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Marine VHF Radio for Truck
On 9/7/2013 3:51 PM, Reader wrote:
On 9/5/2013 6:08 PM, rickman wrote: On 9/5/2013 1:47 PM, Michael Black wrote: On Thu, 5 Sep 2013, rickman wrote: It seems very restrictive that anyone can use a marine VHF radio on their boat, but if they want to speak with someone on shore that is not allowed except for special cases like drawbridge operators. I can understand that marine radios are not for shore to shore communications, but it only seems natural to use the same radio for ship to ship and ship to shore comms. The magic reasoning is that if you're on a boat or ship, then you are on the water, and the marine band would then apply. You may need it for emergency, or talking to other boats. I'm sure you used to have to be licensed in order to have a Marine band license, so things have changed. Indeed, it was only about the late sixties that the VHF Marine band came into existence, before that you had to use the 2 to 3MHz Marine band, with much longer antennas and I think more serious licensing requirements. The VHF Marine band gave a lot more boaters the use of radio, and some of that was because in putting the band at higher frequencies, the range was limited, so more people could make use of the allocation. And about that time, the equipment on the HF marine band got fancier and more expensive, precisely to make better use of that allocation. But, if anyone could get a marine band radio and use it from shore, what's to keep them from just using it as a general radio band? The allocation is for marine use, yet if anyone could use a radio for the band from shore, then they might use it for any purpose. That's the difference, it's now easy to use the radio from a boat, where the band is intended for, and difficult to use from shore since you need to justify that you actually will be using it for ship to shore use. Faulty reasoning. I can use the marine band radio from shore now. The only thing stopping me is the law. Last year I was told it was ok to use it from shore if I was communicating with a boat (which makes perfect sense), now I find that is *not* the case. During our trip I heard any number of conversations between boats and what appeared to be their homes. There was no congestion, no interference of the airways, just ship to shore communications when useful. There is every need for a boat to have a radio, no need for everyone on shore to have a radio, so the licensing is restrictive. Likely not as restrictive as you perceive it, but still there to weed out the people who might wish to use it for other things. The utility of a radio, especially in emergency situations, is greatly diminished if you can't reach people on the shore. My understanding is that the range of these radios is *very* short if you are close to the water. There were kayaks less than 4 miles away who I could not raise on the radio and I was likely the closest point of assistance. If they had needed to call for help, who exactly would they be able to reach? In the sea kayaking community VHF radio is both regarded as an important safety device because of the importance of communications and as a joke because of how often it communicates with no out outside of your paddle group. I don't think it is unreasonable for shore stations to be able to monitor VHF and respond in an emergency situation or to prevent one. In the situation at Lake Anna, if I am not allowed to have a VHF license for my shore station, then what is the use of having a VHF radio in a boat? As someone mentioned earlier, the law was made to insure profits for the corporations that built shore stations that were hooked up to the telephone lines. This law of course is still in place. There is no more profit for the corporations, but the law remains on the books. I personally find much of the FCC rules and regulations to be simply a means to insure profits for business. A perfect example is the law that makes it almost impossible for a private person to put in their own low power radio station to cover their town. In the rural area where I live there is mostly dead air. I am retired and I would love to put in my own station to broadcast music and local news. Interesting. I considered that once myself. But the FCC has to license you and they aren't accepting any new applications for license. They don't say when they *will* be accepting new licenses either. Amazing! That is one of the very serious problems with our form of democracy in the USA. Most of the laws are actually written by companies or corporations who bribe politicians to enact the laws they want. This form of bribery has been found legal by the supreme court. However, if you attempt to bribe your way out of a speeding ticket, you will most likely suffer the full force of the law. Politicians get a special card to allow almost any form of corruption. If you go ahead and use the marine band as you would like to do, you may or may not get away with it. If you do not use it a lot, you probably will not get in trouble. I find absolutely no moral turpitude in your plan to use that frequency as a kayak to shore communication. Legal and moral are often 180 degrees apart in the USA. I fully plan to apply for a license. Thanks for the support. -- Rick |
Marine VHF Radio for Truck
On 9/7/2013 4:44 PM, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , rickman writes It seems very restrictive that anyone can use a marine VHF radio on their boat, but if they want to speak with someone on shore that is not allowed except for special cases like drawbridge operators. I can understand that marine radios are not for shore to shore communications, but it only seems natural to use the same radio for ship to ship and ship to shore comms. Although I've been a licensed radio amateur for over 50 years, I haven't really got a clue about using the marine VHF radio band, and the regulations appertaining to it. However, Wikipedia indicates that "It is used for a wide variety of purposes, including summoning rescue services and communicating with harbours, locks, bridges and marinas". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_VHF_radio The question therefore is essentially whether the land side of the two-way communication could also include things like the support teams for water-based events. I would have thought it would be standard practice for them to have two-way marine-band communications equipment for this purpose, and if so, it could be argued that the OP falls into this (presumably) permitted category. If they don't use the normal VHF marine band, what frequencies (and equipment) do they use? The obvious course of action would be to get the FCC to advise on the matter. I will be working on this in the coming week. Thanks for your comments. -- Rick |
Marine VHF Radio for Truck
On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 17:03:14 -0400, rickman wrote:
On 9/7/2013 4:44 PM, Ian Jackson wrote: In message , rickman writes It seems very restrictive that anyone can use a marine VHF radio on their boat, but if they want to speak with someone on shore that is not allowed except for special cases like drawbridge operators. I can understand that marine radios are not for shore to shore communications, but it only seems natural to use the same radio for ship to ship and ship to shore comms. Although I've been a licensed radio amateur for over 50 years, I haven't really got a clue about using the marine VHF radio band, and the regulations appertaining to it. However, Wikipedia indicates that "It is used for a wide variety of purposes, including summoning rescue services and communicating with harbours, locks, bridges and marinas". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_VHF_radio The question therefore is essentially whether the land side of the two-way communication could also include things like the support teams for water-based events. I would have thought it would be standard practice for them to have two-way marine-band communications equipment for this purpose, and if so, it could be argued that the OP falls into this (presumably) permitted category. If they don't use the normal VHF marine band, what frequencies (and equipment) do they use? The obvious course of action would be to get the FCC to advise on the matter. I will be working on this in the coming week. Thanks for your comments. "in Canada" non commercial vessels do not need a radio licence, but operators require an operator's certificate.. |
Marine VHF Radio for Truck
On 9/7/2013 4:03 PM, rickman wrote:
On 9/7/2013 4:44 PM, Ian Jackson wrote: In message , rickman writes It seems very restrictive that anyone can use a marine VHF radio on their boat, but if they want to speak with someone on shore that is not allowed except for special cases like drawbridge operators. I can understand that marine radios are not for shore to shore communications, but it only seems natural to use the same radio for ship to ship and ship to shore comms. Although I've been a licensed radio amateur for over 50 years, I haven't really got a clue about using the marine VHF radio band, and the regulations appertaining to it. However, Wikipedia indicates that "It is used for a wide variety of purposes, including summoning rescue services and communicating with harbours, locks, bridges and marinas". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_VHF_radio The question therefore is essentially whether the land side of the two-way communication could also include things like the support teams for water-based events. I would have thought it would be standard practice for them to have two-way marine-band communications equipment for this purpose, and if so, it could be argued that the OP falls into this (presumably) permitted category. If they don't use the normal VHF marine band, what frequencies (and equipment) do they use? The obvious course of action would be to get the FCC to advise on the matter. I will be working on this in the coming week. Thanks for your comments. As someone mentioned earlier, the law was made to insure profits for the corporations that built shore stations that were hooked up to the telephone lines. This law of course is still in place. There is no more profit for the corporations, but the law remains on the books. I personally find much of the FCC rules and regulations to be simply a means to insure profits for business. A perfect example is the law that makes it almost impossible for a private person to put in their own low power radio station to cover their town. In the rural area where I live there is mostly dead air. I am retired and I would love to put in my own station to broadcast music and local news. That is one of the very serious problems with our form of democracy in the USA. Most of the laws are actually written by companies or corporations who bribe politicians to enact the laws they want. This form of bribery has been found legal by the supreme court. However, if you attempt to bribe your way out of a speeding ticket, you will most likely suffer the full force of the law. Politicians get a special card to allow almost any form of corruption. If you go ahead and use the marine band as you would like to do, you may or may not get away with it. If you do not use it a lot, you probably will not get in trouble. I find absolutely no moral turpitude in your plan to use that frequency as a kayak to shore communication. Legal and moral are often 180 degrees apart in the USA. Of course there are some who believe that any statute on the books comes directly from God. Michael |
Marine VHF Radio for Truck
On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 19:10:14 -0400, rickman wrote:
On 9/7/2013 6:47 PM, wrote: On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 17:03:14 -0400, wrote: On 9/7/2013 4:44 PM, Ian Jackson wrote: In , writes It seems very restrictive that anyone can use a marine VHF radio on their boat, but if they want to speak with someone on shore that is not allowed except for special cases like drawbridge operators. I can understand that marine radios are not for shore to shore communications, but it only seems natural to use the same radio for ship to ship and ship to shore comms. Although I've been a licensed radio amateur for over 50 years, I haven't really got a clue about using the marine VHF radio band, and the regulations appertaining to it. However, Wikipedia indicates that "It is used for a wide variety of purposes, including summoning rescue services and communicating with harbours, locks, bridges and marinas". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_VHF_radio The question therefore is essentially whether the land side of the two-way communication could also include things like the support teams for water-based events. I would have thought it would be standard practice for them to have two-way marine-band communications equipment for this purpose, and if so, it could be argued that the OP falls into this (presumably) permitted category. If they don't use the normal VHF marine band, what frequencies (and equipment) do they use? The obvious course of action would be to get the FCC to advise on the matter. I will be working on this in the coming week. Thanks for your comments. "in Canada" non commercial vessels do not need a radio licence, but operators require an operator's certificate.. Yeah, I read on the FCC site that I am ok as long as I am in US waters or *not* communicating with a foreign station. Something like that. I don't expect to have any issues related to this though. It gets pretty cold up there near Canada and the water is even colder. You DO realize that most Canadians live south of Duluth? Kitchener is just north of the northern border of California - Great beaches on Georgian bay and Lake Erie.. Great warm water canoeing and kayaking on the Grand River. |
Marine VHF Radio for Truck
On 9/7/2013 4:44 PM, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , rickman writes It seems very restrictive that anyone can use a marine VHF radio on their boat, but if they want to speak with someone on shore that is not allowed except for special cases like drawbridge operators. I can understand that marine radios are not for shore to shore communications, but it only seems natural to use the same radio for ship to ship and ship to shore comms. Although I've been a licensed radio amateur for over 50 years, I haven't really got a clue about using the marine VHF radio band, and the regulations appertaining to it. However, Wikipedia indicates that "It is used for a wide variety of purposes, including summoning rescue services and communicating with harbours, locks, bridges and marinas". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_VHF_radio Ian, you should be reading the regs at www.fcc.gov, not trusting Wikipedia. The question therefore is essentially whether the land side of the two-way communication could also include things like the support teams for water-based events. I would have thought it would be standard practice for them to have two-way marine-band communications equipment for this purpose, and if so, it could be argued that the OP falls into this (presumably) permitted category. If they don't use the normal VHF marine band, what frequencies (and equipment) do they use? The obvious course of action would be to get the FCC to advise on the matter. Not according to the FCC regs. See the references earlier in this thread for requirements for a land marine station. There is no "standard practice" for licensing people for this purpose. There are only *very* limited options available. And if there were an "official" event, large enough and sponsored by someone, I am sure there would be marinas, etc., and the Coast Guard (or, on lakes, Coast Guard Auxiliary) monitoring the radios. And the op has repeatedly been advised to contact the FCC. -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle JDS Computer Training Corp. ================== |
Marine VHF Radio for Truck
On 9/7/2013 7:50 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 19:10:14 -0400, wrote: On 9/7/2013 6:47 PM, wrote: On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 17:03:14 -0400, wrote: On 9/7/2013 4:44 PM, Ian Jackson wrote: In , writes It seems very restrictive that anyone can use a marine VHF radio on their boat, but if they want to speak with someone on shore that is not allowed except for special cases like drawbridge operators. I can understand that marine radios are not for shore to shore communications, but it only seems natural to use the same radio for ship to ship and ship to shore comms. Although I've been a licensed radio amateur for over 50 years, I haven't really got a clue about using the marine VHF radio band, and the regulations appertaining to it. However, Wikipedia indicates that "It is used for a wide variety of purposes, including summoning rescue services and communicating with harbours, locks, bridges and marinas". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_VHF_radio The question therefore is essentially whether the land side of the two-way communication could also include things like the support teams for water-based events. I would have thought it would be standard practice for them to have two-way marine-band communications equipment for this purpose, and if so, it could be argued that the OP falls into this (presumably) permitted category. If they don't use the normal VHF marine band, what frequencies (and equipment) do they use? The obvious course of action would be to get the FCC to advise on the matter. I will be working on this in the coming week. Thanks for your comments. "in Canada" non commercial vessels do not need a radio licence, but operators require an operator's certificate.. Yeah, I read on the FCC site that I am ok as long as I am in US waters or *not* communicating with a foreign station. Something like that. I don't expect to have any issues related to this though. It gets pretty cold up there near Canada and the water is even colder. You DO realize that most Canadians live south of Duluth? Kitchener is just north of the northern border of California - Great beaches on Georgian bay and Lake Erie.. Great warm water canoeing and kayaking on the Grand River. The Great Lakes are a well known death trap for the unprepared kayaker. Check out some of the accident analyses on the cold water safety web site... http://www.coldwatersafety.org/ As for Grand River, here is a table of water temps. Seems Grand River, on the average, is only has a safe temperature for two months out of the year, July 10 to Sept 10. If I were to be kayaking near Canada it would be more likely East Coast and that is ocean and even worse. That's all I meant. BTW, being south of Duluth is no indication that the water is safe... Check out this case study that happened right here in Virginia... http://www.coldwatersafety.org/Rule2.html#rule2Case7 If you can't use the above link go to the cold water web site and click through to Golden Rule 2, case 7. When you read many of these reports it gets to you after a while. Many of these accidents could have been prevented if the kayakers had used a marine band VHF or other radio to contact help. That is one of the reasons why I want to get a marine radio here. -- Rick |
Marine VHF Radio for Truck
On 9/8/2013 9:48 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 00:07:21 -0400, wrote: On 9/7/2013 7:50 PM, wrote: On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 19:10:14 -0400, wrote: On 9/7/2013 6:47 PM, wrote: On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 17:03:14 -0400, wrote: On 9/7/2013 4:44 PM, Ian Jackson wrote: In , writes It seems very restrictive that anyone can use a marine VHF radio on their boat, but if they want to speak with someone on shore that is not allowed except for special cases like drawbridge operators. I can understand that marine radios are not for shore to shore communications, but it only seems natural to use the same radio for ship to ship and ship to shore comms. Although I've been a licensed radio amateur for over 50 years, I haven't really got a clue about using the marine VHF radio band, and the regulations appertaining to it. However, Wikipedia indicates that "It is used for a wide variety of purposes, including summoning rescue services and communicating with harbours, locks, bridges and marinas". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_VHF_radio The question therefore is essentially whether the land side of the two-way communication could also include things like the support teams for water-based events. I would have thought it would be standard practice for them to have two-way marine-band communications equipment for this purpose, and if so, it could be argued that the OP falls into this (presumably) permitted category. If they don't use the normal VHF marine band, what frequencies (and equipment) do they use? The obvious course of action would be to get the FCC to advise on the matter. I will be working on this in the coming week. Thanks for your comments. "in Canada" non commercial vessels do not need a radio licence, but operators require an operator's certificate.. Yeah, I read on the FCC site that I am ok as long as I am in US waters or *not* communicating with a foreign station. Something like that. I don't expect to have any issues related to this though. It gets pretty cold up there near Canada and the water is even colder. You DO realize that most Canadians live south of Duluth? Kitchener is just north of the northern border of California - Great beaches on Georgian bay and Lake Erie.. Great warm water canoeing and kayaking on the Grand River. The Great Lakes are a well known death trap for the unprepared kayaker. Check out some of the accident analyses on the cold water safety web site... http://www.coldwatersafety.org/ As for Grand River, here is a table of water temps. Seems Grand River, on the average, is only has a safe temperature for two months out of the year, July 10 to Sept 10. The grand on an AVERAGE year is safe as far as temps go from late june to early October - and the water is generally (relatively) shallow and slow moving through most of the watershed. This summer has been an exception - running full almost all summer. THOUSANDS of canoeists and kayakers all summer in the Kitchener and Cayuga areas in particular. The numbers I read *were* average numbers. What do you consider "safe" water temps? If I were to be kayaking near Canada it would be more likely East Coast and that is ocean and even worse. That's all I meant. BTW, being south of Duluth is no indication that the water is safe... Check out this case study that happened right here in Virginia... http://www.coldwatersafety.org/Rule2.html#rule2Case7 If you can't use the above link go to the cold water web site and click through to Golden Rule 2, case 7. When you read many of these reports it gets to you after a while. Many of these accidents could have been prevented if the kayakers had used a marine band VHF or other radio to contact help. That is one of the reasons why I want to get a marine radio here. Did you do any reading of the cold water safety site I mentioned. Most people don't realize the danger of cold water or just how cold it needs to be to be dangerous. -- Rick |
Marine VHF Radio for Truck
On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 00:07:21 -0400, rickman wrote:
On 9/7/2013 7:50 PM, wrote: On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 19:10:14 -0400, wrote: On 9/7/2013 6:47 PM, wrote: On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 17:03:14 -0400, wrote: On 9/7/2013 4:44 PM, Ian Jackson wrote: In , writes It seems very restrictive that anyone can use a marine VHF radio on their boat, but if they want to speak with someone on shore that is not allowed except for special cases like drawbridge operators. I can understand that marine radios are not for shore to shore communications, but it only seems natural to use the same radio for ship to ship and ship to shore comms. Although I've been a licensed radio amateur for over 50 years, I haven't really got a clue about using the marine VHF radio band, and the regulations appertaining to it. However, Wikipedia indicates that "It is used for a wide variety of purposes, including summoning rescue services and communicating with harbours, locks, bridges and marinas". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_VHF_radio The question therefore is essentially whether the land side of the two-way communication could also include things like the support teams for water-based events. I would have thought it would be standard practice for them to have two-way marine-band communications equipment for this purpose, and if so, it could be argued that the OP falls into this (presumably) permitted category. If they don't use the normal VHF marine band, what frequencies (and equipment) do they use? The obvious course of action would be to get the FCC to advise on the matter. I will be working on this in the coming week. Thanks for your comments. "in Canada" non commercial vessels do not need a radio licence, but operators require an operator's certificate.. Yeah, I read on the FCC site that I am ok as long as I am in US waters or *not* communicating with a foreign station. Something like that. I don't expect to have any issues related to this though. It gets pretty cold up there near Canada and the water is even colder. You DO realize that most Canadians live south of Duluth? Kitchener is just north of the northern border of California - Great beaches on Georgian bay and Lake Erie.. Great warm water canoeing and kayaking on the Grand River. The Great Lakes are a well known death trap for the unprepared kayaker. Check out some of the accident analyses on the cold water safety web site... http://www.coldwatersafety.org/ As for Grand River, here is a table of water temps. Seems Grand River, on the average, is only has a safe temperature for two months out of the year, July 10 to Sept 10. The grand on an AVERAGE year is safe as far as temps go from late june to early October - and the water is generally (relatively) shallow and slow moving through most of the watershed. This summer has been an exception - running full almost all summer. THOUSANDS of canoeists and kayakers all summer in the Kitchener and Cayuga areas in particular. If I were to be kayaking near Canada it would be more likely East Coast and that is ocean and even worse. That's all I meant. BTW, being south of Duluth is no indication that the water is safe... Check out this case study that happened right here in Virginia... http://www.coldwatersafety.org/Rule2.html#rule2Case7 If you can't use the above link go to the cold water web site and click through to Golden Rule 2, case 7. When you read many of these reports it gets to you after a while. Many of these accidents could have been prevented if the kayakers had used a marine band VHF or other radio to contact help. That is one of the reasons why I want to get a marine radio here. |
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