC |
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