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868MHz Propagation problem
dgleeson422111 wrote: Hello All We have a propagation issue that is confusing us. We have two 868MHz modules on test, each capable of 500mW transmission. We are testing to find the range of communication. We are testing them as follows. One remains in our office while the other is taken to the street outside. we are communicating charecter strings such as "Im at the lamp post number 1" etc. There is somebody at each end sending text strings in a continuous conversation. There is no protocol, error checking or error recovery. What we have repetadly found is that the radio in the office can receive long after the radio in the street has stopped receiving. (The person with the radio in the street is moving away from the office.) The radios are the same and the power supplies to the radios are the same. Indeed switching the radios gives the same effect. The propagation paths between the two radios are the same in terms of distance. However the radio signal transmitted from the office travels through walls first before then traveling through open space. Its the opposite for the radio in the street, firstly traveling through space and then through the walls in the office. We did think we had identified an interfeering source in one direction (when moving away from the office) so we started moving in the opposite direction. We found exactly the same effect. Are we getting interfeerance from GSM, ISM or Paging? As far as GSM bands go in Europe 890–915 MHz OR 1710–1785 MHz So these shouldnt be our problem. ISM is where we intend to operate and the greatest band occupancy should be 10%. So we should get communication even though we would get some interfeerance. Paging - well this has very much gone out of fashion in Europe. But even if it was the cause then wouldnt it be intermittant communication. We have a constant problem. Can anyone shed light on this phenomonon? Is it an issue of wireless propagation that Im not familiar with or is it Interfeerance? Best regards, and thanks for any input. Denis _____________________ http://www.CentronSolutions.com You may experience receiver desensitization from a strong out-of-band interferer which is not penetrating well into your office and hence not interferring there. Pere |
#2
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868MHz Propagation problem
Hi Guys
Thanks for your input on this. The idea of height being a problem is interesting. The radio in the office is on the 1st floor (i.e above the ground by one floor). If the antenna were at the same height would the problem go away? We will test and see On Oct 24, 11:57*am, oopere wrote: dgleeson422111 wrote: Hello All We have a propagation issue that is confusing us. We have two 868MHz modules on test, each capable of 500mW transmission. We are testing to find the range of communication. We are testing them as follows. One remains in our office while the other is taken to the street outside. we are communicating charecter strings such as "Im at the lamp post number 1" etc. There is somebody at each end sending text strings in a continuous conversation. There is no protocol, error checking or error recovery. What we have repetadly found is that the radio in the office can receive long after the radio in the street has stopped receiving. (The person with the radio in the street is moving away from the office.) The radios are the same and the power supplies to the radios are the same. Indeed switching the radios gives the same effect. The propagation paths between the two radios are the same in terms of distance. However the radio signal transmitted from the office travels through walls first before then traveling through open space. Its the opposite for the radio in the street, firstly traveling through space and then through the walls in the office. We did think we had identified an interfeering source in one direction (when moving away from the office) so we started moving in the opposite direction. We found exactly the same effect. Are we getting interfeerance from GSM, ISM or Paging? As far as GSM bands go in Europe 890–915 MHz OR 1710–1785 MHz So these shouldnt be our problem. ISM is where we intend to operate and the greatest band occupancy should be 10%. So we should get communication even though we would get some interfeerance. Paging - well this has very much gone out of fashion in Europe. But even if it was the cause then wouldnt it be intermittant communication. We have a constant problem. Can anyone shed light on this phenomonon? Is it an issue of wireless propagation that Im not familiar with or is it Interfeerance? Best regards, and thanks for any input. Denis _____________________ http://www.CentronSolutions.com You may experience receiver desensitization from a strong out-of-band interferer which is not penetrating well into your office and hence not interferring there. Pere- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
#3
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868MHz Propagation problem
higher antennas = longer range. Thats your issue.
Also lack of error correction, poor antenna pattern to meet the low power regulations, and a less then robust protocol, ie your probably using some form of on/off modulation where the receiver does not have a continious wave signal to locl on and track. Try sending a preamble character that is 10101010 a few times, assuming your receiver is sophisticated enough to use AGC. This sets the DC level in the discriminator more accurately and reduces errors. your using a radio with intentionally designed in limited range to allow reuse of the frquency. Steve |
#4
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868MHz Propagation problem
dgleeson422111 wrote:
Hi Guys Thanks for your input on this. The idea of height being a problem is interesting. The radio in the office is on the 1st floor (i.e above the ground by one floor). If the antenna were at the same height would the problem go away? We will test and see If I remember my antenna/propagation theory correctly, such a change should affect both the transmit and receive gains equally. That is to say, if moving the office antenna lower will reduce its transmit range, it will also reduce its receive range. What you are looking for is something that is reducing the office end transmit power while leaving its receive sensitivity intact. Someone else suggested an SWR problem due to near field interference with the antenna. -- Paul Hovnanian ------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't anthropomorphize computers. They hate that. |
#5
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868MHz Propagation problem
"oopere" wrote in message ... dgleeson422111 wrote: Hello All We have a propagation issue that is confusing us. We have two 868MHz modules on test, each capable of 500mW transmission. We are testing to find the range of communication. We are testing them as follows. One remains in our office while the other is taken to the street outside. we are communicating charecter strings such as "Im at the lamp post number 1" etc. There is somebody at each end sending text strings in a continuous conversation. There is no protocol, error checking or error recovery. What we have repetadly found is that the radio in the office can receive long after the radio in the street has stopped receiving. (The person with the radio in the street is moving away from the office.) The radios are the same and the power supplies to the radios are the same. Indeed switching the radios gives the same effect. The propagation paths between the two radios are the same in terms of distance. However the radio signal transmitted from the office travels through walls first before then traveling through open space. Its the opposite for the radio in the street, firstly traveling through space and then through the walls in the office. We did think we had identified an interfeering source in one direction (when moving away from the office) so we started moving in the opposite direction. We found exactly the same effect. Are we getting interfeerance from GSM, ISM or Paging? As far as GSM bands go in Europe 890–915 MHz OR 1710–1785 MHz So these shouldnt be our problem. ISM is where we intend to operate and the greatest band occupancy should be 10%. So we should get communication even though we would get some interfeerance. Paging - well this has very much gone out of fashion in Europe. But even if it was the cause then wouldnt it be intermittant communication. We have a constant problem. Can anyone shed light on this phenomonon? Is it an issue of wireless propagation that Im not familiar with or is it Interfeerance? Best regards, and thanks for any input. Denis _____________________ http://www.CentronSolutions.com You may experience receiver desensitization from a strong out-of-band interferer which is not penetrating well into your office and hence not interferring there. Pere Such as traffic light electronics. Without error correction protocols being employed, you are also at the mercy of multipath interference. You're QRMing your own signal. 8) Ed, NM2K |
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