On 09/14/05 04:25 pm Dick tossed the following ingredients into the
ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

As someone who lives near Ocala and has to visit a lot of these gated
communities run by HOAs, I find most of them to be jerks who are only
interested in holding onto their perceived power at any cost. The fact
that it hurts others doesn't matter to them. Another HOA in the area
told a retired couple move out, or send their 17 year old grand daughter
away after she lost both of her parents in an accident. She had a few
months till she was to graduate from high school and no other relatives
but it didn't matter to the HOA. People like that are scum, no matter
how expensive their home, or what they drive.

Its just too damn bad you can't tar and feather them and then run
them out of town, like the good old days! ;-)

I am actually quite peaceable and believe in living and letting live in most
cases. Who I allow in my home is up to me and whom I refuse entry is not
the purvey of HOA Nazis. And, again, it is why I chose an older home
(1956) with plenty of room, almost ZERO crime, and NO
HOA's

That's why it is important to READ the CC&R's before you move into a
housing development with an HOA. If you have read them, and move in
anyway, you have no one to complain to except yourself. One good way
to temper what you refer to as HOA Nazis is to become a board member
yourself and do something about it. Having been an HOA board member,
I was disgusted with all the constant complainers at the meetings, but
not one of them was willing to lift a finger to help. Some people
apparently were just born to complain. HOA's can serve a useful
function, unless you are the type that enjoys living on a street with
dozens of junk cars that don't run, and weeds 4-feet high. People
agree to have HOA's so they can have a reasonably nice area in which
to live and raise their children. The protection of property values
is a prime consideration. No one forces someone to live in an area
with a HOA. From what I have seen, in several cities, most are not
as restrictive as those given in these examples.

It's all very well to tell people not to buy houses with CC&Rs and HOAs,
but probably anything recent (last 20 years or so) has them. I've read
that the financial institutions that fund the developments insist on
them; they may not dictate every detail, but I think there are "model
rules" around that the developers copy, and these rules just about
require an application in triplicate 3 months in advance before you can
get permission to sneeze.

Perce

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:43:06 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:
It's all very well to tell people not to buy houses with CC&Rs and HOAs,
but probably anything recent (last 20 years or so) has them. I've read
that the financial institutions that fund the developments insist on
them; they may not dictate every detail, but I think there are "model
rules" around that the developers copy, and these rules just about
require an application in triplicate 3 months in advance before you can
get permission to sneeze.

Perce

CC&R's are very common today, but HOA's are far less common.
Typically, if you buy in a development by one or several builders, the
builders will create CC&R's (copied usually as you stated) primarily
to protect themselves. They don't want someone trashing the
neighborhood while they are attempting to sell new homes. It's still
very possible to buy land outside the cities where you can have a
custom home built without CC&R's. I have read CC&R's ad nauseam and
most of them are very reasonable in their requirements. In our area,
they deal primarily with things like property line setbacks, minimum
square footage, overall height, height of fences, minimum landscaping,
junk cars, etc. All things that most people would like to see some
degree of control over to protect the value of their property. If you
don't have an HOA, you are forced to sue someone to enforce the
CC&R's. Even with an HOA sometimes that becomes necessary, but then
the legal fees come out of the funds of the association, and not
directly out of your pocket.

Dick

Probably the best test is to determine how much money the HOA is
collecting. If they collect $100 per home for road maintenance, there is
little chance that they will accumulate a pot of money to hire lawyers
over a small infraction.On the other hand, if the neighborhood is full
of lawyers, or is collecting $1200 year per home for "general
maintenance" - watch out!

I found a neighborhood where the CC&R's essentially had a loophole
whereby if you built something that was not approved by the
architectural control committee (ACC) , and the ACC did not take action
(injunction) for 30 days, it was grandfathered. In other words, get it
built fast and keep a low profile for 30 days.

Finally, if you buy a 2 acre wooded lot, chances are nobody will see
what you are doing and will leave you alone.


Dick wrote:

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:43:06 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:


It's all very well to tell people not to buy houses with CC&Rs and HOAs,
but probably anything recent (last 20 years or so) has them. I've read
that the financial institutions that fund the developments insist on
them; they may not dictate every detail, but I think there are "model
rules" around that the developers copy, and these rules just about
require an application in triplicate 3 months in advance before you can
get permission to sneeze.

Perce



CC&R's are very common today, but HOA's are far less common.
Typically, if you buy in a development by one or several builders, the
builders will create CC&R's (copied usually as you stated) primarily
to protect themselves. They don't want someone trashing the
neighborhood while they are attempting to sell new homes. It's still
very possible to buy land outside the cities where you can have a
custom home built without CC&R's. I have read CC&R's ad nauseam and
most of them are very reasonable in their requirements. In our area,
they deal primarily with things like property line setbacks, minimum
square footage, overall height, height of fences, minimum landscaping,
junk cars, etc. All things that most people would like to see some
degree of control over to protect the value of their property. If you
don't have an HOA, you are forced to sue someone to enforce the
CC&R's. Even with an HOA sometimes that becomes necessary, but then
the legal fees come out of the funds of the association, and not
directly out of your pocket.

Dick



--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"

The Lost Deep Thoughts By: Jack Handey
Before a mad scientist goes mad, there's probably a time
when he's only partially mad. And this is the time when he's
going to throw his best parties.

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:43:06 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

On 09/14/05 04:25 pm Dick tossed the following ingredients into the
ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

As someone who lives near Ocala and has to visit a lot of these gated
communities run by HOAs, I find most of them to be jerks who are only
interested in holding onto their perceived power at any cost. The fact
that it hurts others doesn't matter to them. Another HOA in the area
told a retired couple move out, or send their 17 year old grand daughter
away after she lost both of her parents in an accident. She had a few
months till she was to graduate from high school and no other relatives
but it didn't matter to the HOA. People like that are scum, no matter
how expensive their home, or what they drive.

Its just too damn bad you can't tar and feather them and then run
them out of town, like the good old days! ;-)

I am actually quite peaceable and believe in living and letting live in most
cases. Who I allow in my home is up to me and whom I refuse entry is not
the purvey of HOA Nazis. And, again, it is why I chose an older home
(1956) with plenty of room, almost ZERO crime, and NO
HOA's

That's why it is important to READ the CC&R's before you move into a
housing development with an HOA. If you have read them, and move in
anyway, you have no one to complain to except yourself. One good way
to temper what you refer to as HOA Nazis is to become a board member
yourself and do something about it. Having been an HOA board member,
I was disgusted with all the constant complainers at the meetings, but
not one of them was willing to lift a finger to help. Some people
apparently were just born to complain. HOA's can serve a useful
function, unless you are the type that enjoys living on a street with
dozens of junk cars that don't run, and weeds 4-feet high. People
agree to have HOA's so they can have a reasonably nice area in which
to live and raise their children. The protection of property values
is a prime consideration. No one forces someone to live in an area
with a HOA. From what I have seen, in several cities, most are not
as restrictive as those given in these examples.

It's all very well to tell people not to buy houses with CC&Rs and HOAs,
but probably anything recent (last 20 years or so) has them. I've read
that the financial institutions that fund the developments insist on
them; they may not dictate every detail, but I think there are "model
rules" around that the developers copy, and these rules just about
require an application in triplicate 3 months in advance before you can
get permission to sneeze.

Perce

And twelve months advaance notice to stay at home after having
a baby.