Too_Many_Tools wrote:
I consider it to be a faulty standard.

Do you remember the early portable CD digital audio players?

Remember the skipping?

Note that manufacturers had to build buffering and better pickups to
take care of the problem.

Same evolution with video.

Kids are in the back of the SUV/RV watching digital
televison...dropouts, ghosting, etc....guess what..manufacturers will
be forced to provide the service the customer demands.

Until then I and many others won't be spending money on DTV.

TMT

Portable and mobile are a big deal and will be big business in most
countries. The recent IBC show in Amsterdam was 20% bigger than last
year mostly because of the interest in mobile DTV.

In the US we do have two ventures both targeting cell phone DTV,
Qualcomm and Crown Castle but soon you will hear of other ventures
targeting vehicles, laptops and other larger screens than cell phones.

Auctions to be held in 2008 will allow more such DTV that works mobile
and portable. Stay tuned. The disastrous DTV transition in the US has
held back progress but it will soon be of little interest as new
broadcasters come on line who do care about OTA DTV broadcasting unlike
the current broadcasters who live and die by must carry over cable.

Bob Miller

On 28 Oct 2005 19:45:37 -0700, "
wrote:

The DTV standard for over the air broadcasts requires a good and stable
incoming signal from the antenna. In the RV if you are parked and can
orient the antenna you should be fine. If you want to use it while
driving, it is not going to work. There will be too much 'ghosting' of
the incoming digital signal and the tuners won't handle it well.

I am not certain there will ever be a market segment for what you are
searching.


It may be a few years before technology allows a cheap portable ATSC
TV, but it will happen. I think it's foolish to think people will
just stop wanting portable TVs because they're digital now. People
like their NTSC portable color TVs even though you can't get a very
good color picture most of the time and the screens are too small to
really enjoy it. It's certain that people won't want NTSC portables
after they stop NTSC broadcasting. Using a battery portable TV with
an AC powered receiver box makes about as much sense as using a
walkman with a rack component CD player.
Andy Cuffe

-- Use this address until 12/31/2005

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On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:07:30 GMT, Wes Newell
wrote:



I've looked all over for about a 20" HDTV with builkt in tuner and came up
empty, so I just decided to order an HDTV tuner for my PC. It's a heck of
lot cheaper too. This would seem to be a perfect solution for an RV.

A few years ago I had a JVC 'multimedia' TV that was basically a 20"
TV that could also sync to VGA/SVGA. At the time it was just a TV
that also made a really bad computer monitor, but one of those would
be great now. I wish I had saved it instead of selling it.
Andy Cuffe

-- Use this address until 12/31/2005

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Andy Cuffe wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:07:30 GMT, Wes Newell
wrote:



I've looked all over for about a 20" HDTV with builkt in tuner and came up
empty, so I just decided to order an HDTV tuner for my PC. It's a heck of
lot cheaper too. This would seem to be a perfect solution for an RV.


A few years ago I had a JVC 'multimedia' TV that was basically a 20"
TV that could also sync to VGA/SVGA. At the time it was just a TV
that also made a really bad computer monitor, but one of those would
be great now. I wish I had saved it instead of selling it.
Andy Cuffe


We had several of those at work for compatibility testing, IIRC every
one of them failed.

I would agree....would you want your cell phone to come with a cord
that you had to plug into a stationary socket before using it?

HDTV will not be a replacement for NTSC until it does everything that
NTSC does now...everything.

And the public will not accept it until it does everything that it
replaces.

NTSC will be with us longer than anyone wants to admit.

TMT

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 08:01:33 GMT, James Sweet
wrote:

A few years ago I had a JVC 'multimedia' TV that was basically a 20"
TV that could also sync to VGA/SVGA. At the time it was just a TV
that also made a really bad computer monitor, but one of those would
be great now. I wish I had saved it instead of selling it.
Andy Cuffe


We had several of those at work for compatibility testing, IIRC every
one of them failed.

I repaired a HV shutdown problem with the one I had. I can't remember
what caused it, but it was something minor.
Andy Cuffe

-- Use this address until 12/31/2005

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"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com...
I would agree....would you want your cell phone to come with a cord
that you had to plug into a stationary socket before using it?

HDTV will not be a replacement for NTSC until it does everything that
NTSC does now...everything.

And the public will not accept it until it does everything that it
replaces.

NTSC will be with us longer than anyone wants to admit.

I'd like to believe that, but I'm afraid that the FCC has other ideas.

I know I won't be buying an HDTV receiver any time soon, they're still WAY
out of my budget. I can buy a 27" NTSC set that looks just fine for what's
being broadcast for $175, it's 10x to 12x that for the cheapest HDTV ready
(without the HDTV tuner) set. Damn if I'll pay more than a week's wages for
a TV set, there's just nothing worth that kind of scratch to WATCH on them.

Andy Cuffe wrote:
On 28 Oct 2005 19:45:37 -0700, "
wrote:


The DTV standard for over the air broadcasts requires a good and stable
incoming signal from the antenna. In the RV if you are parked and can
orient the antenna you should be fine. If you want to use it while
driving, it is not going to work. There will be too much 'ghosting' of
the incoming digital signal and the tuners won't handle it well.

I am not certain there will ever be a market segment for what you are
searching.



It may be a few years before technology allows a cheap portable ATSC
TV, but it will happen. I think it's foolish to think people will
just stop wanting portable TVs because they're digital now. People
like their NTSC portable color TVs even though you can't get a very
good color picture most of the time and the screens are too small to
really enjoy it. It's certain that people won't want NTSC portables
after they stop NTSC broadcasting. Using a battery portable TV with
an AC powered receiver box makes about as much sense as using a
walkman with a rack component CD player.
Andy Cuffe

-- Use this address until 12/31/2005

-- Use this address after 12/31/2005

Will not happen! Over the next few years the standard for
portable/mobile will be set by broadcasters like Qualcomm, Crown Castle
and others all of which will be using COFDM based modulations that will
be extremely robust.

Anyone trying to use a junk modulation like 8-VSB would be crazy and
whatever product they tried to sell would be laughed off the market.

This is what COFDM can do in a market like New York City. 8-VSB still
does not work in New York even for fixed receivers on rooftops with
fancy powered and rotored antennas let alone mobile with half inch
antennas like Qualcomm and Crown Castle will offer.

www.viacel.com/bob.wmv

Japan will start a mobile COFDM cell phone service in a few months. The
antenna is an inch at best.

http://www.dibeg.org/news/news-4/news-e4.htm#dn058e

Bob Miller

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 07:44:57 +0900, "Brenda Ann"
wrote:


I know I won't be buying an HDTV receiver any time soon, they're still WAY
out of my budget. I can buy a 27" NTSC set that looks just fine for what's
being broadcast for $175, it's 10x to 12x that for the cheapest HDTV ready
(without the HDTV tuner) set. Damn if I'll pay more than a week's wages for
a TV set, there's just nothing worth that kind of scratch to WATCH on them.



HDTVs are actually a LOT cheaper than that now. You can get a 27ish
Sanyo set with a built in ATSC tuner for about $450 now. Not top
quality, but unless Sanyo is farming out manufacturing to Durabrand it
should be decent.
Andy Cuffe

-- Use this address until 12/31/2005

-- Use this address after 12/31/2005

"Andy Cuffe" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 07:44:57 +0900, "Brenda Ann"
wrote:


I know I won't be buying an HDTV receiver any time soon, they're still WAY
out of my budget. I can buy a 27" NTSC set that looks just fine for what's
being broadcast for $175, it's 10x to 12x that for the cheapest HDTV ready
(without the HDTV tuner) set. Damn if I'll pay more than a week's wages
for
a TV set, there's just nothing worth that kind of scratch to WATCH on
them.



HDTVs are actually a LOT cheaper than that now. You can get a 27ish
Sanyo set with a built in ATSC tuner for about $450 now. Not top
quality, but unless Sanyo is farming out manufacturing to Durabrand it
should be decent.


Sure don't have anything like that available at our PX or through AAFES
Online. Cheapest digital ready TV we have access to is $1000, 24" screen,
and has no digital tuner even available for it yet.