"Brian Howie" wrote in message
...
In message , gareth
writes
Presumably those SDR rigs which do not work on the IF but
directly from antennae must have, separately from the DSP processor,
some semblance of a DDS generator (but without the final DAC) to
act as the equivalent of the VFO, for I cannot perceive that a
fractional-Hz
tuning rate could be achieved with machine code running in the DSP
processor?
I'm not an expert ,but I think what you're asking is " how is the local
oscillator generated" in a direct conversion SDR and "what determines its
resolution"
There is an example here, :-
http://www.radioelementi.it/public/saqrx.pdf
The "c" source code is here,which I can just about understand ( My
software background is FORTRAN and Matlab) :-
https://sites.google.com/site/sm6lkm/saqrx/
Softies shouldn't have a problem with it although I was able to mess about
with it and recompile it successfully
In this case the spectrum is dc to 22050Hz in 512 steps. It's not the LO
precision ( it's floating point in this one) that limits it but the size
of the FFT , the sample rate and thus the record length, that sets the
minimum FFT bin width . This one tunes in lumps of about 43Hz

Thank-you Brian, but what you have URLed is already at baseband, being VLF.


When moving from FORTRAN to C, the major difference (apart from the
nitty-gritty
of statement syntax) is that in FORTRAN, variables are always passed by
reference
(at least in FORTRAN '66 which I did 47 years ago) and in C you have the
choice of passing
by value or by reference.

On Sat, 6 Feb 2016, gareth wrote:

"Brian Howie" wrote in message
...
In message , gareth
writes
Presumably those SDR rigs which do not work on the IF but
directly from antennae must have, separately from the DSP processor,
some semblance of a DDS generator (but without the final DAC) to
act as the equivalent of the VFO, for I cannot perceive that a
fractional-Hz
tuning rate could be achieved with machine code running in the DSP
processor?
I'm not an expert ,but I think what you're asking is " how is the local
oscillator generated" in a direct conversion SDR and "what determines its
resolution"
There is an example here, :-
http://www.radioelementi.it/public/saqrx.pdf
The "c" source code is here,which I can just about understand ( My
software background is FORTRAN and Matlab) :-
https://sites.google.com/site/sm6lkm/saqrx/
Softies shouldn't have a problem with it although I was able to mess about
with it and recompile it successfully
In this case the spectrum is dc to 22050Hz in 512 steps. It's not the LO
precision ( it's floating point in this one) that limits it but the size
of the FFT , the sample rate and thus the record length, that sets the
minimum FFT bin width . This one tunes in lumps of about 43Hz

Thank-you Brian, but what you have URLed is already at baseband, being VLF.

I thought that was the norm, not much doing A/D at signal frequency.
Initially, it was too fast for the hardware to handle, but there are
probably some good reasons still to downconvert.

Michael




When moving from FORTRAN to C, the major difference (apart from the
nitty-gritty
of statement syntax) is that in FORTRAN, variables are always passed by
reference
(at least in FORTRAN '66 which I did 47 years ago) and in C you have the
choice of passing
by value or by reference.

In message ple.org,
Michael Black writes
On Sat, 6 Feb 2016, gareth wrote:

"Brian Howie" wrote in message
...
In message , gareth
writes
Presumably those SDR rigs which do not work on the IF but
directly from antennae must have, separately from the DSP processor,
some semblance of a DDS generator (but without the final DAC) to
act as the equivalent of the VFO, for I cannot perceive that a
fractional-Hz
tuning rate could be achieved with machine code running in the DSP
processor?
I'm not an expert ,but I think what you're asking is " how is the local
oscillator generated" in a direct conversion SDR and "what determines its
resolution"
There is an example here, :-
http://www.radioelementi.it/public/saqrx.pdf
The "c" source code is here,which I can just about understand ( My
software background is FORTRAN and Matlab) :-
https://sites.google.com/site/sm6lkm/saqrx/
Softies shouldn't have a problem with it although I was able to mess about
with it and recompile it successfully
In this case the spectrum is dc to 22050Hz in 512 steps. It's not the LO
precision ( it's floating point in this one) that limits it but the size
of the FFT , the sample rate and thus the record length, that sets the
minimum FFT bin width . This one tunes in lumps of about 43Hz

Thank-you Brian, but what you have URLed is already at baseband, being VLF.

I thought that was the norm, not much doing A/D at signal frequency.
Initially, it was too fast for the hardware to handle, but there are
probably some good reasons still to downconvert.

Michael

Correct , but Gareth asked about the software equivalent of a DDS
frequency synthesiser or VFO.

Brian

--
Brian Howie

On Sat, 6 Feb 2016, Brian Howie wrote:

In message ple.org,
Michael Black writes
On Sat, 6 Feb 2016, gareth wrote:

"Brian Howie" wrote in message
...
In message , gareth
writes
Presumably those SDR rigs which do not work on the IF but
directly from antennae must have, separately from the DSP processor,
some semblance of a DDS generator (but without the final DAC) to
act as the equivalent of the VFO, for I cannot perceive that a
fractional-Hz
tuning rate could be achieved with machine code running in the DSP
processor?
I'm not an expert ,but I think what you're asking is " how is the local
oscillator generated" in a direct conversion SDR and "what determines its
resolution"
There is an example here, :-
http://www.radioelementi.it/public/saqrx.pdf
The "c" source code is here,which I can just about understand ( My
software background is FORTRAN and Matlab) :-
https://sites.google.com/site/sm6lkm/saqrx/
Softies shouldn't have a problem with it although I was able to mess
about
with it and recompile it successfully
In this case the spectrum is dc to 22050Hz in 512 steps. It's not the LO
precision ( it's floating point in this one) that limits it but the size
of the FFT , the sample rate and thus the record length, that sets the
minimum FFT bin width . This one tunes in lumps of about 43Hz

Thank-you Brian, but what you have URLed is already at baseband, being
VLF.

I thought that was the norm, not much doing A/D at signal frequency.
Initially, it was too fast for the hardware to handle, but there are
probably some good reasons still to downconvert.

Michael

Correct , but Gareth asked about the software equivalent of a DDS frequency
synthesiser or VFO.

The "directly from antenna" in his post threw me. If there's a
heterodyne conversion, which is what he was asking I see now, then there
has to some sort of local oscillator. The way I read it was that he was
asking how to tune something that directly converted to digital. Sorry.

Michael

On 2/6/2016 4:49 PM, Michael Black wrote:
On Sat, 6 Feb 2016, Brian Howie wrote:

In message ple.org,
Michael Black writes
On Sat, 6 Feb 2016, gareth wrote:

"Brian Howie" wrote in message
...
In message , gareth
writes
Presumably those SDR rigs which do not work on the IF but
directly from antennae must have, separately from the DSP processor,
some semblance of a DDS generator (but without the final DAC) to
act as the equivalent of the VFO, for I cannot perceive that a
fractional-Hz
tuning rate could be achieved with machine code running in the DSP
processor?
I'm not an expert ,but I think what you're asking is " how is the
local
oscillator generated" in a direct conversion SDR and "what
determines its
resolution"
There is an example here, :-
http://www.radioelementi.it/public/saqrx.pdf
The "c" source code is here,which I can just about understand ( My
software background is FORTRAN and Matlab) :-
https://sites.google.com/site/sm6lkm/saqrx/
Softies shouldn't have a problem with it although I was able to
mess about
with it and recompile it successfully
In this case the spectrum is dc to 22050Hz in 512 steps. It's not
the LO
precision ( it's floating point in this one) that limits it but
the size
of the FFT , the sample rate and thus the record length, that sets the
minimum FFT bin width . This one tunes in lumps of about 43Hz

Thank-you Brian, but what you have URLed is already at baseband,
being VLF.

I thought that was the norm, not much doing A/D at signal frequency.
Initially, it was too fast for the hardware to handle, but there are
probably some good reasons still to downconvert.

Michael

Correct , but Gareth asked about the software equivalent of a DDS
frequency synthesiser or VFO.

The "directly from antenna" in his post threw me. If there's a
heterodyne conversion, which is what he was asking I see now, then there
has to some sort of local oscillator. The way I read it was that he was
asking how to tune something that directly converted to digital. Sorry.

I'm a bit confused by the many comments about the original post, but
there is such a thing as a direct down conversion receiver. As long as
the input is sampled fast enough for the signal frequency or at least
fast enough for the bandwidth when using sub-sampling and there are
adequate filters on the input, this can work. The trouble is the
filtering. I believe that is why IF frequencies have been used, to
filter the signal more easily.

--

Rick

In message , gareth
writes
"Brian Howie" wrote in message
...
In message , gareth
writes
Presumably those SDR rigs which do not work on the IF but
directly from antennae must have, separately from the DSP processor,
some semblance of a DDS generator (but without the final DAC) to
act as the equivalent of the VFO, for I cannot perceive that a
fractional-Hz
tuning rate could be achieved with machine code running in the DSP
processor?
I'm not an expert ,but I think what you're asking is " how is the local
oscillator generated" in a direct conversion SDR and "what determines its
resolution"
There is an example here, :-
http://www.radioelementi.it/public/saqrx.pdf
The "c" source code is here,which I can just about understand ( My
software background is FORTRAN and Matlab) :-
https://sites.google.com/site/sm6lkm/saqrx/
Softies shouldn't have a problem with it although I was able to mess about
with it and recompile it successfully
In this case the spectrum is dc to 22050Hz in 512 steps. It's not the LO
precision ( it's floating point in this one) that limits it but the size
of the FFT , the sample rate and thus the record length, that sets the
minimum FFT bin width . This one tunes in lumps of about 43Hz

Thank-you Brian, but what you have URLed is already at baseband, being VLF.

Well not quite. Base-band in this case is the audio pass -band which is
down-converted from the RF ( if you can call it that) at up to 20KHz by
the software local oscillator.

You can do it mechanically as well.

Http://www.wireless.org.uk/mechrx.htm

Brian
--
Brian Howie

On 2/6/2016 1:07 PM, gareth wrote:
"Brian Howie" wrote in message
...
In message , gareth
writes
Presumably those SDR rigs which do not work on the IF but
directly from antennae must have, separately from the DSP processor,
some semblance of a DDS generator (but without the final DAC) to
act as the equivalent of the VFO, for I cannot perceive that a
fractional-Hz
tuning rate could be achieved with machine code running in the DSP
processor?
I'm not an expert ,but I think what you're asking is " how is the local
oscillator generated" in a direct conversion SDR and "what determines its
resolution"
There is an example here, :-
http://www.radioelementi.it/public/saqrx.pdf
The "c" source code is here,which I can just about understand ( My
software background is FORTRAN and Matlab) :-
https://sites.google.com/site/sm6lkm/saqrx/
Softies shouldn't have a problem with it although I was able to mess about
with it and recompile it successfully
In this case the spectrum is dc to 22050Hz in 512 steps. It's not the LO
precision ( it's floating point in this one) that limits it but the size
of the FFT , the sample rate and thus the record length, that sets the
minimum FFT bin width . This one tunes in lumps of about 43Hz

Thank-you Brian, but what you have URLed is already at baseband, being VLF.


When moving from FORTRAN to C, the major difference (apart from the
nitty-gritty
of statement syntax) is that in FORTRAN, variables are always passed by
reference
(at least in FORTRAN '66 which I did 47 years ago) and in C you have the
choice of passing
by value or by reference.


Wrong on both counts. Fortran and C are both pass by value. Neither
defines pass by reference in their respective standards although some
recent Fortran compilers have an extension to pass by reference).

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

In rec.radio.amateur.equipment Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 2/6/2016 1:07 PM, gareth wrote:
"Brian Howie" wrote in message
...
In message , gareth
writes
Presumably those SDR rigs which do not work on the IF but
directly from antennae must have, separately from the DSP processor,
some semblance of a DDS generator (but without the final DAC) to
act as the equivalent of the VFO, for I cannot perceive that a
fractional-Hz
tuning rate could be achieved with machine code running in the DSP
processor?
I'm not an expert ,but I think what you're asking is " how is the local
oscillator generated" in a direct conversion SDR and "what determines its
resolution"
There is an example here, :-
http://www.radioelementi.it/public/saqrx.pdf
The "c" source code is here,which I can just about understand ( My
software background is FORTRAN and Matlab) :-
https://sites.google.com/site/sm6lkm/saqrx/
Softies shouldn't have a problem with it although I was able to mess about
with it and recompile it successfully
In this case the spectrum is dc to 22050Hz in 512 steps. It's not the LO
precision ( it's floating point in this one) that limits it but the size
of the FFT , the sample rate and thus the record length, that sets the
minimum FFT bin width . This one tunes in lumps of about 43Hz

Thank-you Brian, but what you have URLed is already at baseband, being VLF.


When moving from FORTRAN to C, the major difference (apart from the
nitty-gritty
of statement syntax) is that in FORTRAN, variables are always passed by
reference
(at least in FORTRAN '66 which I did 47 years ago) and in C you have the
choice of passing
by value or by reference.


Wrong on both counts. Fortran and C are both pass by value. Neither
defines pass by reference in their respective standards although some
recent Fortran compilers have an extension to pass by reference).

In C, if an arguement to a function is defined as a pointer, then the
local values are references to the storage locations of the original
arguments passed in and changes will change the original value. This
is called pass by reference.

In C, if an arguement to a function is not defined as a pointer,
then the local value is a copy of the original value which will not
be changed. This is called pass by value.



--
Jim Pennino

On 2/6/2016 4:07 PM, wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.equipment Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 2/6/2016 1:07 PM, gareth wrote:
"Brian Howie" wrote in message
...
In message , gareth
writes
Presumably those SDR rigs which do not work on the IF but
directly from antennae must have, separately from the DSP processor,
some semblance of a DDS generator (but without the final DAC) to
act as the equivalent of the VFO, for I cannot perceive that a
fractional-Hz
tuning rate could be achieved with machine code running in the DSP
processor?
I'm not an expert ,but I think what you're asking is " how is the local
oscillator generated" in a direct conversion SDR and "what determines its
resolution"
There is an example here, :-
http://www.radioelementi.it/public/saqrx.pdf
The "c" source code is here,which I can just about understand ( My
software background is FORTRAN and Matlab) :-
https://sites.google.com/site/sm6lkm/saqrx/
Softies shouldn't have a problem with it although I was able to mess about
with it and recompile it successfully
In this case the spectrum is dc to 22050Hz in 512 steps. It's not the LO
precision ( it's floating point in this one) that limits it but the size
of the FFT , the sample rate and thus the record length, that sets the
minimum FFT bin width . This one tunes in lumps of about 43Hz

Thank-you Brian, but what you have URLed is already at baseband, being VLF.


When moving from FORTRAN to C, the major difference (apart from the
nitty-gritty
of statement syntax) is that in FORTRAN, variables are always passed by
reference
(at least in FORTRAN '66 which I did 47 years ago) and in C you have the
choice of passing
by value or by reference.


Wrong on both counts. Fortran and C are both pass by value. Neither
defines pass by reference in their respective standards although some
recent Fortran compilers have an extension to pass by reference).

In C, if an arguement to a function is defined as a pointer, then the
local values are references to the storage locations of the original
arguments passed in and changes will change the original value. This
is called pass by reference.


In C, if the argument to a function is defined as a pointer, then a copy
of the pointer is passed. Of course, that copy still points at the same
place as the original, but it is still a copy.

It is not called pass by reference. The pointer must still be
dereference to get to the value.

C++ does have a pass by reference, but not C.

In C, if an arguement to a function is not defined as a pointer,
then the local value is a copy of the original value which will not
be changed. This is called pass by value.


Both are pass by value. The only difference is if you are passing the
variable or a pointer by value.

Once again you argue from a position of ignorance.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

On 2/7/2016 9:54 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 2/6/2016 4:07 PM, wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.equipment Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 2/6/2016 1:07 PM, gareth wrote:
"Brian Howie" wrote in message
...
In message , gareth
writes
Presumably those SDR rigs which do not work on the IF but
directly from antennae must have, separately from the DSP processor,
some semblance of a DDS generator (but without the final DAC) to
act as the equivalent of the VFO, for I cannot perceive that a
fractional-Hz
tuning rate could be achieved with machine code running in the DSP
processor?
I'm not an expert ,but I think what you're asking is " how is the local
oscillator generated" in a direct conversion SDR and "what determines its
resolution"
There is an example here, :-
http://www.radioelementi.it/public/saqrx.pdf
The "c" source code is here,which I can just about understand ( My
software background is FORTRAN and Matlab) :-
https://sites.google.com/site/sm6lkm/saqrx/
Softies shouldn't have a problem with it although I was able to mess about
with it and recompile it successfully
In this case the spectrum is dc to 22050Hz in 512 steps. It's not the LO
precision ( it's floating point in this one) that limits it but the size
of the FFT , the sample rate and thus the record length, that sets the
minimum FFT bin width . This one tunes in lumps of about 43Hz

Thank-you Brian, but what you have URLed is already at baseband, being VLF.


When moving from FORTRAN to C, the major difference (apart from the
nitty-gritty
of statement syntax) is that in FORTRAN, variables are always passed by
reference
(at least in FORTRAN '66 which I did 47 years ago) and in C you have the
choice of passing
by value or by reference.


Wrong on both counts. Fortran and C are both pass by value. Neither
defines pass by reference in their respective standards although some
recent Fortran compilers have an extension to pass by reference).

In C, if an arguement to a function is defined as a pointer, then the
local values are references to the storage locations of the original
arguments passed in and changes will change the original value. This
is called pass by reference.


In C, if the argument to a function is defined as a pointer, then a copy
of the pointer is passed. Of course, that copy still points at the same
place as the original, but it is still a copy.

And that is the definition of "pass by reference", passing a pointer (a
reference) to an object rather than its value. This "reference"
explains it to you in your own language.

http://courses.washington.edu/css342...32/passby.html


It is not called pass by reference. The pointer must still be
dereference to get to the value.

C++ does have a pass by reference, but not C.

In C, if an arguement to a function is not defined as a pointer,
then the local value is a copy of the original value which will not
be changed. This is called pass by value.


Both are pass by value. The only difference is if you are passing the
variable or a pointer by value.

And that is the whole difference between reference and value parameters.
Heck, I learned this in a chemistry class (FORTRAN) long before I was
in the EE department.

rude comment snipped

--

Rick